Gann, honestly, is it a good basis for trading?

[sails]

Been some trades today on the puts Gazelle was looking at CBAKM7 - first time they have traded for quite a while. If Gazelle has bought them - perhaps he would be kind enough to explain the analysis?

 

[beamstas]

This thread sucks
Waste of time reading

QUESTION: "Gann, honestly, is it a good basis for trading?"

ANSWER: No! Because no body seems to bloody trade it!

I don't even see how its practical
Average joe is about to buy some shares.. oh frick i'll have to wait until saturn lines up with jupiter before i buy these

Cheers
Brad

 

[gazelle]

Hi Sails , I didnt end up taking the trade , the 23rd bought in a marginal secondary high but I just didnt feel confident in the way it was setting up so I passed this one up . that doesnt matter there will always be something else .

 

[nunthewiser]

This thread sucks
Waste of time reading

QUESTION: "Gann, honestly, is it a good basis for trading?"

ANSWER: No! Because no body seems to bloody trade it!

I don't even see how its practical
Average joe is about to buy some shares.. oh frick i'll have to wait until saturn lines up with jupiter before i buy these

Cheers
Brad

simple

dont read it ?

 

[sails]

Hi Sails , I didnt end up taking the trade , the 23rd bought in a marginal secondary high but I just didnt feel confident in the way it was setting up so I passed this one up . that doesnt matter there will always be something else .

Thanks Gazelle

Is there any Gann type analysis you would be willing to share that pointed you to the 23rd? It turned out you were right with your lower high (at least at this stage). With limited Gann knowledge, I would be interested in anything you could share?

 

[gazelle]

Sails . 45 90 days and 10 years into that date . these were some of the reasons I was looking at the possibility of a top into this date . when dealing with long term fixed cycles you have to make considerations for leap years . once long term and intermediate time cycles move into proportionate alignment you can look for evidence of a change in trend . This must be confirmed by other factors and always set your stops and predetermine profit targets before initiating a trade .

 

[nunthewiser]

Beamstas : Were you standing behind the door when the brains were handed out or were you issued with a half serve . Simpletons like you are a constant form of amuesment around here . Why dont you totter off and play with your little ipod .
.

actually the constant emotio0nal outbursts in your replies leads to me believe that you actually dont posess the qualities needed to be a succesful trader regardless of how much gobbledygook you spew on these pages

still no proof of trades

no nothing except childish insults at ANYONE that trys to detract from gann spruikers

have a nice day darl and please control your emotions

 

[beamstas]

Beamstas : Were you standing behind the door when the brains were handed out or were you issued with a half serve.

When god was handing out brains
I thought he said trains
So i asked for one that goes in reverse

actually the constant emotio0nal outbursts in your replies leads to me believe that you actually dont posess the qualities needed to be a succesful trader regardless of how much gobbledygook you spew on these pages

still no proof of trades

no nothing except childish insults at ANYONE that trys to detract from gann spruikers

have a nice day darl and please control your emotions

Stop Press!
Nunthewiser
Actually sticking up for me!
We better not tell anyone about this nun
Don't wanna ruin our reputation


Still no statements..


Cheers
Brad

 

[Sicilian Trader]

This thread is seriously becoming a fricking joke. I am not even involved in the discussion and I am losing my sh*t just logging on each night hoping to find updates (graphs / gann explanations) and just finding more excuses, procrastination, or simply just more empty replies from Gannists blatantly ignoring straight forward and simple questions.

I will state again that I sit on the fence. I am not against Gann or for him (at this stage in my learning. I am educating myself on some of his methods as his body or work is quite extensive, and very interesting. I am learning about his apprach along with a host of other approaches (non gann) and will continue to do so until I find what suits me. So I am not on the attack towards Gannists per se but more so towards people who just arent supplying any info to other members who are genuinely here to learn and listen.

It becomes incredibly frustating when someone puts all their energy in avoiding intelligent questions, be it in trading or any aspect of life for that matter.

If one is here is to learn, to become better a trader, to educate themselves (free of charge), then surely those same people would like to give something back by being as transparent as practicable (without giving away too much IP of course).

I have been here a short amount of time and have learnt more here than any other avenue on trading education. As soon as I become knowledge, I intend on sharing with others - who take a genuine interest, seems fair.

I can understand the likes of Gazelle and Trader Paul not really wanting to give info to the likes of tech/a and TH, as their undertone can be condescending at times (doesnt bother me but can see how it can bother others), but heavens sake, there are a host of others who are genuinely interested and who are asking so politely about seeing charts and some basic explanations (basic). I have seen the likes of Sails ask on numerous occassions, asking for example, with courtesy and respect, only to be ignored. Some are asking in such a polite way that its almost infuriating. Just basic info like your rationale for entry / rationale for exit and maybe things like : July 10 - postive cycle, July 12 - strong likelyhood of a rally : I will use an OTM call option

Trader Paul, lets say someone asks you out of genuine interest the following:
ASF Member : "Trader Paul, if there is a stong probability, based on your analysis, of x happenning on a particular date (ie. a very positive cycle for August), how do you trade it TP?

Couldnt a likely answer be something along the lines of:
"...Thank you for your quesiton ASF Member, I will be buy an OTM call option, expiry x, currently they are trading at around x, if I am right then my upside will be x , if wrong, then I just lose my premium and then out to fight another day, Have a great day, happy days" ....?????

Seriously it cant be that hard can it?!! The only knowledgable and genuine person I have come across on this topic, willing to give their time and their explanations, is Magdoran. And he doesnt use Gann in its entirety, he uses it as part of his overall strategy. But that is it, that is the only person. And honestly, he is the only person that is holding my interest on the topic of Gann. If I had to rely on the likes of Trader Paul, Bronte, Battman, Happy Trader to hold my interest, I would have discounted Gann a long time ago, probably on day 2 of ASF. No offence to the above guys, but when I read your posts I sometimes get the urge to jab my eye balls with forks. To lesser extent, Gazelle. So much of it is wishwash.

Believe it or not , there are people here who are very interested in learning, people who have been here for years and years, who have given their time and knowledge and all they asking is for you, the gannist, to be open with them. Surely you owe it to them, given you are currently enjoying the benefits of this free service call ASF.

All that seems to be happneing however, is the proliferation of frustration, angst and tention amongst those genuinely interested in Gann. And I cant but notice that you guys are doing a great disservice to Gann's work by tarnishing a body of work that I am sure has many many benefits.

Can someone please put this to thread to bed with some intelligent analsyis, charts , explanations, so we can all move on with our lives and most importantly, so I can move on with mine. I log on every fricking night for about 15 mins only to scroll through excuses and chartless replies. What a waste of my life (so to is this 30 mins).

To the Gannists (or at least to those Gannists unwilling to post the desired information), there is something else I have noticed from my short time here on ASF. And that is that you will gain alot more respect in putting your 'chop on the block' and happen to be wrong, than putting up nothing at all. Ie. If you put up some analysis, charts, some likely future trades and you are subsequently wrong then you will earn respect from others (chop on the block).

Some traders are wrong 50% of the time and still very profitable, some are wrong 70% of the time and still very profitable. Some are right 60% of the time and lose money hand over fist. Being right in the trading world does not carry anywhere near as much weight as it does outside the trading world, so why be afraid of poistig and being wrong?? Many have been wrong but still continue to post, good on them, I and many others have tremendous respect for those posters.

And we are not going to judge the merit of Gann over 3 trades, just like one wouldnt judge the merit of a potential trading system over 3 trades (sample size greater than say 30, and then you start to get an idea of what are systems is like. It would be no different to posting a gann example).

I'd say if you post one chart, one trade, with 'some' explanation, you will gain a great anount of respect from many. Some of course will continue to disrespect your strategies, they will always exist - who cares?! From my perspective you will gain my respect if you (the gannist) post an informative trade, a set up, whatever. At least that way you are informing others , educating others, creating awareness, which is what this forum is all about IMO. (If anyone is on this forum and this isnt their porpose, then I have no idea what they are doing on here).

Damn, if I wasnt a 6 month trading rookie, I would love to post something myself. Simply for the purpose of informing others. What a great opportunity to 'step up to the plate' this could be for someone. (I obvioulsy cant show what I do know at this stage in my career as there is a good chance I will put off a host of budding traders entirely, singlehandedly).

Can someone just post a nice chart with analysis. Damn, this thread is beginning to sound like a broken record.

Happy Days

Warmest Regards

Have a great day and all the breast
ST

 

[sails]

...Sails . 45 90 days and 10 years into that date . these were some of the reasons I was looking at the possibility of a top into this date . when dealing with long term fixed cycles you have to make considerations for leap years . once long term and intermediate time cycles move into proportionate alignment you can look for evidence of a change in trend . This must be confirmed by other factors and always set your stops and predetermine profit targets before initiating a trade .

Thanks again - I understand some basic concepts of the 45 and 90 days. I had a look to see what happened 10 years ago and find there was a top on the 23rd April, 1999. It sounds like you had other factors also honing in around that date further confirming a possible change in trend. Have you found the square of nine useful?

Actually, I think your post above explains how some of the seemingly mysterious Gann techniques are more about finding a potential turning points and are not initially about trading. Then, possibly conventional methods are applied for trading that potential set up begins to confirm itself. Does that make sense?

 

[Naked shorts]

Well said ST

 

[Trader Paul]

Trader Paul, lets say someone asks you out of genuine interest the following:
ASF Member : "Trader Paul, if there is a stong probability, based on your analysis, of x happenning on a particular date (ie. a very positive cycle for August), how do you trade it TP?

Can someone just post a nice chart with analysis. Damn, this thread is beginning to sound like a broken record.

Warmest Regards

ST

Hi ST (and anybody else, who can hold an intelligent conversation),

Maybe you should just go over to the other Gann thread, where we
discussed some of Gann's astroanalysis on COH ... over the past couple
of weeks ..... and just updated it this morning .....

..... some very simple stuff, that everybody can understand,
complete with the chart that you requested as well, ST ...

have a great day

paul



=====

 

[Sicilian Trader]

Hi ST (and anybody else, who can hold an intelligent conversation),

Maybe you should just go over to the other Gann thread, where we
discussed some of Gann's astroanalysis on COH ... over the past couple
of weeks ..... and just updated it this morning .....

..... some very simple stuff, that everybody can understand,
complete with the chart that you requested as well, ST ...

have a great day

paul



=====

Hi TP

thanks for the prompt reply,

i just had a another look at that thread you referred to and noticed your attachments. Had a look at all them (on a side note you might want to look into attaching it as an image so that when people read your posts , then can immediately look at the chart. As opposed to going back and forth in between the chart and post windows. Its small, but could make a difference -- not a criticism, just a suggestion).

Anyway, of the 12 or so attachements / charts you have posted over the couple of years, the only ones of interest, the only ones that the likes of tech are annoyingly asking someone like you to post, are attached below.

I think if we had a chart, along these lines, with explanantions and accompanied with your forecasts (low prob/high prob), then we will be in business. (btw, I mean that metaphorically, i dont mean I will give you $6,000 to see some charts )

So how about it? You clearly have knowledge on this subject TP, probably more so than many others have, so lets all learn together. Personally that is why I am here. Nothing more.

(note to Mods : if TP is going to put his chop on the block in this thread by partially enlightening us on Gann, then can you do your best in preventing any abuse (including mine), that is levelled to towards him)

Anyway, so of all the charts I saw, most were just candle sticks with 2 or 3 EMA's (not much gann stuff). Of the few 'gann type' charts, there were no 'Gann type' explanations. And of the posts that had 'gann type' forecasts, there were no accompanying 'gann type' charts.

The 2 charts below captured my attention.

TP, this is how I see it. And this is how I would play it if I was in your position, with your knowledge base.

The way I see it is that you have a real opportunity of posting some 'astuffstance' (astro stuff with sudstance) using the exact same chart types below

You could use a real example, something everyone can relate to, lets pick the XJO for example, as this is an index the majority of ASF posters are familiar with. The we can have a polite question and answer period.

In this period of time I think you will acquire many new TP supporters. I will be one of them, even if you happen to be wrong on occasion. I will watch your postings with interest and start growing respect for your work.

I am very keen to learn about the application of Gann, as evident in my sacrificing of this Tuesday evening.

I appreciate there may not be a XJO set up necessarily, but surely there is a chance of providing astuffstance either now or in near future??

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Thanks

 

[gazelle]

Sails : These are fixed cycles that are based upon the divisions of the Gann emblem . 45 90 180 270 and 360 . These represent the division of the four seasons on the square of nine . March 21st is 0 deg or 0 deg Aries June 21st is 90 deg on the wheel or or 0 deg Cancer and so on . As outlined in How to profit in Commodities Gann placed alot of importance on the fixed cycles such as 45 days from a significant low and 90 days from a significant high . These cycles also extend their application out to weekly and monthly timeframes but like any form of analysis they should be confirmed by other factors .
Fixed cycles and Anniversary dates are an important aspect of Ganns work and when a grouping of certain dates lines up in a narrow timing window lets say 1 - 2 days we can look at the possibility of a change of trend . The pattern of the trend and how it has moved into the nominated date is also a very important piece of the puzzle when determing how you will move into a position . Trends have certain characteristics like speed and angle of ascent or decent which is one of the primary reasons Gann developed the 45 and 90 deg angles as a measuring gauge to identify the speed and magnitude of the underlying trend in play . Certain stocks might have the tendency to exhaust into a high with a number of range expansion bars moving up to complete a high whilst others might have a tendency to creep into a high . These techniques and understanding the particular phases of trend development constitute a key aspect in any succesful trading plan and Bill Mclarenn covers this material extensively in his video set . In response to your question : Calculating future turning points where I expect a change to take place is very important as it provides me with a timing and directional mechanishm to either enter or exit a trade after all entry and exit is about trying to time the market and manage your positions in the best manner you are able . The Square of Nine is a Plannetary Calculator . it is also the Circle of 24 . This is discussed in the Square of Nine thread .

Regards Gazelle

 

[Trembling Hand]

So you admit, that your attacks on me were based on gossip then, th ... ???

Yep. fair enough. I have no proof of my VERY high suspicion that you don't trade. My info is in part from a PM I received from a fellow ASFer.

My apology will by stuck on my BLOG and on my ASF signature for a month AND come with $500 dollar to Joe when you post a statement showing 20 trades taken say the last 6 months from the crud you have pimped on here. Surely with all your trading calls it wouldn't be hard to match them to a few trades recently

OK, straight to the point. A CHALLENGE. LETS see if there is real value in GANN, and lets make believers of the NON believers. This will be fun!!!!

Starting January 1st 2009 thru December 31st 2009 let us all make a record of our chosen trading account, with starting balance and closing balance. At the end of the year those that choose to continue to argue about the merits of this approach will be given a chance to show if they are real traders. We will get an independent auditor and accountant to review the trading statements. Posting these on a public forum is understandably an issue. Anyone considered the taxation implications!!!!!

Those that are skeptical of GANN, choose your representative to represent you as your champion VERSUS ME. I will represent GANN. At the end of the year if my trading account shows a greater return, then I pay nothing for the costs in getting this challenge independently audited. Further to that lets put up a dollar wager of 10,000 USD to the winner!! The loser pays the winner 10,000 USD plus all costs associated with this challenge. We will get a solicitor to arrange setting up the contract, all legal and above board.

I think this will silence the critics once and for all. Warning any shallow and mindless responses to this will be obvious.

Well seekandfind has contacted me but reconsider his challenge to us shallow and mindless critics. Shame I was looking forward to not only kickin butt but also seeing someone actually trade Gann.

Not to be!!

I have suggested that he post up some Gann trades and walk us through them. Free from attack, from me anyway, as long as they are fair trades that are clearly showing gann methods I will be happy. If he can back them up with statements in the future or past I will be rapped. As all other posters will be - I'm guessing. After all that's what we have always wanted. Someone showing how they TRADE Gann.

As yet none have

 

[Trembling Hand]

Oh I forgot to add that the reason Seekandfind decided to pull out of his own challenge is because

There is NO doubt that a highly focused and successful day trader can generate returns at a much faster rate than a position trader

Which I obviously agree with

 

[sails]

Gazelle, many thanks for your detailed post and for your thoughts on McLaren's work. I have bookmarked the Sq of 9 thread to go through it carefully again. I know I read that thread as it was evolving, but I think I have too many jigsaw pieces missing and it didn't make a lot of sense at the time.

 

[Trader Paul]

Hi folks,

Just by way of example, here's some current results of trades entered
in this month's trading comp, on another forum ..... including my
transactions completed, over the past couple of weeks .....

..... and there's no reason, why this cannot be done in real-time,
with real money ... !~!

have a great day

paul



=====

 

[Timmy]

Just looking at some of the transactions in your portfolio.
I’m probably not understanding something here Trader Paul, if you could clarify for me.

You have on the 24th of April buys totalling 1,126,974 shares on CTP,
total volume on that day appears to be only 822,200 though?

On the 27th sells of 1,126,974
but total volume on that day appears to be only 874,600?

On the 27th total turnover in MLI was 1.22 million shares
but you have transactions totalling more than 2.95 million shares?

ITC is even more out of kilter, on the 29th your transactions total over 5 million shares,
but overall volume on that day appears to be only 200,000 shares?

From your post these are only paper trades,
but these volumes could not have been transacted in reality, right?

Reason I ask is because you say:

..... and there's no reason, why this cannot be done in real-time,
with real money ... !~!

but the volume figures would be a reason why these trades couldn't be done with real money?

 

[Trader Paul]

From your post these are only paper trades,
but these volumes could not have been transacted in reality, right?

.... yes, that's correct Timmy .....

For the purpose of the comp, we could trade any volume, up to the
total value of cash, that we had available.

However, disregarding the volume, those stocks could still have been
traded at that time, successfully.

have a great day

paul



=====