Generational Shift

[sptrawler]

I used to think that too, but I am against the death penalty now, it’s just to final and the justice system is too flawed.

Check out “The confession tapes” series on Netflix, and you will see how often innocent people get setup or even confess to crimes they didn’t actually commit.

I agree with your sentiment on the death penalty, there would have been many people executed that were innocent, but there would also be many innocent people saved by a murderer not been allowed back on the street.
Maybe with AI and technology eventually the accuracy of convictions can be increased to a point where errors are all but removed, who knows, but there are may people who are released that re offend.
Having said that I would hate to be an innocent person, waiting to be executed and therein lies the emotional component of the debate.

 

[sptrawler]

It’s always best to start with good parenting, and the ones that do t get that I guess we just have to hope the justice system works.

That is very true, I have a wayward son, but he does draw a line in the sand that he wont cross and it has saved him from probably a long term in prison.
Then you have a large majority who are socially and financially handicapped, their children don't have the luxury of good parenting for many reasons, but the justice system isn't designed to deal with it.
So where it ends no one knows.

 

[moXJO]

You can buy and read books on your phone using the kindle app, you know.

I learn heaps of stuff via the videos I watch on my phone, the annual reports I read on my phone, podcasts I listen too, it’s not the tool that’s the problem it’s how you use it, I would say for me an hour of phone time can be more productive than an hour reading the paper.

But, for every Millennial you point to wasting time on their phone their is probably another Millennial that’s waking up early to hit the Gym, travelling, or a million other activities that are more common these days.

Had a kindle, tried reading books online and it feels like it cheapens any knowledge. Off the phone and its easy to switch over to something else.

Agree with the videos being great. Unfortunately there's a lot of bad information out there.

Wasn't really targeting millennials with that comment. More that experiences have been cheapened and I question peoples dedication this last decade.

Certain generations definitely have common traits though.

 

[Value Collector]

I agree with your sentiment on the death penalty, there would have been many people executed that were innocent, but there would also be many innocent people saved by a murderer not been allowed back on the street.
Maybe with AI and technology eventually the accuracy of convictions can be increased to a point where errors are all but removed, who knows, but there are may people who are released that re offend.
Having said that I would hate to be an innocent person, waiting to be executed and therein lies the emotional component of the debate.

Its not a choice between death penalty or release, we can just sentence people to genuine life sentences.

If you have Netflix I highly recommend that “the confession tapes” show, it’s a series of episodes where each case is one episode.

An example from the show is a lady who’s husband died in a kayak accident was questioned by police, and in the 16 hour interrogation admitted he used to bash hear, and that she was a little be relieved he was gone.

This admission led them to build a case against her that she killed him by causing the accident, and because they threatened her with the death penalty she accepted a plea bargain and did 15 years in jail, even though it was later proved there was no way she could have caused the accident.

So many innocent people are railroaded into admissions by police that simply have their facts wrong.

 

[sptrawler]

Its not a choice between death penalty or release, we can just sentence people to genuine life sentences.

If you have Netflix I highly recommend that “the confession tapes” show, it’s a series of episodes where each case is one episode.

An example from the show is a lady who’s husband died in a kayak accident was questioned by police, and in the 16 hour interrogation admitted he used to bash hear, and that she was a little be relieved he was gone.

This admission led them to build a case against her that she killed him by causing the accident, and because they threatened her with the death penalty she accepted a plea bargain and did 15 years in jail, even though it was later proved there was no way she could have caused the accident.

So many innocent people are railroaded into admissions by police that simply have their facts wrong.

The wife and I don't have Netflix, but the daughter who we help out does, so when I'm up at home looking after the grandkids i'll check it out.
But as opposed to that example.
What if, when the mother and kids, that were doused in petrol and set on fire in Queensland, the father had shut the door and stepped back and watched.
The public has to pay for his incarceration for maybe 20 years max, then he walks out and gets on with whatever life he has, maybe another woman upsets him and the same happens again.
I guess caring and sharing makes us people who aren't affected feel better, but if it was someone near and dear, maybe you would wonder where justice stops and stupidity starts?

 

[againsthegrain]

Its not a choice between death penalty or release, we can just sentence people to genuine life sentences.

If you have Netflix I highly recommend that “the confession tapes” show, it’s a series of episodes where each case is one episode.

An example from the show is a lady who’s husband died in a kayak accident was questioned by police, and in the 16 hour interrogation admitted he used to bash hear, and that she was a little be relieved he was gone.

This admission led them to build a case against her that she killed him by causing the accident, and because they threatened her with the death penalty she accepted a plea bargain and did 15 years in jail, even though it was later proved there was no way she could have caused the accident.

So many innocent people are railroaded into admissions by police that simply have their facts wrong.

sometimes its better to just talk less

 

[Value Collector]

The wife and I don't have Netflix, but the daughter who we help out does, so when I'm up at home looking after the grandkids i'll check it out.
But as opposed to that example.
What if, when the mother and kids, that were doused in petrol and set on fire in Queensland, the father had shut the door and stepped back and watched.
The public has to pay for his incarceration for maybe 20 years max, then he walks out and gets on with whatever life he has, maybe another woman upsets him and the same happens again.
I guess caring and sharing makes us people who aren't affected feel better, but if it was someone near and dear, maybe you would wonder where justice stops and stupidity starts?

As I said I am for actual life sentences, not these 15 year good behaviour deals things.

There is multiple reasons I am against the death penalty.

1, Guilty people will fight to the end of the earth tying up court resources if they think they will be killed, that’s why people can be on death row for 20 years.

2, innocent people get frightened into confessions and accepting plea bargains.

3, it’s not really a punishment.

4, it’s too final and leaves no room to reverse if new evidence comes out.

5, it taps into that negative side of our brain that wants revenge which I don’t think is healthy.

 

[Smurf1976]

A bit surprise coming from you:
same as CO2 cause global warming: cause vs effect?

Just a knowledge of history.

The term "loony gas" was around as early as the 1920's due to the effects it had on workers producing it. In short it sent them insane and was briefly banned at the time due to that.

The effects of lead on the human brain are well known and arguments based around gentrification of the CBD and so on don't explain city wide effects. The CBD might have gentrified but the city as a whole generally didn't. Nor do such arguments explain the same trend being seen in countless cities globally.

Even if it turns out that there's no link, that the reduction in violent crime is due to something else, there's still more than enough benefits from having gotten rid of lead. It's a rotten thing to be exposing children, or adults for that matter, to regardless. This generation is better off without it.

 

[Value Collector]

sometimes its better to just talk less

Totally agree, nothing you say to the police will ever protect you, it can only harm you, you will have plenty of time to tell your side of the story in court, even if you plan on confessing, don’t confess until you have your lawyer, because at least she might be able to secure a lessor sentence, no need to rush into talking before you have to.

 

[Smurf1976]

I am against the death penalty now, it’s just to final and the justice system is too flawed.

I'll simply say that I've seen enough of it, having witnessed an occurrence some years ago, to have very little confidence in it.

It's a big part of the problems we have in society in my view. A very big part. The reality that all too often serious wrongdoing goes unpunished even when guilt has been established and accepted as such.

That "untouchable" attitude has spread through society. It's what sees school kids throwing furniture at teachers and so on, the reality that there's no consequence of doing so.

I'll never advocate the death penalty, simply because I don't trust the system to get it right, but serious reform is needed yes. Those who are guilty need to face consequences of a meaningful nature. Meaningful as in forcing them to put right what they've done to the extent that can be done, pay proper compensation where it can't, and where relevant permanently removing them from situations which would enable them to do it again would be a good start.

 

[moXJO]

I'll simply say that I've seen enough of it, having witnessed an occurrence some years ago, to have very little confidence in it.

It's a big part of the problems we have in society in my view. A very big part. The reality that all too often serious wrongdoing goes unpunished even when guilt has been established and accepted as such.

That "untouchable" attitude has spread through society. It's what sees school kids throwing furniture at teachers and so on, the reality that there's no consequence of doing so.

I'll never advocate the death penalty, simply because I don't trust the system to get it right, but serious reform is needed yes. Those who are guilty need to face consequences of a meaningful nature. Meaningful as in forcing them to put right what they've done to the extent that can be done, pay proper compensation where it can't, and where relevant permanently removing them from situations which would enable them to do it again would be a good start.

Personally I think a good start is education overhaul. Trying to learn anything in this country is a bit of a joke imo.

 

[over9k]

I'll simply say that I've seen enough of it, having witnessed an occurrence some years ago, to have very little confidence in it.

It's a big part of the problems we have in society in my view. A very big part. The reality that all too often serious wrongdoing goes unpunished even when guilt has been established and accepted as such.

That "untouchable" attitude has spread through society. It's what sees school kids throwing furniture at teachers and so on, the reality that there's no consequence of doing so.

I'll never advocate the death penalty, simply because I don't trust the system to get it right, but serious reform is needed yes. Those who are guilty need to face consequences of a meaningful nature. Meaningful as in forcing them to put right what they've done to the extent that can be done, pay proper compensation where it can't, and where relevant permanently removing them from situations which would enable them to do it again would be a good start.

It's because no people are bad (except political conservatives anywhere to the right of stalin) and society simply makes people do bad things smurf, didn't you know that?

If you're well off, it's because society made you so. If you're not, it's because society made you so. No human being has ever had agency, duh.

Everything is a social construct.

 

[qldfrog]

Just a knowledge of history.

The term "loony gas" was around as early as the 1920's due to the effects it had on workers producing it. In short it sent them insane and was briefly banned at the time due to that.

The effects of lead on the human brain are well known and arguments based around gentrification of the CBD and so on don't explain city wide effects. The CBD might have gentrified but the city as a whole generally didn't. Nor do such arguments explain the same trend being seen in countless cities globally.

Even if it turns out that there's no link, that the reduction in violent crime is due to something else, there's still more than enough benefits from having gotten rid of lead. It's a rotten thing to be exposing children, or adults for that matter, to regardless. This generation is better off without it.

No arguments about the damages of lead, but until lead was banned from fuel ..ulp..the population most affected as kids were also the inner city slums Redfern etc in Sydney.and kids living there were the lower socio economic stata subjected also to drugs, destroyed family units alcoholism and poverty..all strong causes of future troubled lives.
While lead might have been part, i doubt it was the major cause.
You see my point.
Lead was not helping but believe me,no lead issue for the kids now in their 20s in French housing estates and violence has reached gore film levels...
The West lost its way since the 80s both in education, prospects.. social escalation..justice , democracy immigration/integration. Much obvious economically
A huge mess. Let's not try to find easy excuses...

 

[3 hound]

As I said I am for actual life sentences, not these 15 year good behaviour deals things.

There is multiple reasons I am against the death penalty.

1, Guilty people will fight to the end of the earth tying up court resources if they think they will be killed, that’s why people can be on death row for 20 years.

2, innocent people get frightened into confessions and accepting plea bargains.

3, it’s not really a punishment.

4, it’s too final and leaves no room to reverse if new evidence comes out.

5, it taps into that negative side of our brain that wants revenge which I don’t think is healthy

Good points, two things I refuse to have an opinion on and choose to stick my head in the sand about are death penalty and abortion.

I think the two are strongly related but I know many people say they are seperate unrelated issues.

All I know with 100% certainty is that I will never commit a serious crime and I won't be getting a female pregnant.

Hence I somewhat cowardly remove myself from having to have an opinion or picking a side.

 

[qldfrog]

Good points, two things I refuse to have an opinion on and choose to stick my head in the sand about are death penalty and abortion.

I think the two are strongly related but I know many people say they are seperate unrelated issues.

All I know with 100% certainty is that I will never commit a serious crime and I won't be getting a female pregnant.

Hence I somewhat cowardly remove myself from having to have an opinion or picking a side.

I understand you, death penalty can be hard.. especially as a result of a jury. What if....
Abortion
My view: free access within 3months, after increasingly difficult to stomach as you get nearer the 9m line.
Funnily, the same sides saying my body, my choice were forcing covid jabs on people...
A non PC research result i read a while back was linking abortion to crime stats:
the unborn are statistically the ones who would have had high crime rates.
Abortion adoption led to lower crime in poor black neighbourhoods in the USA where the study was from
But might just have been fuel lead removal ?
An interesting challenging link for our new woke world

 

[3 hound]

I understand you, death penalty can be hard.. especially as a result of a jury. What if....
Abortion
My view: free access within 3months, after increasingly difficult to stomach as you get nearer the 9m line.
Funnily, the same sides saying my body, my choice were forcing covid jabs on people...
A non PC research result i read a while back was linking abortion to crime stats:
the unborn are statistically the ones who would have had high crime rates.
Abortion adoption led to lower crime in poor black neighbourhoods in the USA where the study was from
But might just have been fuel lead removal ?
An interesting challenging link for our new woke world

Let's not forget the systematic organised abortion infrastructure planned parenthood in the US was championed and created by a literal white supremacist (eugenics advocate) to cut down on the number of black babies being born....to that end it is highly successful based purely on the number into the millions of black babies being aborted.

It amazing how Wikipedia cleaned her image up verifying why Wikipedia is now a left wing propaganda tool and why I stopped donating to it.

Here is a more legitimate historical perspective;

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...-sanger-deserves-no-honors-column/5480192002/

 

[Value Collector]

Let's not forget the systematic organised abortion infrastructure planned parenthood in the US was championed and created by a literal white supremacist (eugenics advocate) to cut down on the number of black babies being born....to that end it is highly successful based purely on the number into the millions of black babies being aborted.

It amazing how Wikipedia cleaned her image up verifying why Wikipedia is now a left wing propaganda tool and why I stopped donating to it.

Here is a more legitimate historical perspective;

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...-sanger-deserves-no-honors-column/5480192002/

Abortion is a pretty big topic and would require it’s own thread if you wish to discuss it.

My personal view is that I am pro choice, there are many reasons women need the right to make the choice, especially in the USA where child birth can cost up to $100k if you don’t have insurance, not to mention that rape and domestic violence victims shouldn’t be forced to have their attackers baby, and the the various medical reasons.

 

[3 hound]

Abortion is a pretty big topic and would require it’s own thread if you wish to discuss it.

My personal view is that I am pro choice, there are many reasons women need the right to make the choice, especially in the USA where child birth can cost up to $100k if you don’t have insurance, not to mention that rape and domestic violence victims shouldn’t be forced to have their attackers baby, and the the various medical reasons.

In my mind we live in a world where the death penalty and abortions are unnecessary.

 

[3 hound]

Looks like a generational shift just happened;

 

[qldfrog]

In my mind we live in a world where the death penalty and abortions are unnecessary.

Are or should be?