Ignore this at your peril: The USA is going down

[wayneL]

So black people are born bad and so cops are conditioned to kill them. Just my opinion.

You're related to Kathy Newman, aren't you?

The data shows they commit more crime per capita. But there may be reasons for that, uncorrelated to genetics... Perhaps there is a viscous cycle at play.

Candice Owens (a black woman) has some interesting views on that.

 

[ducati916]

A further document to peruse (oops, too large). From this document we have this: http://aclu-co.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/KYR-Colorado.pdf

So as previously stated, the YM could have simply walked away had he exercised his right to do so.

The importance of this is that, because he did not do so, his initial conversation was by consent. If the conversation is by consent, then the Officer need not demonstrate 'reasonable suspicion': he can simply ask any questions that he wishes to.

From the initial contact:

Right up to this point, the Officer remains within his legal rights to ask for a date of birth. The contact was (legally) by consent.

Therefore the findings of the Police Inquiry and the Review of that inquiry missed this important point. As I said previously, an experienced Attorney would have identified this error immediately. I suspect that this was the foundation for the Officer's later claim against the City and why they settled paying him out. Their case was significantly flawed.

jog on
duc

 

[aus_trader]

But while you have the police being attacked by a sector of society, that sector will always be dealt with differently, human nature.

I think this is not a good assumption mate. I am not a black/aboriginal/coloured person, but we have to be careful to just assume that. There may be higher crimes based on stats, but Police needs to be trained to handle that perhaps with more defence mechanisms pepper sprays / tasers etc. At no circumstances should they have the right to use violence or as Knobby22 pointed out below, allowed to suffocate the life out of a person with a knee on top of their neck.

So black people are born bad and so cops are conditioned to kill them. Just my opinion.

 

[Knobby22]

You're related to Kathy Newman, aren't you?

The data shows they commit more crime per capita. But there may be reasons for that, uncorrelated to genetics... Perhaps there is a viscous cycle at play.

Candice Owens (a black woman) has some interesting views on that.

Yes, obviously. I was just summarising SP posts.

The next step is how do you break the cycle? You can see the right in the USA is now starting to take this a bit seriously, there are many Republicans including Senators and even the football league starting to look at it differently.

I think the Martin Luther King death was a watershed that led to many improvements and this is another opportunity. It just requires some leadership.

I really think the USA can come out of this stronger than ever but it doesn't need some of the excuses to stop this happening.

 

[SirRumpole]

So black people are born bad and so cops are conditioned to kill them. Just my opinion.

Just my opinion but I'm pessimistic that there will ever be a solution to our race relations issue, the reason being that there will always be a lingering resentment by some aboriginals to the mere presence of white men in Australia and this will continue regardless of what is done for them. Indigenous people already get twice the welfare per person that others get and its still not enough.

This resentment leads to a lack of respect for white laws, people and property and will therefore lead to higher crime rates among indigenous people and therefore higher incarceration rates. This situation will be exploited by various groups for their own agendas and it's going to lead to a day where if police arrest a black person for any crime for good reason they will be labelled racist and the "system" will be blamed rather than the perpetrator who obviously had a choice not to do the crime in the first place.

 

[Knobby22]

Not sure why I can't quote. SirRumpole.
We can do a lot better. I heard some aboriginal elders on ABC national say we are treating it all wrong. They want welfare cut and the money used to create industries with real jobs, not painting.

They were saying the victim mentality is being used by some of their community for gain but it is damaging them.

We really need a rethink and that's on both sides.

 

[SirRumpole]

Not sure why I can't quote. SirRumpole.
We can do a lot better. I heard some aboriginal elders on ABC national say we are treating it all wrong. They want welfare cut and the money used to create industries with real jobs, not painting.

They were saying the victim mentality is being used by some of their community for gain but it is damaging them.

We really need a rethink and that's on both sides.

Yes, I can agree on that.

 

[sptrawler]

I think this is not a good assumption mate. I am not a black/aboriginal/coloured person, but we have to be careful to just assume that. There may be higher crimes based on stats, but Police needs to be trained to handle that perhaps with more defence mechanisms pepper sprays / tasers etc. At no circumstances should they have the right to use violence or as Knobby22 pointed out below, allowed to suffocate the life out of a person with a knee on top of their neck.

Absolutely, but there is two sides to it, only one is getting any attention.

 

[sptrawler]

Not sure why I can't quote. SirRumpole.
We can do a lot better. I heard some aboriginal elders on ABC national say we are treating it all wrong. They want welfare cut and the money used to create industries with real jobs, not painting.

They were saying the victim mentality is being used by some of their community for gain but it is damaging them.

We really need a rethink and that's on both sides.

There has been many attempts to encourage the aboriginal self management, the emu and orange farms at Wiluna come to mind, unfortunately very few succeed.
It doesnt mean it cant be successful, it just requires a weaning off the welfare system, but that is a difficult one not only for the aboriginals.
Anyway I wouldnt mind a dollar, for everytime these issues have been discussed and no matter how much money is thrown at it, it is never resolved.

 

[qldfrog]

There is a whole industry feeding on aborigines wekfare from black owners of liquor stores to white lawyer milking native title.
This is what you get when you institutionalize racism, in this case supposedly positively by giving more to individuals based on their genes/skin darkness
A culture of dependency losers and corruption with no hope for kids there

 

[Klogg]

Not sure why I can't quote. SirRumpole.
We can do a lot better. I heard some aboriginal elders on ABC national say we are treating it all wrong. They want welfare cut and the money used to create industries with real jobs, not painting.

They were saying the victim mentality is being used by some of their community for gain but it is damaging them.

We really need a rethink and that's on both sides.

They're very smart elders. That I can get behind.

What happened to their ancestors was absolutely horrible. But playing the victim card makes it worse - as these wise people suggest.

 

[wayneL]

There is a whole industry feeding on aborigines wekfare from black owners of liquor stores to white lawyer milking native title.
This is what you get when you institutionalize racism, in this case supposedly positively by giving more to individuals based on their genes/skin darkness
A culture of dependency losers and corruption with no hope for kids there

Correct. It is the soft racism of low expectations and as you say, snouts in troughs.

 

[macca]

What a group of excellent posts about "racism" in OZ.

Many elders are now speaking out about entrenched victim hood and divisions that result from it, my Elder friend has been speaking about this for 30 years.

He was kicked off the local land council twenty years ago for being a stirrer, his crime was to say that he did not want his kids and grandkids sitting around under a tree living on the dole.

He wanted to establish a training program for teenagers to have modern skills to get proper employment in todays world

About 8 years ago they decided he was right after all and invited him back as a senior elder.

Before 1967 all the Aboriginal adults I knew had a job working right along side white people. Of three crews one had a black foreman, he was the boss and if you did not like taking orders from a black fella then you got sacked.

Then along come "sit down money" and not surprisingly most took it and sat down. This has been the way of many for the past 50 years, two complete generations with no need to work.

Social workers talk of problems created in white society by second generation unemployed, add to that the "victimhood" things and we now have a toxic mix.

This is what the Aboriginal reformist elders have to break to encourage the next generation to become part of todays world, not sit back and complain.

It is a massive task, money won't fix it, that has been tried, billions have been spent and it is in fact worse now than before IMO

I think all we can do is encourage reformist Elders to continue their battle

 

[aus_trader]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/worl...intervene-in-case/ar-BB15cvRn?ocid=spartanntp

A snippet of the above article:

 

[joeno]

Given WWIII is brewing we should prob step back, cool down and mind each other's business and stfu for a year.

China has a dictator in charge keen on ruling for life.
India has a hindu fundamentalist in charge keen on expelling all Muslims.
North Korea has a Marvel supervillain who likes nuclear rockets.
Russia has Stalin 2.0 in charge.
The US has "all the above". Except the people are in charge. ahahahaha

 

[aus_trader]

I don't think there is any real rivalry between nations like previous WW's. More like trade wars and showing off, political bluff mostly.

I agree US may see some form of transformation though... some sort of revolution perhaps.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

I don't think there is any real rivalry between nations like previous WW's. More like trade wars and showing off, political bluff mostly.

I agree US may see some form of transformation though... some sort of revolution perhaps.

I don't see another WW either, yet a significant decline in US economic power is almost a certainty.

 

[aus_trader]

I don't see another WW either, yet a significant decline in US economic power is almost a certainty.

Yes, that's what's more likely.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't see another WW either, yet a significant decline in US economic power is almost a certainty.

I can't see any country winning out of the epidemic, the world is so inter related these days that when the consumers (the West) go down, so do the producers (the East).

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

I can't see any country winning out of the epidemic, the world is so inter related these days that when the consumers (the West) go down, so do the producers (the East).

Well we are all jostling for a better position now, country wise; irrespective of West or East positioning or alliance. A major shock to the global order has occurred with this pandemic, however I think it will reinforce and accelerate the pre-virus global economic trajectory rather than divert or slow it.