Freedom of speech and protest

[luutzu]

Singapore has a welfare system, just most are too proud to avail themselves of it, apparently.

Jeez what is wrong with them? lol

Come to Australia, you will soon get over that mental block, you will become one of the unfortunates.

Maybe 'cause they all have a job that pays a living wage.

Can't afford to be too proud when an average house costs you one lifetime to pay off; the weekly rent would take almost one entire week's after tax earnings.

We're told that wealth, and tax dollars, are trickling down. That's not true at all.

But let's just ignore the statistics and policies. Imagine if you're one of the billionaires. You got the ears and nuts of every politicians; got the counsel and lobbying power money can buy... would you just let politicians or anyone else decide what to do with your tax dollars? Or decide what to do with other people's tax dollars?

I bet you're going to tell them that what's good for you will, ultimately, somehow, be good for everyone else. And if it wouldn't be, it's going to be good for the career politician dream of keeping a job or getting a seat at some board.

I mean, would we believe that those billionaire Chinese in Beijing, or those Russian oligarchs or Arab Sheiks and princelings... that they're not out for themselves at the costs of every single last one of their citizen? What make our barons and heiress any different? Because we're a democracy?

 

[sptrawler]

Maybe 'cause they all have a job that pays a living wage.

That's not true Iutzu, I have asked old people cleaning the streets, early in the morning in Singapore why. They say because I can, a weird concept I know.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngo...lternative-to-the-welfare-state/#721a7fa776c0

 

[sptrawler]

Can't afford to be too proud when an average house costs you one lifetime to pay off; the weekly rent would take almost one entire week's after tax earnings.

What will you be complaining about if Sydney house prices half? When interest rates go up, when the dollar falls and industry closes down.
There will always be something to complain about, that's life, you have to decide the best options for you going forward.
Not bitch about the options available, they will never be easy, that's life.
If it was easy, everyone would be sitting on a beach sucking on a stubby.

 

[luutzu]

That's not true Iutzu, I have asked old people cleaning the streets, early in the morning in Singapore why. They say because I can, a weird concept I know.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngo...lternative-to-the-welfare-state/#721a7fa776c0

"By embracing free trade, capital formation, vigorous meritocratic education, low taxes, and a reliable judicial system, Lee raised the per capita income of his country from $500 a year to some $52,000 a year today. ..."

Australia, the US etc. doesn't have those?

Real wages have been flat-lined since the late 1970s. Costs of living up; cost of education, healthcare etc. etc. up. So we either no longer have a free market, capitalism goodness... or we have too much of it.

If you google any major corporations you cared to, you will find, in the business press, that they all receive government subsidies. All of them.

Amazon twist arms and smash heads of local and state gov't to give it tax subsidies, free land, this and all that just to get it to open a distribution. And no, it's not always good for the local business once they moved in either.

Google receives about $900M, from memory, a year from the US gov't to keep its data centre open. On and on and on.

Those are the good kind of welfare. Those few crumbs for the poor and the needy... why that's just wrong.

 

[luutzu]

What will you be complaining about if Sydney house prices half? When interest rates go up, when the dollar falls and industry closes down.
There will always be something to complain about, that's life, you have to decide the best options for you going forward.
Not bitch about the options available, they will never be easy, that's life.
If it was easy, everyone would be sitting on a beach sucking on a stubby.

Pointing out facts is not complaining or whining. Does a person need to be all cheery and positive when discussing, I don't know, reality? Facts are what they are.

So if we want to have a serious discussion about the state of the economy, why we're in a decline, if we are... might want to get the fact straight before assigning blame.

anyway

 

[Tisme]

Singapore has a welfare system, just most are too proud to avail themselves of it, apparently.

Jeez what is wrong with them? lol

Come to Australia, you will soon get over that mental block, you will become one of the unfortunates.

In fairness ... you been to Singapore ? Retire to wot?

 

[Tink]

Wedding magazine closes after refusing to feature same-sex couples

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/g...s/news-story/c23855fc8005ec07d3cfa5144eef63b2

https://whitemag.com/blog/official-...CXPcCX9i6vL1WnFWRFl0PzoLz6y6aA&v=6cc98ba2045f

 

[jbocker]

Wedding magazine closes after refusing to feature same-sex couples

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/g...s/news-story/c23855fc8005ec07d3cfa5144eef63b2

https://whitemag.com/blog/official-statement/?q=/blog/official-statement/&fbclid=IwAR2CmGUawbKXrskggx-li8aSDBdjOCXPcCX9i6vL1WnFWRFl0PzoLz6y6aA&v=6cc98ba2045f

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Did they not get the gist of what the majority accepts nowadays?

 

[SirRumpole]

Wedding magazine closes after refusing to feature same-sex couples

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/g...s/news-story/c23855fc8005ec07d3cfa5144eef63b2

https://whitemag.com/blog/official-statement/?q=/blog/official-statement/&fbclid=IwAR2CmGUawbKXrskggx-li8aSDBdjOCXPcCX9i6vL1WnFWRFl0PzoLz6y6aA&v=6cc98ba2045f

If the gay community doesn't like what a particular magazine says then they should start their own instead of expecting everyone else to do their bidding.

Talk about arrogance. Let them get out and attract advertisers instead of trying to ruin someone else.

 

[Tink]

“Nothing will change when SSM is legalised.”

“Stop fearmongering – this will not affect you.”

“Allowing SSM to marry will not impact anyone else.”

As you can see they have written their reasoning on their site.

https://whitemag.com/blog/official-...CXPcCX9i6vL1WnFWRFl0PzoLz6y6aA&v=6cc98ba2045f

 

[PZ99]

Their reasoning is self inflicted. No one confiscated their freedom to stay online or not.

 

[cynic]

Their reasoning is self inflicted. No one confiscated their freedom to stay online or not.

Seriously?!!
I trust you are aware of how different the response would be, if a business publishing material featuring LGBT couples, cited the bullying of their advertisers and contributors, as the primary reason for their closure.

So much for the happier, inclusive society that we were all promised!

 

[PZ99]

Seriously?!!
I trust you are aware of how different the response would be, if a business publishing material featuring LGBT couples, cited the bullying of their advertisers and contributors, as the primary reason for their closure.

So much for the happier, inclusive society that we were all promised!

The first form of "bullying" I saw was when someone shoved a pie in a CEO's face for espousing LGBT views as posters on their products.

Please show me the post where you've condemned this bullying please.

Otherwise your last sentence has no credibility.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think Alan Joyce probably bullied Qantas staff and customers to support his personal campaign.

In my view his actions were a serious breach of his corporate responsibilities.

I haven't seen him use Qantas to campaign for homeless people or for less domestic violence or anything else not affecting him.

 

[cynic]

The first form of "bullying" I saw was when someone shoved a pie in a CEO's face for espousing LGBT views as posters on their products.

Please show me the post where you've condemned this bullying please.

Otherwise your last sentence has no credibility.

I believe this post to the SSM thread, made my contempt for such behaviour perfectly clear:

In years gone by, despite my cultural upbringing, I had considerable sympathy for the homosexual community, largely on account of the needless verbal and physical abuse to which I know that many had been subjected. Our society has become noticably more supportive of the needs of that community and it seems that roles have reversed with the once persecuted now transmuting themselves into persecutors.

Recent developments have alerted me to the tendency, of some members of that community, to overlook the fact that society doesn't only exist to accomodate the needs of homosexuals - heterosexuals of all ages and backgrounds also have needs!

If this issue is truly about remedying a perceived inequality, then I fear that society may be making the error of pandering to the whims of "career victims" whilst neglecting to notice the various ways in which those "career victims" have now licensed themselves to persecute others.

This assault, on a long established institution, looks suspiciously like it may be merely one symptom of a much deeper problem.

Until there is more transparency about the true motivation/s underlying this issue, and the likely ramifications, I consider it unwise to entertain any proposed amendments to the marriage act.

 

[PZ99]

I think Alan Joyce probably bullied Qantas staff and customers to support his personal campaign.

That's a pretty big call mate. I've seen nothing like that.

In my view his actions were a serious breach of his corporate responsibilities.

I haven't seen him use Qantas to campaign for homeless people or for less domestic violence or anything else not affecting him.

I have. On both counts.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-food-resq-program-feeds-thousands-in-need/

big businesses such as Telstra, Woolworths and Qantas came out in support of paid domestic violence leave > http://theconversation.com/domestic-violence-leave-gains-support-but-lets-do-it-right-51251

 

[SirRumpole]

I have. On both counts.

Alan Joyce has my apologies on those two matters.

But he still used the shareholder's funds for political purposes on gay marriage.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/same-sex-marriage-alan-joyce-yes-campaign-support/8826682

 

[PZ99]

Alan Joyce has my apologies on those two matters.

But he still used the shareholder's funds for political purposes on gay marriage.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/same-sex-marriage-alan-joyce-yes-campaign-support/8826682

So did hundreds of other companies. They are board decisions in any case.

And on the NO vote I'm pretty sure Rupert Murdoch used similar funds for similar reasons.

Anyway, that's my last post on this subject. Last time this debate was had it nearly ruined the site... and it will always be someone elses fault.

And I'm getting covered with dust... :cough:

 

[SirRumpole]

And I'm getting covered with dust... :cough:

Yeah, it's a bit chokey out Orange way too.

coffin right back at you.

 

[Tink]

Paris riots

There are calls for a state of emergency and the army to be deployed in France after landmarks were attacked during intense riots.

French President Emmanuel Macron has asked for an evaluation of possible protest security measures, a day after a Paris protest against increased taxes and living costs devolved into France’s worst urban riot in a decade.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...s/news-story/81b7ce233135813099177e306799d988