Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

My diesel ute goes from using 12 litres/100kms at 100 kms/hr down to 15 or 16 when towing a 2.2 tonne offroad van.
It may come as a surprise, but a lot of caravaners do not stay in Caravan Parks.

Good for you, use your diesel ute then.

The last heavy thing I towed with my old commodore was a U Haul trailer when I moved from Sydney to Brisbane, easily more than doubled the fuel consumption.

I am guessing though that a lot of people do use caravan parks, that's kinda why they exist right? and not every one that might get value out of a caravan twice a year to visit their favourite beach side town wants to drive a diesel ute the rest of the year, so knowing that they car tow a van or even just a jet ski with the same EV they use as their daily commute would have value wouldn't it?

 

[mullokintyre]

Good for you, use your diesel ute then.

The last heavy thing I towed with my old commodore was a U Haul trailer when I moved from Sydney to Brisbane, easily more than doubled the fuel consumption.

You would be surprised at the improved fuel efficiency of modern tow vehicles.
Thats why people buy them for towing.

I am guessing though that a lot of people do use caravan parks, that's kinda why they exist right? and not every one that might get value out of a caravan twice a year to visit their favourite beach side town wants to drive a diesel ute the rest of the year, so knowing that they car tow a van or even just a jet ski with the same EV they use as their daily commute would have value wouldn't it?

Perhaps asking a few people who go vanning/camping is a much smarter idea than just guessing.
You are oblivious to the army of grey nomads, families doing the lap.
There are pensioners who travel small distances in the pension cycle who have no home other than their van.
So many caravan parks have a majority of permanents.
And if I have to pay 90 bucks a night for a powered site, its little wonder people pour over wikiicamps to see the places you can camp in for free or a small donation.
When I am travelling I would be lucky to be in a caravan park one night in two weeks to refill tanks.
Caravan parks are like everything else, expensive, tied down with tape of every colour, and no fun if you like the quiet of a remote site.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

You would be surprised at the improved fuel efficiency of modern tow vehicles.
Thats why people buy them for towing.

Perhaps asking a few people who go vanning/camping is a much smarter idea than just guessing.
You are oblivious to the army of grey nomads, families doing the lap.
There are pensioners who travel small distances in the pension cycle who have no home other than their van.
So many caravan parks have a majority of permanents.
And if I have to pay 90 bucks a night for a powered site, its little wonder people pour over wikiicamps to see the places you can camp in for free or a small donation.
When I am travelling I would be lucky to be in a caravan park one night in two weeks to refill tanks.
Caravan parks are like everything else, expensive, tied down with tape of every colour, and no fun if you like the quiet of a remote site.
Mick

Well imagine that people that are real towing enthusiasts buy vehicles that suit their needs, but people that just want to tow a van 150km north or south for the easter long week end or Christmas break, or tow a fishing boat or jet ski to the boat ramp would be quite happy to use their EV.

You are falling for the old cliché argument of if its not good in 100% of situations then its not good, this is clearly not true.

I don't really care what people use to power their cars, I am clipping a profit margin on all the diesel, petrol, LPG, or electricity people use, so I don't mind at all. But clearly there are more and more Ev's out there, and more and more places to charge them, so the situations on where they can be used, they will be used more and more.

 

[mullokintyre]

Well imagine that people that are real towing enthusiasts buy vehicles that suit their needs, but people that just want to tow a van 150km north or south for the easter long week end or Christmas break, or tow a fishing boat or jet ski to the boat ramp would be quite happy to use their EV.

You are falling for the old cliché argument of if its not good in 100% of situations then its not good, this is clearly not true.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Pot. Kettle. Black.
Mick

what are you talking about? this whole conversation started because I pointed out that potentially the person towing the caravan could charge at their destination, which then spurred you to once again go on a rant that not everyone that tows caravan uses powered camps sites, and how happy you are to use diesel. My point is just that some people do use powered sites, and those that do will find Ev's very useful, no one is suggesting you stop using diesel if thats what you prefer, (I support it, the profit margins on the oil wells in my portfolio are higher than the electrical generation, although the electricity is decently profitable too, hence why I don't care, not to mention that all vehicles and caravans are made of steel, so I encourage the purchase of any vehicles or caravan, its good for my fmg shares )

If you do camp in remote places, don't use an Ev, it's just common sense you don't have to point out that some people like to drive the nullobor or drive to cape York every time some one talks about using an Ev to tow a caravan.

 

[mullokintyre]

what are you talking about? this whole conversation started because I pointed out that potentially the person towing the caravan could charge at their destination, which then spurred you to once again go on a rant that not everyone that tows caravan uses powered camps sites, and how wh apply you are to use diesel. My point is just that some people do, and those that do will find Ev's very useful, no one is suggesting you stop using diesel if thats what you prefer, (I kind support it, the profit margins on the oil wells in my portfolio are higher than the electrical generation, although the electricity is decently profitable too, hence why I don't care, not to mention that all vehicles and caravan are made of steel, so I encourage the purchase of any vehicles or caravan its good for my fmg shares )

If you do camp in remote places, don't use an Ev, it's just common sense you don't have to point out that some people like to drive the nullobor or drive to cape York every time some one talks about using an Ev to tow a caravan.

You stated

I am guessing though that a lot of people do use caravan parks, that's kinda why they exist right

I pointed out that guessing is not a smart way to demonstrate a point.
I also supplied you with some real world observations of what happens out there in caravan land as someone who has towed a van through a fair chunk of Oz.
You obviously are not terribly au fait with the use of vans and caravan parks.
A caravan park does not have the infrastructure to be able to charge too many electric vehicles.
Vans have 15 amp plugs, and in my experience, the breakers trip on overload quite regularly when there is close to full occupancy when the vans have their aircon, TV, electric heaters and cookers going.
They are not going to cope with such a load increase.
Some do not allow it at all.
We took the BYD to Lakes Entrance last year, and one caravan park with a cabin where we stayed on the way back would not let us plug in to the external powerpoint as their sub boards would not cope.
Another caravan park in Temora with a cabin wanted to charge $40 for the privilege.

Mick

 

[Value Collector]

You stated

I pointed out that guessing is not a smart way to demonstrate a point.
I also supplied you with some real world observations of what happens out there in caravan land as someone who has towed a van through a fair chunk of Oz.
You obviously are not terribly au fait with the use of vans and caravan parks.
A caravan park does not have the infrastructure to be able to charge too many electric vehicles.
Vans have 15 amp plugs, and in my experience, the breakers trip on overload quite regularly when there is close to full occupancy when the vans have their aircon, TV, electric heaters and cookers going.
They are not going to cope with such a load increase.
Some do not allow it at all.
We took the BYD to Lakes Entrance last year, and one caravan park with a cabin where we stayed on the way back would not let us plug in to the external powerpoint as their sub boards would not cope.
Another caravan park in Temora with a cabin wanted to charge $40 for the privilege.

Mick

No the conversation with you started when I said - “Towing a van reduces the range of all vehicles, but one handy thing is you can charge car right at your caravan site when you arrive.”

And before you carry on your rant, can you atleast pause and take a breath and realise that the video from the comment I was replying to, was of a guy actually using a caravan park powered site, which kind of made your whole rant that you butted in with pointless.

You went on your standard rant about not everyone staying in caravan parks and that some people like to go to remote places.

But what ever pleases you mate, do that. I don’t really care, my point is simply EV’s work for some people and that number is probably growing.

I never said anything about EV’s being perfect for all situations, that’s a straw man you built that you are arguing against, not my actually point.

 

[IFocus]

As an aside the Tesla driver I saw towing the van had a smile on his face unlike the smug look of those fully rigged up Landcruiser drivers have, if I was driving the 200 series V8 with noise I would also be looking smug.

Don't know if the same applies to 300 series...

 

[JohnDe]

A levelheaded explanation -

Electric Car sales are falling off a cliff because consumers don't want them, so why is 'big' government insisting on coming for our ICE car keys? What's the truth behind the 'global EV sales slowdown' and what are the details of the internal combustion engine car ban? UK Government seems set to reset the Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Mandate back to before 'Rishi's reversal - but what does it mean? What role will hybrids play? Will you be forced to dump the pump? And most important of all, how long can you keep your keys to your precious petrol car?​

 

[mullokintyre]

Got an email from one of the 8 billion EV Charging companies out there.
Elanga tells me that EV users in Chatswood have variable prices.
Not sure why i need to know, I have never charged there, aits a long way from home.
bet the place is empty between 5 and 7 pm.
at 90 cents a KWH
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Got an email from one of the 8 billion EV Charging companies out there.
Elanga tells me that EV users in Chatswood have variable prices.
Not sure why i need to know, I have never charged there, aits a long way from home.
bet the place is empty between 5 and 7 pm.
at 90 cents a KWH
Mick

View attachment 184561

It might be empty between 5-7pm, but who knows, petrol stations are pretty busy even when fuel is $2 a litre, if you drive Uber and need to charge you will, but if you can choose a better time you won’t.

But yeah, they are trying to augment people’s charging based on pricing, electricity is super expensive during those times, you just don’t notice it at home because they electricity company over charges you during the rest of the day to compensate for the losses they make during peak times.

Right now at mid day electricity pricing is negative, but tonight at 5 it will be really expensive.

 

[sptrawler]

European auto industry calls for ‘urgent relief’ as electric car sales decline

The lobby group representing Europe-based vehicle manufacturers has called for action due to the “continual downward trajectory” of electric car sales.

www.drive.com.au

 

[mullokintyre]

European auto industry calls for ‘urgent relief’ as electric car sales decline

The lobby group representing Europe-based vehicle manufacturers has called for action due to the “continual downward trajectory” of electric car sales.

www.drive.com.au

Its always about subsidies.
Money from the public purse fowing to the private purse.
Nice scam if you can get on it.

Mick

 

[sptrawler]

Its always about subsidies.
Money from the public purse fowing to the private purse.
Nice scam if you can get on it.

Mick

Yes it is a hard one you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
It is going to be really difficult for the legacy car manufacturers to compete with Chinese brands, China can out subsidies all Western manufacturers, their cost base is considerably less and they have deeper pockets.
Tarrifs and forcing China to even up the trade imbalance is really all that can be done and Trump was chucked out over trying to do just that, so who knows where it all goes from here.

EV's are only the first cab off the rank, because they are in the public eye, but China's manufacturing base is so diversified and large, most industries are under threat.

How the West deals with it will be interesting, everything the West has, that underpins its currencies has just about been sold off, or offshored to China.

It really is a bigger problem than most people realise IMO, it's ok saying who cares, but when china supply everything and start revaluing their currency, it isn't as though we can say stuff them we wont buy a fridge because they cost too much.

If China is the only place that makes fridges, you will pay it.
Same with EV's, grid connected batteries, you name it and odds are it will come from China, because they can price everyone out of business and that's what they are doing.

Only the multinationals that have their manufacturing plants in China are doing ok.
Again another reason Trump was chucked out, the last thing they wanted was to have to return their manufacturing to the U.S, imagine the profit drop. Lol

Anyway there wont be many vehicle manufacturers in the West, if they don't subsidies and impose tarrifs on Chinese EV's.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes it is a hard one you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
It is going to be really difficult for the legacy car manufacturers to compete with Chinese brands, China can out subsidies all Western manufacturers, their cost base is considerably less and they have deeper pockets.
Tarrifs and forcing China to even up the trade imbalance is really all that can be done and Trump was chucked out over trying to do just that, so who knows where it all goes from here.

EV's are only the first cab off the rank, because they are in the public eye, but China's manufacturing base is so diversified and large, most industries are under threat.

How the West deals with it will be interesting, everything the West has, that underpins its currencies has just about been sold off, or offshored to China.

It really is a bigger problem than most people realise IMO, it's ok saying who cares, but when china supply everything and start revaluing their currency, it isn't as though we can say stuff them we wont buy a fridge because they cost too much.

If China is the only place that makes fridges, you will pay it.
Same with EV's, grid connected batteries, you name it and odds are it will come from China, because they can price everyone out of business and that's what they are doing.

Only the multinationals that have their manufacturing plants in China are doing ok.
Again another reason Trump was chucked out, the last thing they wanted was to have to return their manufacturing to the U.S, imagine the profit drop. Lol

Anyway there wont be many vehicle manufacturers in the West, if they don't subsidies and impose tarrifs on Chinese EV's.

If tariffs just make the better options more expensive so that worse local options can compete, it’s not a great thing though.

Tesla has shown it is possible for the west to create new companies from nothing.

 

[sptrawler]

If tariffs just make the better options more expensive so that worse local options can compete, it’s not a great thing though.

Tesla has shown it is possible for the west to create new companies from nothing.

Yes and they are making ours in China.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes and they are making ours in China.

Yep, and made of iron ore from Australia probably, it’s a global economy.

Mine came from California, and they could keep shipping them from there, or from Germany, but of course we are closer to China. So it makes sense to ship it from there.

Most of the worlds population is in Asia, so it makes sense most of the worlds production will be there, and they are also our biggest export market. Mercantilism is dead.

 

[sptrawler]

Yep, and made of iron ore from Australia probably, it’s a global economy.

Which works well, while we have iron ore to sell and we get the ongoing high returns for it to support our lifestyle.
Which goes back to the point I was making.

 

[sptrawler]

Mine came from California, and they could keep shipping them from there, or from Germany, but of course we are closer to China. So it makes sense to ship it from there.

They could come from the U.S or Germany, but they are struggling to stay profitable manufacturing them there, without tarrifs or sbsidies they can't compete with the Chinese manufacturng costs.

Oh hang on that was what I my original post was about. Lol

 

[Value Collector]

They could come from the U.S or Germany, but they are struggling to stay profitable manufacturing them there, without tarrifs or sbsidies they can't compete with the Chinese manufacturng costs.

Oh hang on that was what I my original post was about. Lol

Who is “they”, not Tesla.