Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

This article gives a perfect example, of how it all boils back to energy density, of the fuel supplying the grunt.

MSN

The two trucks were towing identical 8,000 trailers. One of them went less than 100 miles before needing a top-up.​

Electric vehicles have evolved massively over the last two decades. They’re nearly silent in operation, offer great comfort, require low maintenance and more than often cost much less to drive compared to an equivalent combustion vehicle–especially when charging at home overnight.
One thing that’s yet to happen in the EV world, however, is figuring out a way to outmatch gas or diesel trucks when it comes to hauling big loads. The video embedded at the top of this page, shot and published by our friends at The Fast Lane Truck on YouTube, is proof that things can be improved on this front.

The two vehicles that were put to the test were the highly controversial Tesla Cybertruck in all-wheel drive Foundation Series trim and the Ram 2500 powered by a Cummins diesel engine.
Both trucks were towing identical ATC PLA 700 trailers. Each is 28 feet long and weighs about 8,000 lbs while the tongue weight is approximately 1,100 lbs.

After setting off for the test, the Cybertruck had an estimated range of 318 miles with a full battery. However, things started to go south pretty quickly. First, the driver said that with cruise control set to 70 miles per hour, he felt the trailer was pushing the truck around a bit and that he didn’t feel too comfortable.

The biggest problem with Tesla’s electric pickup, though, is that it didn’t adjust the estimated range to take the massive energy consumption into account. The state of charge indicator was going down normally and the estimated SoC at the Supercharger that was put into the navigation system was close to reality, but the number of remaining miles was too optimistic, even as the test was reaching the end.
After 85 miles of towing, the Cybertruck was showing just 6% SoC left after munching through 107 kWh of energy. That means an average energy consumption of 1,252 Wh/mile or 0.8 miles/kWh.

The EV was hooked up to a Tesla Supercharger at a Buc-ee's, while the Ram pulled into a gas station to fill up with diesel.

At the end of it all, the Ram needed 8.7 gallons of diesel for almost $26. It averaged about 9.7 mpg.

Tesla Cybertruck AWD vs. Ram 2500 Cummins energy and fuel consumption figures (Source: The Fast Lane Truck)
Meanwhile, the Cybertruck needed 107 kWh of energy to get to 100% for $0.35/kWh at that particular Supercharger. That means “filling up” the EV the same way as the diesel truck would cost $37.45 and it would take over an hour, according to the car’s screen

 

[farmerge]

This article gives a perfect example, of how it all boils back to energy density, of the fuel supplying the grunt.

MSN

The two trucks were towing identical 8,000 trailers. One of them went less than 100 miles before needing a top-up.​

Electric vehicles have evolved massively over the last two decades. They’re nearly silent in operation, offer great comfort, require low maintenance and more than often cost much less to drive compared to an equivalent combustion vehicle–especially when charging at home overnight.
One thing that’s yet to happen in the EV world, however, is figuring out a way to outmatch gas or diesel trucks when it comes to hauling big loads. The video embedded at the top of this page, shot and published by our friends at The Fast Lane Truck on YouTube, is proof that things can be improved on this front.

The two vehicles that were put to the test were the highly controversial Tesla Cybertruck in all-wheel drive Foundation Series trim and the Ram 2500 powered by a Cummins diesel engine.
Both trucks were towing identical ATC PLA 700 trailers. Each is 28 feet long and weighs about 8,000 lbs while the tongue weight is approximately 1,100 lbs.

After setting off for the test, the Cybertruck had an estimated range of 318 miles with a full battery. However, things started to go south pretty quickly. First, the driver said that with cruise control set to 70 miles per hour, he felt the trailer was pushing the truck around a bit and that he didn’t feel too comfortable.

The biggest problem with Tesla’s electric pickup, though, is that it didn’t adjust the estimated range to take the massive energy consumption into account. The state of charge indicator was going down normally and the estimated SoC at the Supercharger that was put into the navigation system was close to reality, but the number of remaining miles was too optimistic, even as the test was reaching the end.
After 85 miles of towing, the Cybertruck was showing just 6% SoC left after munching through 107 kWh of energy. That means an average energy consumption of 1,252 Wh/mile or 0.8 miles/kWh.

The EV was hooked up to a Tesla Supercharger at a Buc-ee's, while the Ram pulled into a gas station to fill up with diesel.

At the end of it all, the Ram needed 8.7 gallons of diesel for almost $26. It averaged about 9.7 mpg.

Tesla Cybertruck AWD vs. Ram 2500 Cummins energy and fuel consumption figures (Source: The Fast Lane Truck)
Meanwhile, the Cybertruck needed 107 kWh of energy to get to 100% for $0.35/kWh at that particular Supercharger. That means “filling up” the EV the same way as the diesel truck would cost $37.45 and it would take over an hour, according to the car’s screen

@sptrawler That certainly puts the EV v Diesel into perspective.
At this point in time EV certainly would be no match to the triples/quads that traverse the Continent.

 

[Value Collector]

@sptrawler That certainly puts the EV v Diesel into perspective.
At this point in time EV certainly would be no match to the triples/quads that traverse the Continent.

Electric trucks with ranges of 800 km and charge times of 30mins are on their way, of course diesels have longer ranges, but that extra range is some what pointless if the government mandates that you have to have regulated breaks before you get to 800 kms anyway.

You can point to long range driving like the Nullarbor but even that is not impossible, and there is plenty of low hanging fruit in the trucking industry before Ev's have to compete there anyway.

Also, Ev's do so well hauling loads up hills etc compared to diesels that have to drop town to low gears and inch up hills that a 30min charging stop after 8 hours probably doesn't even slow them down, especially because the driver would need to eat and pee after 8 hours anyway.

Another point is, every truck stop I went to in the USA had dozens of trucks parked up for hours while long range drivers slept, showered and ate, what a perfect time for charging.

 

[sptrawler]

Electric trucks with ranges of 800 km and charge times of 30mins are on their way, of course diesels have longer ranges, but that extra range is some what pointless if the government mandates that you have to have regulated breaks before you get to 800 kms anyway.

You can point to long range driving like the Nullarbor but even that is not impossible, and there is plenty of low hanging fruit in the trucking industry before Ev's have to compete there anyway.

Also, Ev's do so well hauling loads up hills etc compared to diesels that have to drop town to low gears and inch up hills that a 30min charging stop after 8 hours probably doesn't even slow them down, especially because the driver would need to eat and pee after 8 hours anyway.

Another point is, every truck stop I went to in the USA had dozens of trucks parked up for hours while long range drivers slept, showered and ate, what a perfect time for charging.

The long haul trans Australia freight companies usually have two drivers and a sleeper cab.
It maybe a case where a battery swap out system could be employed, but realistically B doubles/ triples long haul probably will struggle with batteries only IMO.
But time will tell, regardless of what we think.

 

[Value Collector]

The long haul trans Australia freight companies usually have two drivers and a sleeper cab.
It maybe a case where a battery swap out system could be employed, but realistically B doubles/ triples long haul probably will struggle with batteries only IMO.
But time will tell, regardless of what we think.

As I said, plenty of low hanging fruit before we need to tackle the Nullarbor (But I know its the favourite example hahaha).

As I have said before, even in remote areas like the Nullarbor it probably makes sense to use Electric that is locally produced nearby the filling stations, rather than refined oil, that is shipped and trucked from the other side of the world, I mean having trucks to truck out the fuel for the other trucks to use is not that efficient when you think about it.

 

[sptrawler]

As I said, plenty of low hanging fruit before we need to tackle the Nullarbor (But I know its the favourite example hahaha).

As I have said before, even in remote areas like the Nullarbor it probably makes sense to use Electric that is locally produced nearby the filling stations, rather than refined oil, that is shipped and trucked from the other side of the world, I mean having trucks to truck out the fuel for the other trucks to use is not that efficient when you think about it.

I tend to think heavy transport duty, will end up being H2, that is unless they come up with a new and better battery technology, it's like everything times change technology changes.
No point in being fixated, or obsessed with one technology, cost and expedience will win the day.

 

[Value Collector]

I tend to think heavy transport duty, will end up being H2, that is unless they come up with a new and better battery technology, it's like everything times change technology changes.
No point in being fixated, or obsessed with one technology, cost and expedience will win the day.

Yep, hydrogen is definitely in the race too, but I think it’s also going to come down to simplicity, because I think eventually it will be driverless vehicles doing long haul trips, and the less moving parts in the system the better.

a driverless Electric Truck that pulls into an unmanned charging bay every 8 hours, that’s powered unmanned solar and wind might be very simplistic system over all, and 90 mins of charging in each 24 block would be a huge edge over manned trucks, and if the cost is cheaper than hydrogen.

you could even have automated tyre changers, because little other maintenance would be required.

 

[JohnDe]

Very interesting take on the US market, increased tariffs on imported EVs, and profits -

 

[mullokintyre]

There has been much hype here in the US about The Biden Administration putting tariffs on Chinese made electric vehicles.Reuters , CBS News , and WSJ among others.
The problem is, thete are no Chinese made EV,s being imported into the US.
Just another useless announcement.
As the
In another inditement on Bidens all talk no action EV policy,
From Politico

Congress at the urging of the Biden administration agreed in 2021 to spend $7.5 billion to build tens of thousands of electric vehicle chargers across the country, aiming to appease anxious drivers while tackling climate change.
Two years later, the program has yet to install a single charger.
States and the charger industry blame the delays mostly on the labyrinth of new contracting and performance requirements they have to navigate to receive federal funds. While federal officials have authorized more than $2 billion of the funds to be sent to states, fewer than half of states have even started to take bids from contractors to build the chargers — let alone begin construction.

Consumer demand for electric vehicles is rising in the United States, necessitating six times as many chargers on its roads by the end of the decade, according to federal estimates. But not a single charger funded by the bipartisan infrastructure law has come online and odds are they will not be able to start powering Americans’ vehicles until at least 2024.

Is it just that they are inept, or is it just corruption?
Mick

 

[farmerge]

There has been much hype here in the US about The Biden Administration putting tariffs on Chinese made electric vehicles.Reuters , CBS News , and WSJ among others.
The problem is, thete are no Chinese made EV,s being imported into the US.
Just another useless announcement.
As the
In another inditement on Bidens all talk no action EV policy,
From Politico

Is it just that they are inept, or is it just corruption?
Mick

@mullokintyre Hang about Mick and I'll get someone to knock on Sleepy Joe's door to see if an answer can be gleaned as to what is going on.

 

[farmerge]

So sorry to say that when the door was opened all that was got to the question was Um, um, can you come back later as I was asleep.

 

[JohnDe]

An interesting and fair look at an EV with 160,000km on the clock by EV specialist RSymons. The only thing I have a question about is their tyre wear, in comparison to ours, though it is probably because my wife does the majority of the driving. We have done 53,602 km with the original fitment tyres, so far.

Our own car now has over 103,000 miles (160,000km) on the clock. How is it? ​

​

Wear and tear? ​

Build quality?​

Battery degradation?​

Useable capacity?​

Range loss?​

Reliability? ​

Maintenance and service costs? ​

Tyre life? ​

Original brake pads? ​

Depreciation? ​

Running costs? ​

​

All these answered in our roundup of life with a 2019 Model 3 performance, a great EV Electric Vehicle with high mileage - over 100,000 miles (160,000km). ​

 

[orr]

What's going on outside 'the provinces' ??? ....'they'll never tow ya boat'...

Those who go on to view the following might want to keep their ear out for the use of Silicon Carbide power electronics... what to do with that? it's then up to yourselves.
Tritium was 'always' trying to 'push'n it up-hill ' .... if only they'd had a bigger push from behind a bit earlier.... but it is what it is, out in the provinces.

try ... 'Electric fleet EXPO full tour chargers at the ACT 2024' in the youtube.

if the following is cancelled.

 

[divs4ever]

It wasn't the 'journos' commenting, it was "former garbo turned director of Foot Waste Collection". If his word is not good enough, no one's is. His only concern was the cost of the units.

Peter Foott slinks down Shepparton's streets without a sound.​

​

Instead of incidentally waking the town's residents with the rumbling of a diesel truck engine, Mr Foott sneaks around town, whisper quiet.​

​

"It's like a luxury garbage truck … nearly a limousine," Mr Foott said.​

​

And he should know. Mr Foott's a former "garbo" turned director of Foott Waste Collection.​

​

He has put himself back behind the wheel of the whisper-quiet waste wagon, driving the new truck throughout a month-long trial in the regional Victorian town.​

​

"It is really comfortable and so quiet, and the movability of it around a town like Shepparton has been amazing," Mr Foott said.​

​

Foott chief executive Andrew Yeoland said the quiet nature of the truck was a big drawcard for the company.​

​

"It's amazing when you're sitting in the truck and driving down the street. It is just so quiet," Mr Yeoland told ABC Victorian Mornings.​

​

"For residents and for those around who have heard the trucks humming, I think this is a huge advantage."​

having lived next door to garbos ( for several years ) 'cost of units ' might be a minor concern ( most residents in the cities are more irritated by the reversing warnings of the current trucks negotiating the daily round ) , but let's see what happens next

 

[divs4ever]

As I said, plenty of low hanging fruit before we need to tackle the Nullarbor (But I know its the favourite example hahaha).

As I have said before, even in remote areas like the Nullarbor it probably makes sense to use Electric that is locally produced nearby the filling stations, rather than refined oil, that is shipped and trucked from the other side of the world, I mean having trucks to truck out the fuel for the other trucks to use is not that efficient when you think about it.

not just the Nullabor , plenty of desolate roads in Queensland and NT that shift big tonnages regularly

 

[Value Collector]

not just the Nullabor , plenty of desolate roads in Queensland and NT that shift big tonnages regularly

If they are capable of shipping diesel that was produced on the other side of the world out to these locations, and use electrically powered bowsers to pump it into the trucks, there shouldn’t really be a problem with providing electric charging, locally produced solar and wind could be provided, backed up by batteries, and even a diesel generator if needed.

but as I said, the low hanging fruit first.

 

[farmerge]

@Value Collector Not too sure if you have ever driven a truck let alone a road train with 2, 3 ,4 or 5 trailers in tow.
Here in WA driving time is fixed at 5 hours and then a half hour break with a maximum of 17 hours per driver.
Consequently, to keep the trucks rolling, long haul is almost every time 2 up.
These trucks are not going to be parked up for recharging of batteries.
The reason they carry so much diesel is to get them from one side of the country, to the other, non-stop.
They have to keep their logbooks very accurate, to the minute and kilometer.
Heavy transport officials have no qualms about the fines they dish out if the paperwork doesn't add up.

 

[Value Collector]

@Value Collector Not too sure if you have ever driven a truck let alone a road train with 2, 3 ,4 or 5 trailers in tow.
Here in WA driving time is fixed at 5 hours and then a half hour break with a maximum of 17 hours per driver.
Consequently, to keep the trucks rolling, long haul is almost every time 2 up.
These trucks are not going to be parked up for recharging of batteries.
The reason they carry so much diesel is to get them from one side of the country, to the other, non-stop.
They have to keep their logbooks very accurate, to the minute and kilometer.
Heavy transport officials have no qualms about the fines they dish out if the paperwork doesn't add up.

Yes, I have a truck license, no I don’t drive road trains.

but I am not sure you understand my point when I say the low hanging fruit will be the first to be taken up by Electric.

It takes an electric truck about 30mins to recharge With about 800km of range, that’s perfect for the driving cycle of most trucks.

the vast majority of trucks are not on the road 24 hours a day in remote locations, most are doing deliveries within 200kms of their distribution centres, or line haul between population centres on major highways.

Never let perfect be the enemy of good, we can all think of locations where mobile phones have no service, but that doesn’t stop 99.9% of phones in peoples pockets operating exactly as needed.

 

[farmerge]

Yes, I have a truck license, no I don’t drive road trains.

but I am not sure you understand my point when I say the low hanging fruit will be the first to be taken up by Electric.

It takes an electric truck about 30mins to recharge With about 800km of range, that’s perfect for the driving cycle of most trucks.

the vast majority of trucks are not on the road 24 hours a day in remote locations, most are doing deliveries within 200kms of their distribution centres, or line haul between population centres on major highways.

Never let perfect be the enemy of good, we can all think of locations where mobile phones have no service, but that doesn’t stop 99.9% of phones in peoples pockets operating exactly as needed.

@Value Collector Yes i understand the short haul and dog trips, where a 8-10 hour day is the norm.
Leave home and back home by day's end.
My point is the long haul.
These trucks hard ever have their engines turned off.
Where we are situated the number of road trains heading north and east is pretty impressive as is the case of the number coming in.

 

[Value Collector]

@Value Collector Yes i understand the short haul and dog trips, where a 8-10 hour day is the norm.
Leave home and back home by day's end.
My point is the long haul.
These trucks hard ever have their engines turned off.
Where we are situated the number of road trains heading north and east is pretty impressive as is the case of the number coming in.

Most long haul happens between the cities on major freeways with single drivers.