Electric cars?

[JohnDe]

Good idea -

Electric garbage truck trial underway in Shepparton as former garbo lauds its quiet 'luxury'

From behind the wheel of his shiny blue garbage truck, Peter Foott slinks down Shepparton's streets without a sound.

Instead of incidentally waking the town's residents with the rumbling of a diesel truck engine, Mr Foott sneaks around town, whisper quiet.

The reason? He's behind the wheel of an electric vehicle (EV).

"It's like a luxury garbage truck … nearly a limousine," Mr Foott said.

And he should know. Mr Foott's a former "garbo" turned director of Foott Waste Collection.

He has put himself back behind the wheel of the whisper-quiet waste wagon, driving the new truck throughout a month-long trial in the regional Victorian town.

"It is really comfortable and so quiet, and the movability of it around a town like Shepparton has been amazing," Mr Foott said.

The truck in question is a Volvo EV rear loader, which has already been trialled in Canberra and the Sunshine Coast.

Foott chief executive Andrew Yeoland said the quiet nature of the truck was a big drawcard for the company.

"It's amazing when you're sitting in the truck and driving down the street. It is just so quiet," Mr Yeoland told ABC Victorian Mornings.

"For residents and for those around who have heard the trucks humming, I think this is a huge advantage."

Can it be done?

Jake Whitehead is chief scientist at the Electric Vehicle Council.

He said EV take-up in the commercial market in Australia had been "pretty modest", with less than 100 regularly in use Down Under.

"This is a transition that's not going to happen overnight but, because these vehicles last for a relatively long time, it's important we start chipping away at that and making that transition today," Dr Whitehead said.

Dr Whitehead said EV use in commercial industries was more advanced overseas, with Copenhagen aiming to have a completely electric rubbish truck fleet by the end of next year.

For that to happen in Australia, Dr Whitehead said the federal government would need to get on board with things like interest-free loans to make the vehicles more affordable.

"We're not at a stage yet where the vehicles are cheap enough that it will naturally happen," he said.

"If we want it to happen, we've got to have that policy support to accelerate the process."

Victorian Transport Association CEO Peter Anderson said the industry was onboard with any move to alternative fuels.

He warned that it would take time, and financial assistance, to happen.

"The industry's very keen to get onboard and get the process moving faster than it is," Mr Anderson said.

"We're not arguing climate change. What we need is a transition pathway for the industry to be able to take on the new concepts for energy and propulsion of trucks," he said.

Higher costs a hurdle to overcome

Mr Anderson said the biggest hurdle was cost, with an alternative fuel prime mover costing about two-and-a-half times more.

"A transport business is a business, and the social conscience ends when the business goes broke," he said.

"It isn't just about what we should do for the goodness of mankind.

"I'm sorry, but when I go to the bank manager at the end of the month, he doesn't take my bucket of love for payment for the mortgage. He takes cold hard cash and, if I don't have it, he takes my house."

Mr Anderson said no one knew when the trucking industry and associated infrastructure would be ready to change to alternative fuel.

But he warned the future might look different, not only to customers but to consumers as well.

"We all want our things delivered to us in the right way at the right time … but in the future it may be a little bit different," Mr Anderson said.

"That's the unknown for us right now because the bottom line is transitioning to alternative fuels will cost more."

Where to next

The team at Foott Waste Solutions said the trial was going well.

"We want to make sure that the truck functions the same way a normal garbage truck should function and so far the results have been very, very positive," Mr Yeoland said.

"It may be a stepping stone for us to put the whole fleet in and around electric in the future. That's the vision and what we'd like to look at from a longer term perspective."

Whether EVs could replace the company's diesel trucks will be determined following further analysis of the trial.

Dr Whitehead conceded electric garbage trucks may not be appropriate in all regional settings, but said the Shepparton trial was a positive step.

"It's not going to work for every single application out there. You have to go through a process of working out where the routes that do make sense," he said.

"But there are certainly many applications or many options in both regional and urban Australia where electric garbage trucks make sense today.

"This is the transition that's going to take place over the next 15 years or so."

The Australian Trucking Association did not respond to the ABC's request for an interview.

 

[sptrawler]

The obvious is starting to be acknowledged.

China has won the EV war, and US car makers are changing their electric plans

China, as it has done with solar panels, wind turbines, and even battery storage, not to mention battery metals, has already been declared the winner of the electric vehicle manufacturing wars.

thedriven-io.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[qldfrog]

The obvious is starting to be acknowledged.

China has won the EV war, and US car makers are changing their electric plans

China, as it has done with solar panels, wind turbines, and even battery storage, not to mention battery metals, has already been declared the winner of the electric vehicle manufacturing wars.

thedriven-io.cdn.ampproject.org

Impressed by, for Ford
That translates to a loss of $US130,000, or $A200,000, per electric car sold.....

 

[Value Collector]

Impressed by, for Ford
That translates to a loss of $US130,000, or $A200,000, per electric car sold.....

It’s important to remember though that that is not a cashflow loss on production of each car, they are making a profit margin on the cars they sell, the loss is them amortising the research and development costs of designing the car off each car, but those expenses eventually run out.

It would be like a drug company saying their first production run of a new drug cost them $10,000 per packet to make, because they spent $100 Million designing the drug, so they lost $9,950 per packet sold.

but in reality each packet only cost $5 to make on an ongoing basis, and they were making $45 cashflow on each one they sold, and the $9,950 loss per packet is just writing off the sunk development costs Against the first production run.

 

[sptrawler]

It’s important to remember though that that is not a cashflow loss on production of each car, they are making a profit margin on the cars they sell, the loss is them amortising the research and development costs of designing the car off each car, but those expenses eventually run out.

It would be like a drug company saying their first production run of a new drug cost them $10,000 per packet to make, because they spent $100 Million designing the drug, so they lost $9,950 per packet sold.

but in reality each packet only cost $5 to make on an ongoing basis, and they were making $45 cashflow on each one they sold, and the $9,950 loss per packet is just writing off the sunk development costs Against the first production run.

The big problem is, the drug company is up against another drug company that has a bottomless pit of money and doesn't really recognise your drug patents.
So it can copy your best selling drugs at a reduced price, a bit like pharmacy brands, but multiple times bigger.
So it might be a hiding to nothing.
Something I think Elon is very aware of.

 

[Knobby22]

The big problem is, the drug company is up against another drug company that has a bottomless pit of money and doesn't really recognise your drug patents.
So it can copy your best selling drugs at a reduced price, a bit like pharmacy brands, but multiple times bigger.
So it might be a hiding to nothing.
Something I think Elon is very aware of.

Chinese are developing their own tech also. those blade batteries, aren't a Musk company product.

BYD becomes EV patent king with over 13,000 applications

More than half of the patents BYD has filed over the last 20 years are related to electric vehicle batteries.

auto.hindustantimes.com

 

[sptrawler]

Chinese are developing their own tech also. those blade batteries, aren't a Musk company product.

BYD becomes EV patent king with over 13,000 applications

More than half of the patents BYD has filed over the last 20 years are related to electric vehicle batteries.

auto.hindustantimes.com

Yes Tesla use CATYL batteries for the Australian cars and they are talking about using them in the U.S cars,
Tesla gigafactories are building the 4680 batteries, whereas the the Chinese (CATYL and BYD) are leaning toward the blade and pouch polymer batteries.

 

[Knobby22]

Yes Tesla use CATYL batteries for the Australian cars and they are talking about using them in the U.S cars,
Tesla gigafactories are building the 4680 batteries, whereas the the Chinese (CATYL and BYD) are leaning toward the blade and pouch polymer batteries.

Hi SP

Do you have an opinion as to which is the best technology? or are they all pretty equal with advantages/disadvantages for each type.
I know, I should do some real research. The pouch battery technology appears very useful.

 

[JohnDe]

Yes Tesla use CATYL batteries for the Australian cars and they are talking about using them in the U.S cars,
Tesla gigafactories are building the 4680 batteries, whereas the the Chinese (CATYL and BYD) are leaning toward the blade and pouch polymer batteries.

Two of the best, working together.

CATL and Tesla launch cooperation to optimise charging times

CATL is working together with Tesla on new battery chemistries to enable faster charging of cells. The Chinese battery giant also sees great potential for reducing the costs of Tesla's upcoming compact model.

CATL CEO Robin Zeng told Bloomberg. However, Zeng did not go into any further detail when he said that they were working together on battery technologies for faster charging. He only stated that they were researching “in particular on new electrochemical structures”, referring to the cell chemistry.

With a view to the compact model planned by Tesla for 25,000 US dollars, there is also “always room for cost reductions”. Zeng also confirmed that CATL is supplying machines to Tesla’s factory in Nevada, as reported.

What he did not confirm, however, are the reports that Tesla is on the verge of using CATL’s LMFP cells. These are LFP cells in which manganese is added to the cathode in addition to lithium and iron phosphate. This ensures a higher energy density than with pure LFP cells, but it remains below the energy density of NMC/NCA cell chemistries. However, they are also significantly cheaper than cells with nickel, cobalt and manganese.

The Bloomberg interview, which was apparently conducted in Hong Kong, also briefly touched on the topic of robotaxis. “If it’s for robotaxis, we don’t have to worry about the cost reduction for each cell as our batteries have a longer life cycle and so their average cost is actually lower,” says Zeng. He therefore believes that his company is well positioned in terms of the service life of such battery cells.

CATL is one of the most influential battery cell manufacturers in China and also outside of China. However, due to the strict subsidisation policy in the USA, CATL is practically excluded from the market. The company is therefore trying to participate indirectly in the US battery boom by licensing its technology and supplying production expertise (such as the machines at Tesla). Such a battery factory is also planned with Ford through a licence deal.

According to Zeng, CATL will also train Ford engineers for this purpose, for example at the company headquarters in Ningde or at the German CATL factory at Erfurter Kreuz. The planned Ford factory was announced with 35 GWh, but Ford itself announced in November that the plans had been reduced to 20 GWh, which Zeng has now also confirmed. According to Zeng, the plant is on track to start production by the end of 2026.

And the licence model could soon be doing the rounds: Talks are underway with around 10 to 20 other car manufacturers in the US and Europe about a similar agreement, he said.

 

[sptrawler]

Hi SP

Do you have an opinion as to which is the best technology? or are they all pretty equal with advantages/disadvantages for each type.
I know, I should do some real research. The pouch battery technology appears very useful.

The 4680's are Li ion batteries and have nickel, cadmium etc in them, they have better energy density, but are more volatile.
The Chinese are leaning toward LiFe Po which are iron based, less energy density, heavier, but much more stable and better cycle life. The pouch, or blade design allows them to fit more material in the box.
As usual there is a place for both technologies.

 

[basilio]

Hybrid technology

Via the wonders of AI

 

[divs4ever]

Good idea -

ROFL !!

wait until they have to compress/compact the load

but they will be quiet for me , that part of the hearing range is gone ... and the garbos don't come this far out of the village

PS i guess these journos have never used electric forklifts

 

[JohnDe]

ROFL !!

wait until they have to compress/compact the load

but they will be quiet for me , that part of the hearing range is gone ... and the garbos don't come this far out of the village

PS i guess these journos have never used electric forklifts

It wasn't the 'journos' commenting, it was "former garbo turned director of Foot Waste Collection". If his word is not good enough, no one's is. His only concern was the cost of the units.

Peter Foott slinks down Shepparton's streets without a sound.​

​

Instead of incidentally waking the town's residents with the rumbling of a diesel truck engine, Mr Foott sneaks around town, whisper quiet.​

​

"It's like a luxury garbage truck … nearly a limousine," Mr Foott said.​

​

And he should know. Mr Foott's a former "garbo" turned director of Foott Waste Collection.​

​

He has put himself back behind the wheel of the whisper-quiet waste wagon, driving the new truck throughout a month-long trial in the regional Victorian town.​

​

"It is really comfortable and so quiet, and the movability of it around a town like Shepparton has been amazing," Mr Foott said.​

​

Foott chief executive Andrew Yeoland said the quiet nature of the truck was a big drawcard for the company.​

​

"It's amazing when you're sitting in the truck and driving down the street. It is just so quiet," Mr Yeoland told ABC Victorian Mornings.​

​

"For residents and for those around who have heard the trucks humming, I think this is a huge advantage."​

 

[basilio]

So Trump latest policy is to kill the electric car industry in the US if the Oil Companies give him $1B and he is re elected.

Trump promises oil execs to end EVs once and for all in exchange for $1 billion in campaign donations, Washington Post reports​

The fate of the EV industry might hinge on former President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign.

During a meeting in Florida, Trump told a room full of oil executives that in exchange for raising $1 billion in campaign funds for his reelection bid he would roll back a slew of environmental regulations, according to a report from the Washington Post. The oil executives reportedly balked at the transactional nature of Trump’s comments.

.....Included in those future regulatory cuts was a promise to undo a series of regulations meant to encourage automakers to invest in and manufacture more electric vehicles. The specific policy limits the amount of carbon emissions allowed from a car’s tailpipes. The new regulation essentially forces car companies to make more electric vehicles, which don’t have any tailpipe emissions. A transition away from gas-powered vehicles toward electric vehicles would harm energy companies that produce the gasoline that powers the cars targeted by the policy. According to the Post, Trump called the policy "ridiculous."

Trump promises oil execs to end EVs once and for all in exchange for $1 billion in campaign donations, Washington Post reports

The presidential candidate vowed to kneecap the already beleaguered EV sector in a meeting with oil execs.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[JohnDe]

So Trump latest policy is to kill the electric car industry in the US if the Oil Companies give him $1B and he is re elected.

Trump promises oil execs to end EVs once and for all in exchange for $1 billion in campaign donations, Washington Post reports​

The fate of the EV industry might hinge on former President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign.

During a meeting in Florida, Trump told a room full of oil executives that in exchange for raising $1 billion in campaign funds for his reelection bid he would roll back a slew of environmental regulations, according to a report from the Washington Post. The oil executives reportedly balked at the transactional nature of Trump’s comments.

.....Included in those future regulatory cuts was a promise to undo a series of regulations meant to encourage automakers to invest in and manufacture more electric vehicles. The specific policy limits the amount of carbon emissions allowed from a car’s tailpipes. The new regulation essentially forces car companies to make more electric vehicles, which don’t have any tailpipe emissions. A transition away from gas-powered vehicles toward electric vehicles would harm energy companies that produce the gasoline that powers the cars targeted by the policy. According to the Post, Trump called the policy "ridiculous."

Trump promises oil execs to end EVs once and for all in exchange for $1 billion in campaign donations, Washington Post reports

The presidential candidate vowed to kneecap the already beleaguered EV sector in a meeting with oil execs.

finance.yahoo.com

In the unlikely event that he becomes President, I doubt that he will follow through with half of what he says. A few days ago, I listened to a discussion with some top US analysts, and they were talking about how the top Republican leaders have been in discussion in preparation for future Trump presidency, this time they will have more control with advice and stand as a team.

 

[basilio]

In the unlikely event that he becomes President, I doubt that he will follow through with half of what he says. A few days ago, I listened to a discussion with some top US analysts, and they were talking about how the top Republican leaders have been in discussion in preparation for future Trump presidency, this time they will have more control with advice and stand as a team.

Really ? How will they "stand together as a "team" ? In what world will Donald Trump have advisors who do not fully accept whatever he says ? And anyway what is the policy and advice of these Republicans on energy and car policy ?

All the evidence to date is that a 2025 Trump Presidency would be far more focused and determined to deliver what Donald Trump wants to do. The planning and plans for a second Trump administration are out there.

Trump's plans if he returns to the White House include deportation raids, tariffs and mass firings

Donald Trump is already laying a sweeping set of policy goals should he win a second term as president.

apnews.com

 

[sptrawler]

It sounds like another Trumped up story. Lol
The EU and U.S are trying to kneecap China's EV dominance already.
No ones saying anything about that. Lol
People need to get out more.

 

[JohnDe]

Really ? How will they "stand together as a "team" ? In what world will Donald Trump have advisors who do not fully accept whatever he says ? And anyway what is the policy and advice of these Republicans on energy and car policy ?

All the evidence to date is that a 2025 Trump Presidency would be far more focused and determined to deliver what Donald Trump wants to do. The planning and plans for a second Trump administration are out there.

Trump's plans if he returns to the White House include deportation raids, tariffs and mass firings

Donald Trump is already laying a sweeping set of policy goals should he win a second term as president.

apnews.com

You and I don't know Trump; we only have the info that we get from the old and new media formats. If you had heard the discussion, you would have a better understanding. Sadly, I can't give you a link because I was in the car when I was listening and did not get the name of the program.

Trump may be uncouth, a bully, harsh, loud, and all the rest but he is not stupid enough to not listen to advisors and industry experts. His last Presidency he had the B team advising, because the A team decided to boycott him. It is the A team that admitted that they stuffed up by walking away rather than sticking around and making sure things got done properly. If Trum gets in it will be different.

 

[sptrawler]

Trump may be uncouth, a bully, harsh, loud, and all the rest but he is not stupid enough to not listen to advisors and industry experts. His last Presidency he had the B team advising, because the A team decided to boycott him. It is the A team that admitted that they stuffed up by walking away rather than sticking around and making sure things got done properly. If Trum gets in it will be different.

let's be honest Trump in his term was a lot more successful than Biden has been in this term, despite all the cult chorus disagreeing.

Trump had China at the table agreeing to address the trade imbalance, he had rocket man agreeing to stop ICBM testing and development.

Since Biden, China has declared industrial war on the U.S, rocket man has gone bat $hit crazy, Putin has trashed Ukraine and Isreal is flattening Gazza.
Not bad going for the World's sherrif's first term in office, he's lucky he can't remember it.
Anyway back to EV cars. Lol

 

[sptrawler]

It will be interesting, if this article is accurate.

The electric car breakthrough we've all been waiting for: GWM is close to developing solid state batteries that would see its Ora electric car smash the BYD Dolphin, MG4 and Tesla Model Y - Car News

Australia’s cheapest electric car could soon have a game-changing battery. GWM, which sells the Ora electric hatchback in Australia for $35,990 drive-away, has detailed its progress on solid state battery tech.

www.carsguide.com.au