Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Gold Price - Where is it heading?

There's something else that's different too , this time Asian Banks , not referring to the Japanese banks here , are cashed up . They learnt from the 90's , Japan kept on printing and hasn't stopped . A look over the majority of Chinese banks shows their ledgers in far better shape , capital wise , than their western counterparts .

Any bank caught holding the former AAA issues will find they've either dropped to AA or A , yet we still are not clear on the values , as the same entities have rerated them . Bonds were on the exit last week , the week before and so on .

I keep hearing the same sickening cue card rhetoric from nearly every so called analyst ( which desperately need rerating themselves ) , " if you can stand some pain look long term " , we need to rephrase this , because it really means , " if you can afford to lose value on an asset in terms of pricing and wait for that value and maybe a premium to return " . That's what they really mean .

Those rerated issues , dependant on which rating is gets placed , will see further writedowns , it will be in the billions though and all with a minimum in double digits , it gets an A rating make it the high doubles to triple digits .

That's still to come , it is in the process right now , but we won't see those figures for a little while longer , then there's the resets , there to come also .
Many spinners would have us all believe the bad news of the bad news is already out there .

Bollocks to that , the SEC has only just started to inform banks of their need to co-operate with enquiries , you see there's this thing called massive fraud and deception to be accounted for yet . If not that then the only other plausible excuse is negligence . Either outcome will see legal action that will take years and years to see a point of closure reached . There will be a huge reduction in the funds sector and that's not a maybe , it too is yet to come .

Add to all this the matter of nationalism that has only started to re-emerge and we will see an entirely new financial sector with a whole new list of meaningless reforms paraded out for the markets . With all the old promises renewed taboot , in short more spin , from a different angle .

The laugh I had was when it was spruiked that manufacturing can make up for any slack in the ISM as it fell to 41.9 for Jan . That's a massive contraction from the previous 54.4 in Dec and the December numbers looked bogus anyway .

No it's going to take investors a little longer to get over the last round of inaccurracies dished out . The data flows that were used to flood markets are now in question also , that lays squarely at the feet of the cash for comment programs ............ and they would know it too .

These type of events in markets always see a line up of litigation and incarceration , some of which will be scapegoats , a small portion will be those directly responsible , but only those who no longer have friends and are considered a contagian all on their own . No-one wants to be associated with infectious persons .

All these events will move the markets further , and that pain story will be bought out again , but who needs pain when you can find comfort .
 
There's something else that's different too , this time Asian Banks , not referring to the Japanese banks here , are cashed up . They learnt from the 90's , Japan kept on printing and hasn't stopped . A look over the majority of Chinese banks shows their ledgers in far better shape , capital wise , than their western counterparts .

Any bank caught holding the former AAA issues will find they've either dropped to AA or A , yet we still are not clear on the values , as the same entities have rerated them . Bonds were on the exit last week , the week before and so on .

I keep hearing the same sickening cue card rhetoric from nearly every so called analyst ( which desperately need rerating themselves ) , " if you can stand some pain look long term " , we need to rephrase this , because it really means , " if you can afford to lose value on an asset in terms of pricing and wait for that value and maybe a premium to return " . That's what they really mean .

Those rerated issues , dependant on which rating is gets placed , will see further writedowns , it will be in the billions though and all with a minimum in double digits , it gets an A rating make it the high doubles to triple digits .

That's still to come , it is in the process right now , but we won't see those figures for a little while longer , then there's the resets , there to come also .
Many spinners would have us all believe the bad news of the bad news is already out there .

Bollocks to that , the SEC has only just started to inform banks of their need to co-operate with enquiries , you see there's this thing called massive fraud and deception to be accounted for yet . If not that then the only other plausible excuse is negligence . Either outcome will see legal action that will take years and years to see a point of closure reached . There will be a huge reduction in the funds sector and that's not a maybe , it too is yet to come .

Add to all this the matter of nationalism that has only started to re-emerge and we will see an entirely new financial sector with a whole new list of meaningless reforms paraded out for the markets . With all the old promises renewed taboot , in short more spin , from a different angle .

The laugh I had was when it was spruiked that manufacturing can make up for any slack in the ISM as it fell to 41.9 for Jan . That's a massive contraction from the previous 54.4 in Dec and the December numbers looked bogus anyway .

No it's going to take investors a little longer to get over the last round of inaccurracies dished out . The data flows that were used to flood markets are now in question also , that lays squarely at the feet of the cash for comment programs ............ and they would know it too .

These type of events in markets always see a line up of litigation and incarceration , some of which will be scapegoats , a small portion will be those directly responsible , but only those who no longer have friends and are considered a contagian all on their own . No-one wants to be associated with infectious persons .

All these events will move the markets further , and that pain story will be bought out again , but who needs pain when you can find comfort .


the Sunday Telegraph states that "there is still 300 BLN USD of bad debt out there and Japan could be hiding most of it." He notes that the Nikkei has crumbled lately and Japanese banks are leading the slide. Evans-Pritchard writes that the "nagging fear is that Japan"s lenders - the conduit for the world's greatest stash of savings - have taken on a far bigger chunk of mortgage securities, collateralised loans obligations and other exotica from America"s structured credit boom than they have yet revealed." He goes on to say that the world might find out just how much soon enough when the banks report at the end of March. The article quotes Hans Redeker, currency chief at BNP Paribas as saying: "We know from Bank of Japan"s lending survey that the banks are already tightening hard, so something is brewing. Right now, we are in the lull before the second storm in global markets, and Asia is going to be the source of the nasty surprises." Tetsufumi Yamakawa, chief Japan economist for Goldman Sachs is quoted as saying that "recession is a clear and present danger in Japan, the leading indicators are deteriorating very sharply. Inventory is piling up at a rapid pace. There are clear signs of deceleration in exports of steel and semi-conductors to China." He added that the BOJ might have to start easing by the middle of the year.
The article is also bearish on China"s outlook for the remainder of 2008 noting that Hong Liang, Beijing economist for Goldman Sachs, is not much more hopeful about China's prospects this year. "The combination of a US slowdown and monetary tightening in China is never welcome, but the accumulated problems have to be resolved this year," she said. Ambrose-Pritchard added that China"s mercantilist drive for export share is a double-edged strategy. The trade surplus has risen at 80 BLN USD a year, increasing tenfold since 2002 while the economy has merely doubled. The result is that China is dependent on the US economy and private banks are slashing China"s growth forecasts deeper that the World Bank that recently cut China"s growth forecast from 10.8% to 9.6%
 
Well ........... the Swissie is going inthe opposite direction to POG , I wonder who they're bailing out :D


PS..... I might go close that Cable bet
 
For a minute there I thought it was the Imminent & Severe Correction thread :D.

An interesting thing might be unfolding for gold stocks. The XJO down the usual 80 odd points today, yet my gold portfolio up 3% so far today.

Could be the start of a reversal of trend and dislocation of 1st tier gold stocks from the rest of the market.
 

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Looks like she may be near decision time????
Cheers
..........Kauri
 

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For a minute there I thought it was the Imminent & Severe Correction thread :D.

An interesting thing might be unfolding for gold stocks. The XJO down the usual 80 odd points today, yet my gold portfolio up 3% so far today.

Could be the start of a reversal of trend and dislocation of 1st tier gold stocks from the rest of the market.

Well they are inextricably (cant'spell?) linked. As you know well the real key to gold will be the realisation that paper money in the coming times will not deliver value. As a currency that will fall to gold.
 
Well they are inextricably (cant'spell?) linked. As you know well the real key to gold will be the realisation that paper money in the coming times will not deliver value. As a currency that will fall to gold.

Hi Explod,
Totally off topic but....spell checking.....I use Firefox browser with the Australian dictionary add in.....

inextricably = correct ;)
 
Getting pushed about , would be surprised if Asian trade gave it some sort of support around the current . Thought I'd punt it , I've got a 928/29/30 res to push through yet though .

926 is a profit ..........
 

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too small to play the range... but will break... eventually?? but up... or down??? :)
Cheers
.........Kauri
 

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QA fluttery on the 5min.. interesting to see if it flies..
Cheers
..........Kauri
 

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yep sure is decision time, on the 4-hourly, 5-11 Feb
....... wedge on declining volume. Some fireworks coming, whichever way it goes.
Now I'm going to watch 'Apollo 11: the untold story', they reckon they saw a ufo... on the moon.. or something.
 

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Gold bargains emerge
By Troy Schwensen



PORTFOLIO POINT: The equity market sell-off has ignored improving figures from some gold miners, creating opportunities for astute investors.


Australian gold miners have had good news for investors in the reporting season, with quarterly results showing a 25% increase in profitability in the past year. These improvements have been largely attributable to a rising Australian dollar gold price, which has exceeded the inflationary cost pressures of the booming mining industry.

While operating costs continue to rise 5.7%, the average realised gold price improved by 11%. The price of gold in Australian dollars presently exceeds $1023 an ounce, which is 27% higher than the average realised price for the December 2007 quarter. Expect this to translate into ongoing improvements to operating profitability during the current March quarter.


nAustralia’s major domestic gold producers
------ December quarter 2006 ------ ------ December quarter 2007 ------
Company Cash
cost ($A) Realised
price ($A) Cash
margin Cash
cost ($A) Realised
price ($A) Cash
margin
Newcrest Mining 384 704 83% 314 870 177%
Perseverance 458 780 70% 587 869 48%
St Barbara 474 785 66% 518 867 67%
Equigold 383 691 80% 381 754 98%
Dominion Mining 335 734 119% 351 822 134%
Resolute Mining * 756 689 -9% 798 677 -15%
Average 465 731 68% 491.5 810 85%
* Ravenswood (Australian operation)

The few exceptions to this will be the companies that have maintained their hedging commitments where forward sales agreements have locked in lower future gold prices. By hedging, these companies have effectively negated many of the inflationary protection benefits offered by higher gold prices. Newcrest Mining in 2007 made the tough decision to close out its hedge book, which involved a large capital raising – more than $2 billion. Many other domestic gold producers, including Lihir Gold, have followed a similar path and are now reaping the benefits.

The recent fallout from equity markets has seen many Australian gold producers sold off despite these improving fundamentals. This has created buying opportunities for those investors astute enough to recognise the selling irrationality. With equity markets continuing to look increasingly shaky, expect more opportunities to present themselves over the coming weeks and months.

Troy Schwensen is a research analyst at GoldNerds.
 
Well that`s interesting Miner because i was looking at the Superpit in which Newmont have a stake and i came across this article.Here is an excerpt and the link for a read.This may be a warning for some o.t. or labour cuts but a few bold statements nonetheless.

Newmont considers Australian mine asset sale

Jamie Freed, Sydney
February 11, 2008

US GOLDMINER Newmont Mining has flagged the possibility of selling off most of its Australian assets after it conducts a company-wide review this year.

In a presentation to US analysts on Friday, chief executive Dick O'Brien said the company had yet to decide the fate of its high-cost operations, the majority of which are in Australia.

"If we look at our high cost assets around the world … other than Phoenix (in Nevada), we're talking about Australia," he said.

Newmont produced 1.3 million ounces of gold from its Australian and New Zealand operations last year at a cost of $US496 an ounce. This year, after the sale of its Pajingo mine in Queensland, it expects to produce 1.1 million ounces at a cost of $US585 to $US625 an ounce from Australian and New Zealand operations.
"Those are the portfolio of assets we have that we could hive off pretty easily if we decided to do it," Mr O'Brien said. "I'm not sure that we will. But that's the evaluation process that we need to stand for in 2008."
 
have added a pyramiddie to my short possie on gold... for better or worse..
Cheers
...........Kauri
 

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Gold has shot down tonight in Perth (mornng in NY Feb 12 2008, Current New York Time: 8:06:10) - see attached.
Does it imply share price will go up tomorrow morning (Wednesday) ?
 

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