Fake news and its effect on the community

[qldfrog]

Yes, love him.
He appears on the ABCs The Weekly as the UK correspondent sometimes.

He is very funny.

He takes it all on. The Royals and the Conservative Party aren't safe from him either.

Definitely not a Fox stooge repeating right wing mantra, way better than that.

I know.....very good, yet anti Trump ;-)
, was just replying to a post which i find nearly insulting accusing me of feeding on Fox news..would feel as insulted if saying i am a Guardian subscriber even if i have to guiltily admit i was reading the Guardian site daily as one of the few feeds i had access to behind the Chinese internet wall...says it all..

 

[wayneL]

The "Truth " Knobby ? Your truth ? , my truth ? The truth as spoken by the Son of God (in the Black House ) which is faithfully followed by multi million followers.

The truth of White Supremacy ? That our Western Civilization is being threatened by the swarming dark heathen/Islamic masses.

The truth of Fake science that is spooking everyone with tales of Global Warming which are just fantasies of easily spooked, gullibile lefties who don't understand the way the world works.

The Truth of anti-vaccinators who KNOW that "Medical science" is destroying the lives of our children with their deadly vaccines.

The Truth of those who KNOW that children were never killed in those school shootings, that George Floyd was never slowly killed in public but in fact saw his own funeral. That all thse mass shootings are done by actors and the Deep State.

We live in a post-truth world. The determined denial of reality, the trashing of evidence, the creation and promotion of deliberate false narratives without consequence is well and truly alive.

As the Son of God so aptly prophesied.
"I can shoot someone in broad daylight on 5th Avenue and and not lose voters"

Well, at least we know which echo chamber you live in bas.

Because each of your points also have reasonable balancing counterpoints.

Professor Gad Saad has a forthcoming book on these and other idea pathogens which I'm really looking forward to. I would recommend.

 

[Knobby22]

I know.....very good, yet anti Trump ;-)
, was just replying to a post which i find nearly insulting accusing me of feeding on Fox news..would feel as insulted if saying i am a Guardian subscriber even if i have to guiltily admit i was reading the Guardian site daily as one of the few feeds i had access to behind the Chinese internet wall...says it all..

Plenty of Republicans don't like Trump. It's not left wing to think Trump is a problem not a solution.

I think the point that person was trying to make with mentioning Fox is that it is the echo chamber making people so angry that they want to leave the western world. Or in the case of a lefty go in live in Sweden. The truth is that some have gone beyond Fox or the Guardian these days.

I personally think Australia has it pretty good and won't be leaving. Where else I can watch Jonathan Pie on the ABC with no adds what's not to like?

 

[Knobby22]

Not talking about you personally Qldfrog as I know you have other reasons to move and I know that you are a free thinker.

 

[rederob]

The truth is out there, I'm not denying that, just suggesting that most people won't seek to find it on most subjects and that even with really trivial examples, eg the band example, there's often ignorance in practice.

As @basilio points out, the issue is not about what we can easily find to be true, but with what is peddled as true from the outset despite there being nothing that supports it.
A separate issue is what people assume to be true for reasons which are not obvious, or are accepted "on faith."
However, the worst feature of societies is where obviously false claims are legitimised or distorted for gain.

 

[SirRumpole]

So do we ban people for saying bullshite or teach people to think for themselves and not believe anything they read ?

 

[rederob]

So do we ban people for saying bullshite or teach people to think for themselves and not believe anything they read ?

Just point to the evidence, ie. what makes their statement false, misleading or unintelligible.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just point to the evidence, ie. what makes their statement false, misleading or unintelligible.

Yes, I agree, whose job should it be to do this, the platform's management or other users ?

 

[rederob]

Yes, I agree, whose job should it be to do this, the platform's management or other users ?

Good forums are self moderating.
As we have seen here, however, no matter of "evidence" stops people saying things which have no reasoned basis.

 

[qldfrog]

So do we ban people for saying bullshite or teach people to think for themselves and not believe anything they read ?

Very good point: biaised news and propaganda only work on dumb/uneducated people but you can not expect a majority to understand where global warming as described on the mainstream is bull****: to take a heavily heated..pun..subject
you need to have a basic understanding of thermodynamic/entropy, size of athmosphere, weight of gases, then chemistry most people have no clue about co2, even less of radiation/ wavelength. So you turn to a reference.
I turn to reference when i do not know an area..and that reference sadly can be biaised, wrong or deliberately manipulative..not to mentioned areas where it is not black/white..can we still say that?
Ultimately fake news appear..

 

[rederob]

Very good point: biaised news and propaganda only work on dumb/uneducated people but you can not expect a majority to understand where global warming as described on the mainstream is bull****: to take a heavily heated..pun..subject
you need to have a basic understanding of thermodynamic/entropy, size of athmosphere, weight of gases, then chemistry most people have no clue about co2, even less of radiation/ wavelength. So you turn to a reference.
I turn to reference when i do not know an area..and that reference sadly can be biaised, wrong or deliberately manipulative..not to mentioned areas where it is not black/white..can we still say that?
Ultimately fake news appear..

You are commenting on a topic which is a matter of settled science.
You have never shown how your ideas have scientific merit.
It's a bit like when I pointed out your use of statistics was errant, and you continued to use incorrect data.

 

[Smurf1976]

So do we ban people for saying bullshite or teach people to think for themselves and not believe anything they read ?

The former is impossible to implement in practice, it requires verifying billions of statements every day being made everywhere that humans inhabit, whereas the latter only requires educating each person once.

 

[wayneL]

The former is impossible to implement in practice, it requires verifying billions of statements every day being made everywhere that humans inhabit, whereas the latter only requires educating each person once.

Free speech works.

Censorship breeds more extremism.

 

[macca]

Free speech works.

Censorship breeds more extremism.

The right to openly discuss all issues leads to a better society.

If we cannot have a discussion about racism with those that are effected by it, how are we to learn what it is that offends them.

If we cannot ask someone who is "different in any way from typical, average" how does your difference effect your every day life ? then we will never know.

To viciously attack anyone that raises the question simply causes resentment

A recent example is BLM, it was/is considered aggressive if a person expressed the belief that ALL lives matter.

No where was the person disagreeing that BL did not matter, in fact they were actually supporting them as black or white, they hold that all life is important.

By attacking these sincere, caring people the BLM mobs actually alienate those who may have had sympathy for them, now they are offended and consider the mobs to be just that, mobs of stirrers

 

[rederob]

The right to openly discuss all issues leads to a better society.

If we cannot have a discussion about racism with those that are effected by it, how are we to learn what it is that offends them.

If we cannot ask someone who is "different in any way from typical, average" how does your difference effect your every day life ? then we will never know.

To viciously attack anyone that raises the question simply causes resentment

A recent example is BLM, it was/is considered aggressive if a person expressed the belief that ALL lives matter.

No where was the person disagreeing that BL did not matter, in fact they were actually supporting them as black or white, they hold that all life is important.

By attacking these sincere, caring people the BLM mobs actually alienate those who may have had sympathy for them, now they are offended and consider the mobs to be just that, mobs of stirrers

This is a "fake news" thread!
But in response, the view that ALL lives matter can only be true when black lives also matter. Currently, that does not seem to be the case.
Had a person been legitimately sympathetic and caring they would be advocating a more just society.

 

[cynic]

You may expose a zealot to truth, but you cannot make her(him it them, they zer etc.) think!

 

[Knobby22]

You may expose a zealot to truth, but you cannot make her(him it them, they zer etc.) think!

Luckily not everybody is a zealot.

 

[Smurf1976]

But in response, the view that ALL lives matter can only be true when black lives also matter. Currently, that does not seem to be the case.

If the entire staff routinely turn up late for work, and the boss targets one individual in particular whilst ignoring the rest, then they'll quite likely find themselves in trouble for doing so on the grounds of discrimination.

In that example the underling response is reasonable, a manager has a reasonable right to expect that staff turn up to work on time, but the means of addressing it by targeting only one individual whilst ignoring the rest who are guilty of the same thing could certainly be seen as unreasonable and biased.

Same concept with everything. If the problem is people being late or it's racism or it's assault or whatever well then the problem is people being late, racism or assault. Singling out one perpetrator or victim whilst ignoring the rest just fuels unnecessary division in society and sends a very clear message that the target group is not equal to others thus warranting the special treatment.

 

[moXJO]

Luckily not everybody is a zealot.

Ignoring it taking a foothold is just as bad.....

 

[basilio]

As the US election moves into gear Facebook is (actually) taking action to close down some of the fake Facebook sites set up by Russian interests.
Also includes the usual range of Conspiracy websites.

Facebook removes troll network posing as Black Trump supporters
The company says activity by the pro-Trump network originated in Romania

By Kim Lyons Aug 8, 2020, 1:42pm EDT

Facebook removed dozens of accounts it says were part of a troll farm pretending to be African-Americans in support of President Donald Trump and QAnon supporters, the company said, for violating its policies against coordinated inauthentic behavior.

According to a report on its July enforcement activity, Facebook removed 35 Facebook accounts, three pages and 88 Instagram accounts for “violating our policy against foreign interference, which is coordinated inauthentic behavior on behalf of a foreign entity.” Activity by the pro-Trump network originated in Romania, Facebook said, and posted on Instagram using hashtags such as “BlackPeopleVoteForTrump.” The pages had about 1,600 followers on Facebook, and about 7,200 people followed the Instagram accounts.

Facebook described the network in its report:

The people behind this network used fake accounts — some of which had already been detected and disabled by our automated systems — to pose as Americans, amplify and comment on their own content, and manage Pages including some posing as President Trump fan Pages. This network posted about US domestic news and events, including the upcoming November election, the Trump campaign and support for the campaign by African Americans, conservative ideology, Christian beliefs, and Qanon. They also frequently reposted stories by American conservative news networks and the Trump campaign.

Facebook also removed several hundred fake accounts connected to conservative media organization Epoch Media Group, which it says spread conspiracy theories about the coronavirus. That network included 303 Facebook accounts, 181 pages, 44 Facebook groups and 31 Instagram accounts, which had a combined 2 million followers.

According to Facebook’s report, the fake accounts were connected to TruthMedia, a digital outlet it has banned from the platform. In addition to misinformation about the coronavirus and protests in the US, the accounts pushed various conspiracy theories.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/8/2...lack-trump-supporters-fake-accounts-instagram

All the sites Facebook removed and why,
https://about.fb.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/July-2020-CIB-Report.pdf