Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...s/news-story/f9337c5dc80ab4520ee253f692f137c5

big hit piece.

I've always questioned how quickly the uptake would roll out. I called a decade back in 2019 to see a dominance. There has been a major shift in sentiment towards ev dominance though.

It’s a bit of a silly article , the author seems to think that electric cars getting cheaper and increasing their range is a bad thing .

His main point seems to be resale value of EV’s dropping which is a bad sign in his opinion because people consider their cars as “Investments”???

Even if you do have the value of your EV drop a bit faster because new ones are getting better and cheaper, to use an “Investment“ analogy its just kind of like a bond who’s market value drops because the interest rates on newer ones are higher, but the owner of the older bond still gets everything they signed up for, and just like a bond the closer to maturity they hold it the more value they extract from it directly and don’t rely on market resale prices.

The funny thing is the guy admits he has probably put his mechanics son through private school from the amount he has paid maintaining petrol cars, but so far in 5 years my Ev has only cost $160 for a replacement 12 volt battery, which petrol cars need to, there has been no other maintenance in nearly 60,000 kms, and the majority of fuel comes off my roof, but yeah it’s my resale value I should focus on, because cars are investments

 

[JohnDe]

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...s/news-story/f9337c5dc80ab4520ee253f692f137c5

big hit piece.

I've always questioned how quickly the uptake would roll out. I called a decade back in 2019 to see a dominance. There has been a major shift in sentiment towards ev dominance though.

Early adopters always pay a premium, and manufacturers late to the party pay the price. Look at Nokia and Kodak as examples.

Everyone has their reasons when purchasing a product, everyone has to weigh up the pros and cons.

I purchased a Tesla M3LR after 2 years contemplating a sporty car, even a convertible. In the end I couldn’t substantiate the depreciation of a European car, and its maintenance costs. Plus my business could use the opportunity to assess an EV.

I have two every day vehicles, one requires servicing every 9 months and petrol. The other requires no servicing and no fuel, using mostly solar generated electricity.

 

[moXJO]

It’s a bit of a silly article , the author seems to think that electric cars getting cheaper and increasing their range is a bad thing .

His main point seems to be resale value of EV’s dropping which is a bad sign in his opinion because people consider their cars as “Investments”???

Even if you do have the value of your EV drop a bit faster because new ones are getting better and cheaper, to use an “Investment“ analogy its just kind of like a bond who’s market value drops because the interest rates on newer ones are higher, but the owner of the older bond still gets everything they signed up for, and just like a bond the closer to maturity they hold it the more value they extract from it directly and don’t rely on market resale prices.

The funny thing is the guy admits he has probably put his mechanics son through private school from the amount he has paid maintaining petrol cars, but so far in 5 years my Ev has only cost $160 for a replacement 12 volt battery, which petrol cars need to, there has been no other maintenance in nearly 60,000 kms, and the majority of fuel comes off my roof, but yeah it’s my resale value I should focus on, because cars are investments

I'm sure it's in Tesla's plans to make evs cheaper.
Hybrids ate being pushed which in my opinion is the worst of both worlds.

The problem though is it will stall investment into the infrastructure needed. Feels like a shift away from the direction we were heading 2 years ago.

 

[Smurf1976]

the low hanging fruit will be the first to be taken up by Electric.

Garbage trucks and urban public transport buses are extreme examples. They spend many hours on the road but only cover relatively short distances and they're routinely parked at a known, fixed location for considerable periods when not in use. Plus they do a number of stops and starts that's incomprehensively large compared to most other vehicles and their use is primarily in an urban environment where air pollution and noise is a concern.

Perfect use case for electric.

 

[Value Collector]

Garbage trucks and urban public transport buses are extreme examples. They spend many hours on the road but only cover relatively short distances and they're routinely parked at a known, fixed location for considerable periods when not in use. Plus they do a number of stops and starts that's incomprehensively large compared to most other vehicles and their use is primarily in an urban environment where air pollution and noise is a concern.

Perfect use case for electric.

Yep, and then the next low hanging fruit just above them is the trucks doing runs from distribution centres (think the Cole’s and woolies distribution centres) out to retail locations and back, where most of their delivers are within 100km of the distribution centre.

Pepsi is already using Tesla semi trucks in this role at a couple of its bottling plants.

then after that there is line haul on major routes between cities, where infrastructure can be easily installed.

this is a great video showing that Pepsi is having good success with EV trucks to lower costs.

 

[sptrawler]

Garbage trucks and urban public transport buses are extreme examples. They spend many hours on the road but only cover relatively short distances and they're routinely parked at a known, fixed location for considerable periods when not in use. Plus they do a number of stops and starts that's incomprehensively large compared to most other vehicles and their use is primarily in an urban environment where air pollution and noise is a concern.

Perfect use case for electric.

On that issue, it is starting to be implemented.

Electric garbage truck trialled in regional Australia drives 'like a limousine'

With the take-up of electric vehicles across Australia commercial market considered "pretty modest" so far, those supporting an EV garbage truck trial in Shepparton believe its important to start chipping away towards a transition.

www.abc.net.au

 

[JohnDe]

On that issue, it is starting to be implemented.

Electric garbage truck trialled in regional Australia drives 'like a limousine'

With the take-up of electric vehicles across Australia commercial market considered "pretty modest" so far, those supporting an EV garbage truck trial in Shepparton believe its important to start chipping away towards a transition.

www.abc.net.au

Yes, change is going to happen fast. Blink and you'll miss it.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/electric-cars.21658/page-467#post-1278176

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Transport

“For us as an operator, the electric buses are better to operate”
- Michael Sewards, Co-CEO, Kinetic [Australasia’s biggest bus network]​

 

[qldfrog]

Early adopters always pay a premium, and manufacturers late to the party pay the price. Look at Nokia and Kodak as examples.

Everyone has their reasons when purchasing a product, everyone has to weigh up the pros and cons.

I purchased a Tesla M3LR after 2 years contemplating a sporty car, even a convertible. In the end I couldn’t substantiate the depreciation of a European car, and its maintenance costs. Plus my business could use the opportunity to assess an EV.

I have two every day vehicles, one requires servicing every 9 months and petrol. The other requires no servicing and no fuel, using mostly solar generated electricity.

View attachment 178047

Is your 40% other recharge, free recharge?
That could explain a lot of the benefit..
Please note that when I did my EV vs ICE on an MG car a year or so ago, even with 0 cost for recharge ever, I still could not breakeven and ICE was the financially responsible choice.
As you mentioned, everyone is different, I never dream of any luxury car beener, audi or others.
But I still believe that for the time being, EVs are still a first adopter market.
Tech passionates, look at me, political/religious display(aka Green flag), and only a very few niche users: high city mileage on short distance with easy free recharge.
That may change with fines on ICE, and mire EV subsidies.
I post an interesting survey on the German experience

 

[qldfrog]

Elektroautos in der Krise: Hälfte aller E-Auto-Besitzer bereut den Kauf

Der Markt für Elektroautos stagniert. Viele Deutsche sind wegen der fehlenden Förderung verunsichert. Eine Erholung ist kurzfristig nicht in Sicht.

www.merkur.de

Translate via google

Electric cars in crisis: Half of all e-car owners regret buying one​

 

[Value Collector]

Is your 40% other recharge, free recharge?
That could explain a lot of the benefit..
Please note that when I did my EV vs ICE on an MG car a year or so ago, even with 0 cost for recharge ever, I still could not breakeven and ICE was the financially responsible choice.
As you mentioned, everyone is different, I never dream of any luxury car beener, audi or others.
But I still believe that for the time being, EVs are still a first adopter market.
Tech passionates, look at me, political/religious display(aka Green flag), and only a very few niche users: high city mileage on short distance with easy free recharge.
That may change with fines on ICE, and mire EV subsidies.
I post an interesting survey on the German experience

When you did your calculations did you also factor in lower maintenance costs?

Because when I did the calculations of both fuel savings and maintenance over the life of the vehicle the cost savings were about $70,000 and that’s about what I paid for the car, so it’s better than break even.

Add to that the time savings of not have to go to the petrol station each year (8hours per year), not having to leave the car at the mechanic all day twice a year, and you have some pretty solid benefits.

But I know, I know, I know the Nullarbor high way exists, and I know you naturally have a dislike for anything that might represent change.

 

[Knobby22]

Is your 40% other recharge, free recharge?
That could explain a lot of the benefit..
Please note that when I did my EV vs ICE on an MG car a year or so ago, even with 0 cost for recharge ever, I still could not breakeven and ICE was the financially responsible choice.
As you mentioned, everyone is different, I never dream of any luxury car beener, audi or others.
But I still believe that for the time being, EVs are still a first adopter market.
Tech passionates, look at me, political/religious display(aka Green flag), and only a very few niche users: high city mileage on short distance with easy free recharge.
That may change with fines on ICE, and mire EV subsidies.
I post an interesting survey on the German experience

Tesla cars and now mid 50k, no subsidies. They were mid 70ks not that long ago.
The value equation is getting better quickly. Agree, still in early adopter zone though, but not real early.

There is a car petrol fume culture that will take longer to break and there will always be old guys bemoaning their passing, similar to when steam engine railway vehicles were supplanted.

I have a friend who is a motor head and he was bereft when his fellow motor head bought a sporty Tesla for the G effects.

 

[Value Collector]

Tesla cars and now mid 50k, no subsidies. They were mid 70ks not that long ago.
The value equation is getting better quickly. Agree, still in early adopter zone though, but not real early.

There is a car petrol fume culture that will take longer to break and there will always be old guys bemoaning their passing, similar to when steam engine railway vehicles were supplanted.

I have a friend who is a motor head and he was bereft when his fellow motor head bought a sporty Tesla for the G effects.

Yeah, Some people still ride horses on the weekend for fun, and I have a guy in my neighbourhood that drives a vintage Model T ford around every now and then, the petrol heads don’t need to be sad, they can still keep their hobby. But for the vast majority commuting daily, over time the benefits of EV’s will become more understood, and the shift will come faster and faster.

 

[qldfrog]

Tesla cars and now mid 50k, no subsidies. They were mid 70ks not that long ago.
The value equation is getting better quickly. Agree, still in early adopter zone though, but not real early.

There is a car petrol fume culture that will take longer to break and there will always be old guys bemoaning their passing, similar to when steam engine railway vehicles were supplanted.

I have a friend who is a motor head and he was bereft when his fellow motor head bought a sporty Tesla for the G effects.

And you can get a Chinese Haval ute for nearly half the price with 7 y warranty, or for less than half an MG zst....a lot of maintenance and fuel for the 30k difference...not mentioning the 4.5% return on saved money, even more if you have any debt.
Still not a $ wise choice, but yes getting better, and then when $ sense is reached, perfect for second car.
In the last fortnight , I drove 4 sets of 800km or more stretches in 4 days,
Would not have been possible in an EV..probably would add 2 days to the trip..to smell the roses..as for the Atherton to Emerald stretch good luck
But yes as a city runabout for people living in individual houses with solar, and when it will make sense moneywise.
Hopefully will improve with different battery and they will bring ammonia asa fuel for ICE

 

[Value Collector]

And you can get a Chinese Haval ute for nearly half the price with 7 y warranty, or for less than half an MG zst....a lot of maintenance and fuel for the 30k difference..

Have you done the Math on that?

By the time that Haval being used for the daily commute hits 7 years of age doing 20,000 km per year, its used $21,000 of fuel, and just the dealer log book servicing with nothing else breaking is going to cost around $4680.

So that Haval consumes $25,680 of fuel and maintenance over the first 7 years, an EV could reduce that by about $18,000 (more if solar is utilised), and thats at todays fuel prices, over the coming years both fuel and maintenance is probably going to get more expensive.

 

[basilio]

The Electric Car Revolution is Coming Crashing Down – The Daily Sceptic

The state-subsidised electric car market has crashed in China and the country is trying to dump the vehicles on the West, but the same is happening here as well. For manufacturers it's going to be a blood bath.

dailysceptic.org

Indeed. And of course climate change is a hoax. Electric cars cost more to run than ICE cars. The usual tosh

 

[ijrob6]

Tesla cars and now mid 50k, no subsidies. They were mid 70ks not that long ago.

My Tesla model Y RWD cost me $68,900 base plus costs on 5/9/22 - not mid $70s. Same model now $55,900plus costs.
So not quite as dramatic as you write.
Bad for me, good for new buyers.
Don't regret the early adopters buy at all - have had 21 months of enjoyment so far with absolutely no need to sell and with OTA updates the car is now better than new. 24,367kms travelled.

 

[qldfrog]

On that issue, it is starting to be implemented.

Electric garbage truck trialled in regional Australia drives 'like a limousine'

With the take-up of electric vehicles across Australia commercial market considered "pretty modest" so far, those supporting an EV garbage truck trial in Shepparton believe its important to start chipping away towards a transition.

www.abc.net.au

also note that there is no mention of cost, who cares..it is taxpayer money, and while I believe as well that city buses and garbage truck are the best implementation for EV..no point repeating the ++, I also see how easy it is to overpay when it is not your money.
The weight of these garbage trucks must be enormous

 

[qldfrog]

Have you done the Math on that?

By the time that Haval being used for the daily commute hits 7 years of age doing 20,000 km per year, its used $21,000 of fuel, and just the dealer log book servicing with nothing else breaking is going to cost around $4680.

So that Haval consumes $25,680 of fuel and maintenance over the first 7 years, an EV could reduce that by about $18,000 (more if solar is utilised), and thats at todays fuel prices, over the coming years both fuel and maintenance is probably going to get more expensive.

maybe, I trust your figure
So can you get an EV Haval equivalent for the price of an Haval+18k?
And in the current context, do not forget the opportunity cost of the extra $18k for the next 7 years.

what i know:
I did the maths 12-16 months ago in my case between an MG and the equivalent MG EV version.Apple to apple
I believe I posted the lot on that thread (first cheap EV available then)..same to same on a 10y period considering that after 10y, the EV would be worthless and the ICE no worth much more.20k km or 12k km a year..not sure which I took
EV charging was always considered free : solar own power..which it is not (free) but the idea was to give EV a chance, petrol was set at $2 with inflation factored from purchase.
I was keen to try a cheap EV, it was before BYD gained traction here so MG was the only choice, and no, made no sense $ wise
This might will change, potentially both way

To be honest, I did not redo the computation for the Haval, not sure consumption, service, etc
And these are for petrol ICE, my diesel ute is at 200k+ km, 15y old and did a perfect run to FNQ and back a week ago;
Any European diesel small car consuming 5 to 6l/100 would blow these figures away, but expensive to purchase here
For some, it is a feasible option, but it was with the LEAF ages ago, the difference is a luxury tag attached to the Tesla by some..
And between a Tesla and an overpriced german berline, why not...
But neither are economically sensible choice IMHO.
As a taxpayer, i appreciate the extra GST and whatever luxury tax contributed ;-)

 

[qldfrog]

Indeed. And of course climate change is a hoax. Electric cars cost more to run than ICE cars. The usual tosh

So you are driving an EV if it is so good, and if you believe this will save the world..
I thank you for your extra ATO contributions