Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 22.1%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 40.0%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 36 18.5%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.3%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.2%
  • Total voters
    195
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And always the same issue
Embodied energy in batteries is low so we need a lot of these, so EVs are heavy, too heavy...
www.breitbart.com

Study: Electric Vehicle Batteries Make Cars Too Heavy to Be Stopped by Safety Guardrails

A new car safety study has proven that electric vehicles (EVs) are too heavy to be restrained by guardrails.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
The worst is not so much with cars but for utes and semis... horrendous..and the damages on roads, the waste of energy per kw used
 
qldfrog said:
I like the Phev concept and would look at it if i were to change my diesel ute but battery is so small: i need i think around 50km real range otherwise why bother,
And then an inefficient small petrol engine instead of diesel so dead at 200k km?
Byd shark will probably cost half?
Click to expand...
Second hand new generation Mitsubishi outlander, not the older model.
They have a 20kW battery, I think from memory they have a 1.5kva inverter and the best bit they have crap resale value from memory.
 
sptrawler said:
Second hand new generation Mitsubishi outlander, not the older model.
They have a 20kW battery, I think from memory they have a 1.5kva inverter and the best bit they have crap resale value from memory.
Click to expand...

Resale is holding up very well, and possibly better than the diesel equivalent Aspire models.

Early ones had hardly any battery range, I don't know what the current model is like.
 
JohnDe said:
Resale is holding up very well, and possibly better than the diesel equivalent Aspire models.

Early ones had hardly any battery range, I don't know what the current model is like.
Click to expand...
Hum but that type of car is of no interest for me, either a 4wd ute, able to carry 1t in the tray and pull a bogged tractor or excavator, or a tree trunk..
And hold for our regular road trips to a friend inland cattle station
That Ranger /shark might even if i want torque at low speed
And a runaround fir shopping coffee and dunny coast outing our mg zst..i think does the job, cheaply and comfortably
I always thought the second small car would be our first ev but it was a pass when we looked ..no ROI
Ultimately, if we ever change the ute, a Phev ute could be our first ev/hybrid.
Following these developments...
 
JohnDe said:
Resale is holding up very well, and possibly better than the diesel equivalent Aspire models.

Early ones had hardly any battery range, I don't know what the current model is like.
Click to expand...
That's interesting John, the earlier models onlu had a 13kW baatery and a range of about 30_40 km, the new one has a 20kW battrty and a range of about 60_80km, just from memory.
Interesting their resale is holding up.
 
qldfrog said:
I actually wonder how long it will take for our dimwits in charge to put a 50 % or 100% tarif on Chinese made EVs.
After all, if US and EU are doing it, why won't we..and look at the amount of extra taxes for NDIS and smoke ceremonies
Click to expand...
What would the point of that be? we have no local car industry to protect, so it would just literally be a tax on vehicles and the consumer.

Your head is really cabbaged up mate.
 
qldfrog said:
And always the same issue
Embodied energy in batteries is low so we need a lot of these, so EVs are heavy, too heavy...
www.breitbart.com

Study: Electric Vehicle Batteries Make Cars Too Heavy to Be Stopped by Safety Guardrails

A new car safety study has proven that electric vehicles (EVs) are too heavy to be restrained by guardrails.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
The worst is not so much with cars but for utes and semis... horrendous..and the damages on roads, the waste of energy per kw used
Click to expand...
Hahaha, really you are going to quote an article from that source??? No wonder you believe the crazy things you do.

As for wasted energy, combustion engines waste so much more energy than EV’s. Not to mention all the energy wasted moving oil and turning it into diesel or petrol before you even burn it.
 
qldfrog said:
And always the same issue
Embodied energy in batteries is low so we need a lot of these, so EVs are heavy, too heavy...
www.breitbart.com

Study: Electric Vehicle Batteries Make Cars Too Heavy to Be Stopped by Safety Guardrails

A new car safety study has proven that electric vehicles (EVs) are too heavy to be restrained by guardrails.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
The worst is not so much with cars but for utes and semis... horrendous..and the damages on roads, the waste of energy per kw used
Click to expand...

That reminds me of an article I read a few weeks ago -

What to do about America’s killer cars

The country’s roads are nearly twice as dangerous as the rich-world average. It doesn’t have to be that way

1727217614714.png

THE NEXT time you are stuck in traffic, look around you. Not at the cars, but the passengers. If you are in America, the chances are that one in 75 of them will be killed by a car—most of those by someone else’s car. Wherever you may be, the folk cocooned in a giant SUV or pickup truck are likelier to survive a collision with another vehicle. But the weight of their machines has a cost, because it makes the roads more dangerous for everyone else. The Economist has found that, for every life the heaviest 1% of SUVs or trucks saves in America, more than a dozen lives are lost in smaller vehicles. This makes traffic jams an ethics class on wheels.

Each year cars kill roughly 40,000 people in America—and not just because it is a big place where people love to drive. The country’s roads are nearly twice as dangerous per mile driven as those in the rest of the rich world. Deaths there involving cars have increased over the past decade, despite the introduction of technology meant to make driving safer.

Weight is to blame. Using data for 7.5m crashes in 14 American states in 2013-23, we found that for every 10,000 crashes the heaviest vehicles kill 37 people in the other car, compared with 5.7 for cars of a median weight and just 2.6 for the lightest. The situation is getting worse. In 2023, 31% of new cars in America weighed over 5,000lb (2.27 tonnes), compared with 22% in 2018. The number of pedestrians killed by cars has almost doubled since 2010. Although a typical car is 25% lighter in Europe and 40% lighter in Japan, electrification will add weight there too, exacerbating the gap between the heaviest vehicles and the lightest. The Ford F-150 Lightning weighs around 40% more than its petrol-engine cousin, because of the battery that moves all those lithium ions from cathode to anode.

This poses a giant collective-action problem. Individually, it is rational for people to buy bigger cars. As Tony Soprano once said to his son A.J. when discussing SUVs, “So you want to be the sucker in a regular car who gets decapitated?” Yet the sum of those decisions is much more lethal roads, as well as more expensive car insurance.

In theory, regulators could insist that vehicles were lighter. Good luck with that. Pickup drivers love sitting behind the wheel of a huge truck. Running for election on a platform of banning massive cars would be a metrosexual caricature. In America it is hard enough to persuade gun owners to embrace sensible gun laws, because of a mistaken belief that guns make people safer. For big cars that argument is even harder to make, because up to a point it is actually true.

What, then, could make roads safer? As people become aware of the risk their choices impose on everyone else, attitudes to owning gigantic cars may change. This need not come at any cost to their drivers’ safety. We estimate that if the heaviest 10% of vehicles in America’s fleet shrank by roughly 1,000lb, road fatalities in multi-car crashes would fall by 12%, or 2,300 a year, without sacrificing the safety of the heavier cars.

Attitudes can be nudged with reforms. Bizarrely, the government body that rates cars for safety did not propose taking the safety of pedestrians or other vehicles into consideration until last year. Because of a trade dispute with Europe over exports of poultry, many lighter foreign-made trucks are not even sold in America, a wrinkle known as the “chicken tax”. Tax deductions for working vehicles encourage people to buy trucks. Fuel standards, introduced in the 1970s to boost efficient vehicles, gave pickups a carve-out, inadvertently boosting their sales. The gradient could even tilt in the other direction. In 2022 France introduced a surcharge on new vehicles of €10 ($11) per kg over 1,800kg (4,000lb). In 2023 Norway began taxing car buyers at a rate of NKr12.50 ($1.17) per kg over 500kg.

Yet even if all those things were to change, consumer preferences are so strong that adjustments to fuel-efficiency standards would probably not be enough. That suggests another line of attack: as well as making cars lighter, you can make accidents rarer and less deadly.

In America the first step should be to redesign the road system. In the early 1990s the French were about as likely as Americans to die in a car crash (which worked out as being about twice as likely to die per mile). Now they are three times less likely. Driving in Mississippi is four times as dangerous as in Massachusetts. In both cases the design of roads explains much of the difference.

It may seem arcane, but the lack of roundabouts in suburban and rural America is a big cause of deaths. Replacing intersections would save thousands of lives a year. The spread of stroads, four-lane highways that sit next to shopping malls, mixing pedestrians and cars turning out into traffic with heavy vehicles travelling at 50mph, is dangerous too. American highway engineers tend to associate wide lanes with safety. In fact, space encourages people to drive faster.

That points to a second step relevant everywhere: getting people to slow down. Because the energy—and hence destructive power—of a moving vehicle rises with the square of its velocity, finding ways to limit speed has an outsize effect. A good start would be to enforce the laws on speed limits that actually exist. Instead, plenty of American states ban speed cameras. More ambitious (meaning less popular) would be differential speed limits for heavier cars. Imagine the indignity of being overtaken by a Prius as you sit behind the wheel of your Chevy Silverado pickup, because you must travel 5mph more slowly to avoid being fined or losing your driving licence.

American car-nage​

Ultimately, carmakers can innovate away a problem they have done so much to create. Better crash-avoidance technology and more pedestrian-protection systems with airbags would help. True self-driving cars, when they eventually become common, will greatly reduce the number of accidents and hence the death toll, even with heavy vehicles. Unfortunately, that could be years away. In the meantime, the task of saving lives will fall mainly to road engineers and traffic cops. ■
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Company purchased 2nd Tesla
It done a trip to Cooktown, top up via Mareeba. Given to rcw1 get more juice into it. Received instructions from kin who drive em … rcw1 drove to Raintrees Shipping Centre Cairns, parked up into Evie fast charger park.

Hooked her up and rang in, 80% paid for … was at 10%.
Took 35 minutes.
Interesting adventure. The car got some balls ..

Kind regards
Rcw1
 
SirRumpole said:
Worldwide(almost) consumer preference for hybrids has ev makers changing their plans.

www.abc.net.au

Why hybrids are charging ahead of EVs in the battle for dominance in Australia's green revolution

Sales of hybrid cars in Australia have charged ahead of demand for electric vehicles, reflecting a global trend that has seen major car makers scale back their EV production targets. Here's what it could mean for Australian consumers.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Click to expand...
A well designed hybrid gives you some of the advantages of an EV without the capital cost, and less reliance on the grid. Obviously maintenance costs are higher but due to improved car design these costs aren't too bad and in any case we are used to them.

EV tipping point will only be reached if the price is the same and with many of Tesla’s best competitors being subject to tariffs world wide, this may take some time.
 
Knobby22 said:
A well designed hybrid gives you some of the advantages of an EV without the capital cost, and less reliance on the grid. Obviously maintenance costs are higher but due to improved car design these costs aren't too bad and in any case we are used to them.

EV tipping point will only be reached if the price is the same and with many of Tesla’s best competitors being subject to tariffs world wide, this may take some time.
Click to expand...
As we do not make vehicles of any kind here in OZ, slapping tariffs on them makes little sense, unless you want to play favourites or want a particular type of vehicle.
If overseas manufacturers, be they Chinese, American or European, can see a market her where they can dump their output, that what will happen.
Manufacturers in Japan and Thailand have an advantage in that their own home markets drive on the same side as us, so any extra production can more easily be tilted our way.
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
As we do not make vehicles of any kind here in OZ, slapping tariffs on them makes little sense, unless you want to play favourites or want a particular type of vehicle.
If overseas manufacturers, be they Chinese, American or European, can see a market her where they can dump their output, that what will happen.
Manufacturers in Japan and Thailand have an advantage in that their own home markets drive on the same side as us, so any extra production can more easily be tilted our way.
Mick
Click to expand...
100%
Yes, we should take advantage. Crazy for us to put tariffs on. We can use them as a threat should we be subject to trade restrictions in the future
 
All this in the context of china being our key export market by far directly or indirectly.
If we can get EV here below cost or even anywhere near chinese cost: please please please
After all, they are built using our energy and materials , we are overcharged enough domestically
 
qldfrog said:
I actually wonder how long it will take for our dimwits in charge to put a 50 % or 100% tarif on Chinese made EVs.
After all, if US and EU are doing it, why won't we..and look at the amount of extra taxes for NDIS and smoke ceremonies
Click to expand...
are we allowed to bet in days/weeks/months or milliseconds ?

we are led by the same type of tax vacuums as the rest of the G7 , so we can be led by the geniuses that do 0.5% rate cuts in 'strong'/'booming'/'resilient' economies
 
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