Ignore this at your peril: The USA is going down

[wayneL]

OK, there is a little self interest in it as well.

I hate to see ourselves including myself in lockdown and restrictions again. So the comment about the fear of spiking virus infections... undoing all the good we've done to bring it under control.

It will be very interesting to see what happens in that regard

 

[sptrawler]

It will be very interesting to see what happens in that regard

It will highlight some pretty self righteous, self indulgent behaviour, but that is todays Australia.

 

[aus_trader]

I'll try and be a bit more optimistic about the outcome. Is the rally to be held mainly in NSW ? If so they have almost zero cases, so all will be OK after the rally I hope, with no re-infections...

 

[sptrawler]

I just thought of something regarding discrimination, people discriminate against other people because of their culture and colours, the argument is that the descrimination may be because of different values and morals not colour or culture.
Well in a way this virus has brought about another discrimination, a descrimination in mode of travel, ships are going to be shunned because of the media coverage of the outbreaks onboard.
But in reality is there any greater chance of contracting the desease on a ship or a plane?
Just a thought.

 

[aus_trader]

But in reality is there any greater chance of contracting the desease on a ship or a plane?
Just a thought.

You'd think so wouldn't ya ? I don't have any stats or anything but it's very hard to keep a social distance in a cruise ship or in economy class on a plane.

 

[ducati916]

The police officer resigned and the City of Boulder agreed to settle all claims made by the student.
The independent review confirmed violations of BPD Rules 5 and 8, namely that the officer took actions which he "… reasonably should know is not in accordance with the law;” and, he failed to “use reasonable judgment and refrain from conduct which reflects unfavorably on the department,” thereby causing embarrassment to the department, compromising its reputation and impairing its credibility.
In plain English all his actions were determined to be unlawful.
You might ask how an officer with 15 years experience could get it so wrong. The answer lies in police statistics which do not lie.

So where is the link to the 'Independent Review'. Or attach it to your post. Either/or works for me.


jog on
duc

 

[ducati916]

So where is the link to the 'Independent Review'. Or attach it to your post. Either/or works for me.


jog on
duc

Found it.

Attached.

jog on
duc

 

[qldfrog]

use reasonable judgment and refrain from conduct which reflects unfavorably on the department,”
Isn't it terrible?.it means this week any police arresting ANY person of colour would be sackable
Murderer and rioter included

 

[ducati916]

use reasonable judgment and refrain from conduct which reflects unfavorably on the department,”
Isn't it terrible?.it means this week any police arresting ANY person of colour would be sackable
Murderer and rioter included

As usual (with these types of inquiries) the devil is in the detail.

The Officer's lawyer negotiated a settlement with the city. Now, if the Officer had been culpable pursuant to Regulations 5 and 8 and it was clearly proven, it is likely that no such settlement would have taken place. Rather (as per department policy) simply a disciplinary process would have been implemented. This could have resulted in his dismissal.

That he resigned with an undisclosed settlement indicates all is not as it seems. The clues are contained within the Review.

jog on
duc

 

[qldfrog]

As usual (with these types of inquiries) the devil is in the detail.

The Officer's lawyer negotiated a settlement with the city. Now, if the Officer had been culpable pursuant to Regulations 5 and 8 and it was clearly proven, it is likely that no such settlement would have taken place. Rather (as per department policy) simply a disciplinary process would have been implemented. This could have resulted in his dismissal.

That he resigned with an undisclosed settlement indicates all is not as it seems. The clues are contained within the Review.

jog on
duc

Good on him.
Have a great week end

 

[rederob]

That he resigned with an undisclosed settlement indicates all is not as it seems. The clues are contained within the Review.

At no point did you explain how the officer could have acted reasonably, nor in accordance with law. The BPD's Professional Standards Unit determined that he did neither.
You appear to believe you knew better but consistently could not offer reasons. Logic is about reasoning.
A reasonable perspective is also "objective" and the PSU determined that an objective viewer would have seen in the first few minutes that the officer misjudged reasonable suspicion. I noted your drawn-out ramblings which failed in that regard.

So let's get to the point here. People do not normally admit they are racists, or that they discriminate on any particular grounds. Racism is usually more subtle and can be unwittingly systemic. In this instance we saw a very experienced police officer acting unreasonably, and consistently unlawfully, without apparent explanation. But is it not ironic that it took an elderly white male only a few moments to work out an explanation was likely racial profiling?

Racism is not one of those things that can be "proven" in the conventional sense. We link it to a pattern of behaviour that is not consistent with societal norms. In this case we were being asked to believe that if you saw from 100 metres away a black person with a hoodie sitting down and minding their business that it was immediately suspicious. Feel free to test your thoughts on that idea as you also wonder your reaction had you instead seen a white male wearing a suit.

 

[ducati916]

1. At no point did you explain how the officer could have acted reasonably, nor in accordance with law.

2. The BPD's Professional Standards Unit determined that he did neither.

3. You appear to believe you knew better but consistently could not offer reasons. Logic is about reasoning.

4. A reasonable perspective is also "objective" and the PSU determined that an objective viewer would have seen in the first few minutes that the officer misjudged reasonable suspicion. I noted your drawn-out ramblings which failed in that regard.

1. I could simply repost previously posted law, evidence, etc. and thereby disprove your assertion. However clearly a waste of time as you simply choose to ignore the facts placed in front of you. That's fine, people will judge for themselves the value contained in 'your opinion'.

2. Correct. However, as I intimated, all is not as it seems.

3. See [1] above.

4. As stated, not all is as it appears.

jog on
duc

 

[rederob]

1. I could simply repost previously posted law, evidence, etc. and thereby disprove your assertion. However clearly a waste of time as you simply choose to ignore the facts placed in front of you. That's fine, people will judge for themselves the value contained in 'your opinion'.

The BPD PSU has a grasp of law which you consistently failed to understand, and still seem to want to insist you know better.
You are accomplished at misunderstanding the blindingly obvious.
Furthermore, I never ventured my "opinion," and what you or anyone else chooses to believe is not relevant to me. I commented principally on what constituted reasonable and lawful actions.
To put an end to the type of behaviours that are symptomatic of racism we need to address the causes and ensure that inappropriate law enforcement practices such as those used against George Floyd are forbidden. Let's hope the protests in America gain traction in those regards.

 

[ducati916]

1. The BPD PSU has a grasp of law which you consistently failed to understand, and still seem to want to insist you know better.

2. You are accomplished at misunderstanding the blindingly obvious.

3. Furthermore, I never ventured my "opinion," and what you or anyone else chooses to believe is not relevant to me. I commented principally on what constituted reasonable and lawful actions.

4. To put an end to the type of behaviours that are symptomatic of racism we need to address the causes and ensure that inappropriate law enforcement practices such as those used against George Floyd are forbidden. Let's hope the protests in America gain traction in those regards.

1. Well we shall see.

2. Opinion. Irrelevant.

3. As I said, you will be judged by others on your content. If they find your opinion valuable, they will continue to read your opinion and give it weight.

4. Agreed. However the starting point is to recognise legitimate racism from something that is not racism.

jog on
duc

 

[ducati916]

From the Report:

A Mr Troyer was the lead: Prosecutor 14yrs District Attorney 2yrs. Clearly well qualified. The Review looked at a substantial volume of evidence and arrived at 4 conclusions. The relevant evidence:

So far, so good.

The Officer then contacts the young man (YM). No major issues to this point. Now had the YM asked 'Am I free to leave', at that point, if the answer was yes, he could legally have walked away. If the answer was no, now he is being legally detained and subject to the law (see below): it is incumbent upon the YM to ask. Possibly he did not know. Ignorance of the law, is as they say, no defence.

The report does not consider this point. Why not? Legally it is an important point (for both parties) as it defines their legal relationship from this point moving forward.

This is a lacuna within the Report that any experienced defence Attorney would challenge immediately.

More to follow. Stay tuned for the next thrilling instalment.

jog on
duv

 

[frugal.rock]

But in reality is there any greater chance of contracting the desease on a ship or a plane?
Just a thought.

AEI environmental systems...

 

[sptrawler]

You'd think so wouldn't ya ? I don't have any stats or anything but it's very hard to keep a social distance in a cruise ship or in economy class on a plane.

Yes , but what I'm getting at, it is just another example of conditioned response.
I think a lot of the blame is being attributed on the wrong cause, the blame is being directed based on colour discrimination, when in fact I think a lot can be attributed to high incidence of black representation in crime related incidences.
This in turn causes a conditioned response by police, if the crime rate attributed to blacks dropped, I'm sure the reaction of the public and police would change, only my opinion.
But while you have the police being attacked by a sector of society, that sector will always be dealt with differently, human nature.
Just my opinion.

 

[Knobby22]

Yes , but what I'm getting at, it is just another example of conditioned response.
I think a lot of the blame is being attributed on the wrong cause, the blame is being directed based on colour discrimination, when in fact I think a lot can be attributed to high incidence of black representation in crime related incidences.
This in turn causes a conditioned response by police, if the crime rate attributed to blacks dropped, I'm sure the reaction of the public and police would change, only my opinion.
But while you have the police being attacked by a sector of society, that sector will always be dealt with differently, human nature.
Just my opinion.

So black people are born bad and so cops are conditioned to kill them. Just my opinion.

 

[frugal.rock]

Well, some sanity prevailed yesterday in NSW with a last minute appeal approved for the BLM rally protest for Sydney.
If not approved, legislation dictates that it probably would have gotten very ugly, probably forcing the judge's hand.
As said, we can only hope that the virus was as well behaved as the protesters.
I note, the press showed some ugliness by protesters after dark, a group of youngsters at Central Station who clearly had other issues.
Their behaviour mars the efforts of all the peaceful demonstrations.
Riot police defrayed the situation.

F.Rock

 

[sptrawler]

So black people are born bad and so cops are conditioned to kill them. Just my opinion.

That is going from the sublime, to the ridiculous, but to be expected.