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Julia said:
In some areas, yes, but on the question of how women dress and people's reactions to that, it's a matter of taste, not right or wrong.
Obviously the same goes for every individual woman. I'm personally more offended by rolls of fat, fully clothed, than a bare midriff without the fat. But that's nothing more than my own view.
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The issue wasn't whether you personally like the way people dress, it was whether women have the right to choose how they dress without being disrespected for it, the conversation was also whether it's ok to look down on women based only on the industry they work in. Thats what I was saying wasn't right.
 
Besides landing on the moon, perhaps the most spectacular achievement of our "western culture" is to approximate social equality between men & women - a work in progress.

Curiously enough, this struggle has encouraged unexpected creatures - those who advocate the non-existence of "gender", even more bizarrely, the interchangability of "gender", to emerge, and to stand with us.

They aren't on our side: they are the enemies of all that sexually reproduces. They are the enemies of every life form beyond amoeba.

P.
 
Purple XS2 said:
Curiously enough, this struggle has encouraged unexpected creatures - those who advocate the non-existence of "gender", even more bizarrely, the interchangability of "gender", to emerge, and to stand with us.

They aren't on our side: they are the enemies of all that sexually reproduces. They are the enemies of every life form beyond amoeba.

P.
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you lost me there, what are you actually talking about?
 
Value Collector said:
But in general, men have a lot more freedom to show their body, pretty much most men go topless at the beach without a stir, I women takes her top off and she is labelled and attention seeking tart.
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Don't know about that. Looking at the highlights of the Walkley awards there were a lot of bare female shoulders, upper breasts and backs that is the accepted norm these days.

If all the blokes walked up wearing singlets instead of tuxes, what would the reaction be ?
 
SirRumpole said:
Don't know about that. Looking at the highlights of the Walkley awards there were a lot of bare female shoulders, upper breasts and backs that is the accepted norm these days.

If all the blokes walked up wearing singlets instead of tuxes, what would the reaction be ?
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What would cause the biggest up roar, a Man taking his shirt off on the red carpet, or a woman revealing her chest?

You will have a point when women can swim at a public pool wearing only board shorts or bikini bottoms without be labelled tarts.
 
Value Collector said:
What would cause the biggest up roar, a Man taking his shirt off on the red carpet, or a woman revealing her chest?

You will have a point when women can swim at a public pool wearing only board shorts or bikini bottoms without be labelled tarts.
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No, I have a point now.

As a bloke, try getting in to an RSL wearing a singlet. Women walk straight through, men would be turned away. Why the difference in dress rules ?
 
SirRumpole said:
No, I have a point now.

As a bloke, try getting in to an RSL wearing a singlet. Women walk straight through, men would be turned away. Why the difference in dress rules ?
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That is quite an annoying rule, at my local RSL they kick any male out that is wearing thongs and/or a singlet past 7pm (also, no hats allowed).

I have asked one of the staff about it and they said it has nothing to do with safety or anything like that, they just require patrons to look 'respectable'.

Obviously we as a society have deemed different types of attire as being considered respectable for each gender.
 
SirRumpole said:
No, I have a point now.

As a bloke, try getting in to an RSL wearing a singlet. Women walk straight through, men would be turned away. Why the difference in dress rules ?
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your muddying the water here, any establishment has the right to set what ever dress code they like, I wasn't talking about dress codes.

I was talking about the body parts society lets you show without judging you and attacking your character.

Lets use your RSL analogy, If we removed the dress code, so you could dress completely as you choose, If a workmen came in out of the heat, wiped his brow and removed his shirt and stepped up to the bar, there wouldn't be an uproar, male nipples don't seem to offend.

However if a female came in out of the heat, wiped her brow and removed her shirt and stepped up to the bar, there would be an uproar (women cop hell for even breastfeeding sometimes)

If a Man tried to enter your RSL topless he would be denied entry, which is the establishments right, However if a women tried to enter topless, she may very well be reported to the police and be detained.
 
Hodgie said:
That is quite an annoying rule, at my local RSL they kick any male out that is wearing thongs and/or a singlet past 7pm (also, no hats allowed).

I have asked one of the staff about it and they said it has nothing to do with safety or anything like that, they just require patrons to look 'respectable'.

Obviously we as a society have deemed different types of attire as being considered respectable for each gender.
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Any private establishment can set what ever dress code they like, you can start a club where chicken suits are required if you like.

The hat thing goes back to an old army tradition, In a lot of army boozers, if you walk in wearing a hat people start counting to 10, if your still wearing your hat at the count of 10, you have to shout the bar.
 
Value Collector said:
However if a women tried to enter topless, she may very well be reported to the police and be detained.
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You must be joking. She would be surrounded by males wanting to buy her a drink.

:D

Any private establishment can set what ever dress code they like, you can start a club where chicken suits are required if you like.
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Not arguing about establishment's rights to set dress codes, the point is WHY are men's bare shoulders and armpits considered unseemly, but not women's ?

My RSL would throw out men wearing singlets but let in women wearing similar dress. That seems to be discrimination or judgemental determination of what is appropriate for men and women.

As someone who supports equal rights, you should be opposed to this apparent contradiction.
 
SirRumpole said:
You must be joking. She would be surrounded by males wanting to buy her a drink.

:D


.
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You your self said you would look down on such a girl,

.
As someone who supports equal rights, you should be opposed to this apparent contradiction
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I support the rights of private establishment to maintain any dress code they choose.

i believe if you want to done a dress and some heels they would probably let you in.

The point I am trying to make is different to dress codes, dress codes exist because they want guests to look neat and tidy, not because they are offended by body parts.

Its simple male nipples are ok to show in public, female nipples aren't. You cant honestly say that a female going topless would be judged no differently than a man, if you think she would be your just wrong, there not much else i can say,
 
Value Collector said:
Its simple male nipples are ok to show in public, female nipples aren't. You cant honestly say that a female going topless would be judged no differently than a man, if you think she would be your just wrong, there not much else i can say,
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There's not much else I can say either because you totally ignore the point I was making about dress code discrimination.

Continue your fixation with nipples if you desire, it is irrelevant to whether you can wear a singlet in an RSL.

Value Collector said:
The point I am trying to make is different to dress codes, dress codes exist because they want guests to look neat and tidy, not because they are offended by body parts.
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"Neat and tidy", is a value judgement isn't it ?
 
SirRumpole said:
"Neat and tidy", is a value judgement isn't it ?
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I don't know what you mean by "Value judgement", But basically I guess the people who have been elected by the members of the club to run the club have decided they want guests to look a certain way, any private establishment is within its rights to do that.

If you disagree, speak to fellow members and take it up with the board of directors.

There's not much else I can say either because you totally ignore the point I was making about dress code discrimination.
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That's because I wasn't talking about dress codes. Dress codes are a red herring you brought up, which has nothing to do with what parts of the body people are judged for showing.

yes, you can't wear a singlet after 7pm at your RSL, I don't care about that. that a private organisations rule.

I am talking about how society reacts to a man showing parts of his body compared to a women.


it is irrelevant to whether you can wear a singlet in an RSL.
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Dress codes in RSL's are irrelevant to the point I was making
 
Shhhhhhh someone might hear you !!
 

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