Ignore this at your peril: The USA is going down

[rederob]

1. I don't need to explain anything. Why is that? Because:

You have the LAW as stated.

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Then you have the case law, explaining, defining, and providing an interpretation of the statutory law for you:

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Then you have the evidence: these are the un-challenged facts.

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Then you ask given the evidence: are the Officer's actions reasonable:

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The conclusion can only be from applying the law to the facts that the Officer's actions were lawful. Therefore your issue:

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Is answered: the Officer's actions were lawful: therefore racism cannot occur.

2. Of course he can. The individual was seen sitting behind the building. He never denied this. There were Trespassing sign(s). This was never denied or challenged. By detaining the individual and ascertaining whether that individual has the legal right to be on the property in question, the Officer can very easily determine whether a crime had been committed. To ascertain that information however, the Officer needs to ask questions and seek confirmation (see above) wherever possible.

3. Who's talking about arrest. We are talking about your issue of racism. You seem unable to stay on topic.

4. Another attempt to divert the conversation away from the issue: which is:

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Are the Officer's actions lawful with regard to your allegation of racism.

Or do you want to modify your allegation to include new allegations that so far (you claim) include: false claims, dishonesty, etc. In other words you want to change boats mid-stream.

jog on
duc

You are really confused about what is at issue.
No action he took was lawful.
Instead, every element of the officer's interaction was textbook racism playing out.
The independent review noted "he erred in believing he had reasonable suspicion that a trespass was occurring" so the "pedestrian stop" (as he called it in) was unsound.
That's somewhat unsurprising except, perhaps, to a person who has no concept of what is reasonable.

 

[frugal.rock]

G'day Rob n Duc,
Can we please drop it?
Agree to disagree etc?
Much obliged old chaps.

I went out of my way to avoid police RBT last night, just wasn't in the mood.

(The stupid thing about the event, just before, I nearly T boned some clown driving out of the pub car park, who then disappeared up a side street.)

Turned off before the bend where they were sitting. I said to my daughter, "you watch, they will come and chase me".
Sure enough, a speeding car fly's up behind me, flashing lights get turned on.
I pulled over. Breath tested.
There was no doubt, the copper had to speed to catch up, and did so without flashing lights/ sirens.
Where I turned off, you can't directly see the police, just a bit of reflection of their lights.

Traffic laws are a big area that coppers flaunt. Who is going to stop and fine a uniformed copper in a cop car for speeding outside of their law?
The flaunting of rules by cops is the issue worldwide.
Race, sex, religion etc are the catalysts for the flaunting. We are seeing a bunch of images lately in the news calling out this behaviour.

Closer to the subject at hand...

Well, the unemployment figures released Thursday for the US had the figures pegged at 20%, figure came in around 14%.
That must have some influence on the current bounce/trend, IE, encouraging news?

F.Rick

 

[ducati916]

1. You are really confused about what is at issue.

2. No action he took was lawful.

3. Instead, every element of the officer's interaction was textbook racism playing out.

4. The independent review noted "he erred in believing he had reasonable suspicion that a trespass was occurring" so the "pedestrian stop" (as he called it in) was unsound.

5. That's somewhat unsurprising except, perhaps, to a person who has no concept of what is reasonable.

1. What is at issue is:

2. Already demonstrated a number of times. Apart from your opinion which is irrelevant, what do you have? Nothing so far.

3. Your opinion. Irrelevant.

4. Ahhh. Something new and concrete. Where is the review? Post it up.

5. The law defined what is reasonable in this context. You don't like the law as it stands? Irrelevant.

jog on
duc

 

[ducati916]

G'day Rob n Duc,
Can we please drop it?
Agree to disagree etc?
Much obliged old chaps.


F.Rick

Unfortunately it is just one of those things that will need to play out. You'll just have to place us on ignore or get Joe to move us to the sin bin.


jog on
duc

 

[frugal.rock]

Unfortunately it is just one of those things that will need to play out. You'll just have to place us on ignore or get Joe to move us to the sin bin.

jog on
duc

Unless an impartial jury makes a determination, the argument goes nowhere !

 

[SirRumpole]

Did this student case ever go to court ? What was the result ?

Sorry I don't have time to go through it all.

 

[ducati916]

Unless an impartial jury makes a determination, the argument goes nowhere !

That is one way to look at it.
The other way is simply evaluate the arguments put forward to date.

jog on
duc

 

[ducati916]

Did this student case ever go to court ? What was the result ?

Sorry I don't have time to go through it all.

No idea.

However, apparently there is an independent review. Just waiting for it to be posted up. That may shed further light on the matter.

jog on
duc

 

[qldfrog]

No idea.

However, apparently there is an independent review. Just waiting for it to be posted up. That may shed further light on the matter.

jog on
duc

The trouble i see with your determination in answering to Rederob point by point and even with facts is that this is the attitude which created the repressed henchmen found from Nazi Germany to Stalin goulag and Polpot camps.

Pray for us poor Aussies when his CCP friends will have taken control, fighting the evil US capitalism and bringing us people's power.
You will look at this from NZ, we behind barbed wires...
Let's hope the fall of the US will be a very slow process

 

[qldfrog]

In jest only..well i hope

 

[frugal.rock]

Let's hope the fall of the US will be a very slow process

In jest only..well i hope

Thus the thread.
Sometimes, intelligent people (obviously other people, not me) need to have a discussion about things to highlight potentially impending situations to Grubberments around the world.
We see it as it is, relatively unbiased and relatively detached from the political world.
It's up to the world leaders then.

 

[sptrawler]

The next step will be mass resignations in the police force IMO, like I said in one of the early posts, this will all lead to no men or vey few men applying for the police force.
When you have 3% of the population being convicted and imprisoned to make up 33% of inmates, I dont think it can be put down to racial prejudice.
Just my opinion.

 

[rederob]

That is one way to look at it.
The other way is simply evaluate the arguments put forward to date.

jog on
duc

The police officer resigned and the City of Boulder agreed to settle all claims made by the student.
The independent review confirmed violations of BPD Rules 5 and 8, namely that the officer took actions which he "… reasonably should know is not in accordance with the law;” and, he failed to “use reasonable judgment and refrain from conduct which reflects unfavorably on the department,” thereby causing embarrassment to the department, compromising its reputation and impairing its credibility.
In plain English all his actions were determined to be unlawful.
You might ask how an officer with 15 years experience could get it so wrong. The answer lies in police statistics which do not lie.

 

[frugal.rock]

The next step will be mass resignations in the police force IMO, like I said in one of the early posts, this will all lead to no men or vey few men applying for the police force.
When you have 3% of the population being convicted and imprisoned to make up 33% of inmates, I dont think it can be put down to racial prejudice.
Just my opinion.

I believe there is a documentary highlighting the fact that the American prison system is in fact a thriving sub economy for the US, meaning, certain individuals and many companies rely on the system and the fact it's over populated for their capitalism ventures and State sanctioned slave labour...

As for copper's quitting, most likely very few could afford to quit...

 

[rederob]

I believe there is a documentary highlighting the fact that the American prison system is in fact a thriving sub economy for the US, meaning, certain individuals and many companies rely on the system and the fact it's over populated for their capitalism ventures and State sanctioned slave labour...

As for copper's quitting, most likely very few could afford to quit...

Off topic but in reply: if you have not binge watched "Orange is the New Black", you should.
Corporatising the prison system is, in my opinion, a poor decision from any government authority. The above Netflix series shows how insidious that step is.
Back on topic, can we ignore the recovery?

 

[Smurf1976]

Who said anything about a march where it was ok to smash things ? Who said we should have riots in Oz ? A protest is not a riot or smashing things up.

I think the context is "if" it were to happen not a prediction that it will actually occur.

Much as those expressing concern about potential COVID-19 transmission at protests in Australia. It's a hypothetical but if it were to result in an outbreak and if that were to hypothetically result in a delay in re-opening things well then that's going to do plenty of harm to the cause. Campaigning 101 = don't do anything which gives bystanders a reason to diskile you.

That's a lot of "if" in both cases.

 

[aus_trader]

I don't have anything against peaceful protests. But I hope we don't get a spike in COVID numbers as a result, because how can social distancing be kept in a crowded protest ?

 

[wayneL]

I don't have anything against peaceful protests. But I hope we don't get a spike in COVID numbers as a result, because how can social distancing be kept in a crowded protest ?

I find the double standard.... Interesting.

I can't sit next to someone in a restaurant and the local feckin pub still isn't open, but, indulging in a copy cat protest/riot?

Well that's perfectly okay.

On this narrow point, I'm with the protesters, but not the antifa, marxist rioters.

 

[Smurf1976]

I don't have anything against peaceful protests. But I hope we don't get a spike in COVID numbers as a result, because how can social distancing be kept in a crowded protest ?

If it did lead to a COVID-19 spike then that's the sort of thing which turns fence sitters against the protesters and their message.

Protest, politics, marketing and so is not about rational logic, a point that advertisers worked out a very long time ago, such that mere association with something bad is rarely a good thing.

The underlying message I agree with, although I'd broaden it to ALL lives matter, but anyone who's lost their job, business or whatever because of the lockdown will be downright furious with anyone, regardless of their motives, who causes it to happen again.

That being so, I'd rather they'd worked with police etc to find some means to protest and make the point without involving a mass gathering.

 

[aus_trader]

I find the double standard.... Interesting.

I can't sit next to someone in a restaurant and the local feckin pub still isn't open, but, indulging in a copy cat protest/riot?

Well that's perfectly okay.

On this narrow point, I'm with the protesters, but not the antifa, marxist rioters.

OK, there is a little self interest in it as well.

I hate to see ourselves including myself in lockdown and restrictions again. So the comment about the fear of spiking virus infections... undoing all the good we've done to bring it under control.