Mate all I wanted was a pie
Then buy one, and the vender that sells it to you will probably make more money from that $5.50 pie than they do selling some one $60 (40 Liters) of fuel.
In fact your pie is probably subsidizing fuels sales, not being subsidized by fuel sales, so don’t worry 24hr snacks are not going to disappear.
pretty much every McDonald’s in my area is open 24 hours now, and not a single one has a petrol bowser.
2 years old, but this indicates the margins are a lot bigger than you say.
Do they sell piesThen buy one, and the vender that sells it to you will probably make more money from that $5.50 pie than they do selling some one $60 (40 Liters) of fuel.
In fact your pie is probably subsidizing fuels sales, not being subsidized by fuel sales, so don’t worry 24hr snacks are not going to disappear.
pretty much every McDonald’s in my area is open 24 hours now, and not a single one has a petrol bowser.
Not at all.
the article stats “record margins” for Sydney are 10 cents per litre, so Even at that “record margin”
40 liters of fuel = $4 profit, where as that $5.50 pie probably also makes about $4 profit, if you add a coke then earn another $4.
not to mention That the pie oven cost a lot less to maintain than the system of pumps and underground fuel tanks.
As I said their is a reason they always try to up sell you, and The counter is full of stuff they are trying to sell.
Back to the EV stream
I found this page interesting,
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fossil-fuels-energy-content-d_1298.html
providing the energy content for various fuels
Especially when discussing hydrogen cars
Hydrogen is amazing liquid hydrogen is 3 times nearly higher than other LNG, petrol etc..this you will read in the new, the part to be aware of is the actual density
First column
Liquid hydrogen:71kg per cubic meter vs 800 to 900 for diesel or petrol
What does that mean?
For an equal amount of energy storage, your tank will need to be 3 times bigger..10 (density factor)x1/3
As hydrogen store more energy
Conclusion your hydrogen tank will need to be 3 to 4 time bigger than your diesel one
For those old enough , you remember the shuttle enormous side boosters.liquid hydrogen...
So not impossible but a technical challenge especially with the extra compression and protections required in case of fire crash
Just wanted to bring a bit of technology to the debate
We also know that currently it is cheaper to produce hydrogen in Australia from gas ..petroleum or seam gas, than from water splitting..ideally with solar power
Call me pessimistic..or realistic minded
Well United certainly does - Pie Face.Do they sell pies
The other problem with Battery EV as opposed to H2 EV, H2 is easier to tax, grid electricity is a problem as it doesn't just supply EV's and also as VC says most can mitigate their costs with PV.and as discussed before , it is actually a battle of centralised toward..potentially..decentralised source of energy; governments and corporates would probably prefer hydrogen fuel for that reason..
The best would be an hydrogen battery..noting impossible in the concept but probably need mechanical compression so not realistic
So that will mean even bigger tank as you need to store the useless nitrogen!!Haven't we discussed the advance by CSIRO where the hydrogen is stored as liquid ammonia (NH4) and separated in the fuel tank ?
https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2018/CSIRO-tech-accelerates-hydrogen-vehicle-future
None but imagine if the infrastructure is already there whereas the electricity grid is not...How about looking at it the other way around.
Suppose that all cars are electric and someone's proposing that we switch to a system which:
*Requires the consumption of a liquid which needs to be frequently purchased in substantial volume. In practice this requires dedicated retail outlets, it is not practical to supply the required volume in bottles or other containers sold via normal shops, and a network of such facilities will need to be constructed to enable the operation of these vehicles.
*This liquid is toxic to the natural environment if spilled, is extremely flammable and ignites explosively, is a carcinogen and also readily evaporates thus requiring careful storage. Every vehicle needs to carry this material, without which it immediately ceases to operate.
*Production of this liquid requires finding suitable places in which to drill holes in the ground, extracting a liquid which then requires considerable processing to be suitable for use.
*Finding of locations suitable for the drilling of these holes is itself a major and costly exercise. Locations thought to be suitable are, when drilled, often found to be unsuitable in practice.
*Places known to be suitable for the extraction of said liquid are predominantly on the other side of the world, in harsh physical environments and in non-Western countries such that maintaining supplies is likely to involve major political implications and perhaps even an effectively permanent military presence around these locations.
*The liquid in question is a finite resource and will ultimately run out.
*Use of this system involves each vehicle being fitted with something known as an exhaust. This emits an assortment of gases including some which form urban smog, are toxic to humans or which scientists consider likely to alter the planet's climate permanently.
Now apart perhaps from some very specific purposes which do not apply to ordinary consumers or small business, can anyone give me a good reason why we'd switch from EV's to this alternative system which for simplicity we'll refer to as "internal combustion"?
From what I've read frog, about 5kg's of liquid H2 is good for about 500klm, the cylinders will be as oxy or acetelene tanks are now, tested pressure vessels as the hydrogen will be at high pressure.Back to the EV stream
I found this page interesting,
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fossil-fuels-energy-content-d_1298.html
providing the energy content for various fuels
Especially when discussing hydrogen cars
Hydrogen is amazing liquid hydrogen is 3 times nearly higher than other LNG, petrol etc..this you will read in the new, the part to be aware of is the actual density
First column
Liquid hydrogen:71kg per cubic meter vs 800 to 900 for diesel or petrol
What does that mean?
For an equal amount of energy storage, your tank will need to be 3 times bigger..10 (density factor)x1/3
As hydrogen store more energy
Conclusion your hydrogen tank will need to be 3 to 4 time bigger than your diesel one
For those old enough , you remember the shuttle enormous side boosters.liquid hydrogen...
So not impossible but a technical challenge especially with the extra compression and protections required in case of fire crash
Just wanted to bring a bit of technology to the debate
We also know that currently it is cheaper to produce hydrogen in Australia from gas ..petroleum or seam gas, than from water splitting..ideally with solar power
Call me pessimistic..or realistic minded
So that will mean even bigger tank as you need to store the useless nitrogen!!
Pure physics
Back to the EV stream
For those old enough , you remember the shuttle enormous side boosters.liquid hydrogen...
Now that would be one way to make a car move.Space shuttle (solid) rocket boosters were solid propellant type (ammonium perchlorate (oxidizer) and atomized aluminum powder)
This is actually true. They have 400-600% markups on goods in store. Those 24/7 types of stores actually can return your initial investment in the first year when located around certain areas of Sydney.Not at all.
the article stats “record margins” for Sydney are 10 cents per litre, so Even at that “record margin”
40 liters of fuel = $4 profit, where as that $5.50 pie probably also makes about $4 profit, if you add a coke then earn another $4.
not to mention That the pie oven cost a lot less to maintain than the system of pumps and underground fuel tanks.
As I said their is a reason they always try to up sell you, and The counter is full of stuff they are trying to sell.
You misunderstood what i meant70% of the atmosphere is nitrogen froggy, why do you need to store it, just set it free !
My mistake: the boosters you refer to were the small side ones, the huge enormous one was indeed H2 liquid and was the main tankSpace shuttle (solid) rocket boosters were solid propellant type (ammonium perchlorate (oxidizer) and atomized aluminum powder). Have a read at Wikipedia.
Interesting indeedFrom what I've read frog, about 5kg's of liquid H2 is good for about 500klm, the cylinders will be as oxy or acetelene tanks are now, tested pressure vessels as the hydrogen will be at high pressure.
But in reality this isn't a major hurdle, you can already buy liquid H2 bottles from BOC, it wouldn't be a great deal of difference from the filling of LPG and taxis have been doing that for half a century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai
From the article:
The FCV uses Toyota's proprietary, small, light-weight fuel cell stack and two 70 MPa high-pressure hydrogen tanks placed beneath the specially designed body. The Toyota FCV concept can accommodate up to four occupants. For the full-scale market launch in 2015, the cost of the fuel cell system is expected to be 95% lower than that of the 2008 Toyota FCHV-adv.[23]
The Mirai has two hydrogen tanks with a three-layer structure made of carbon fiber-reinforced plastic consisting of nylon 6 from Ube Industries[46] and other materials. The tanks store hydrogen at 70 MPa (10,000 psi). The tanks have a combined weight 87.5 kg (193 lb).[4][42] and 5 kg capacity.
Toyota's news release for the 2021 Mirai refers to a 30% increase in range due to increased hydrogen storage capacity, but does not specify the capacity.
The official Toyota consumption declaration states hydrogen is consumed at the rate of 0.8 kg/100 km (2.8 lb/100 miles) on the combined urban/extra urban cycle.
The biggest problem diesel is going to have is political pressure, as is happening in Europe, where they are to be banned in the next few years.
Which is a shame, because I think they are far better, than petrol engined cars.
The thermodynamic efficiency is higher and the soot particles can be collected with DPF filters, which now are extremely good.
Just my opinion.
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