Electric cars?

[Chipp]

Yes but why did the competition slow down and Tesla didn’t?

And if the competition is losing $6000 per EV while Tesla is making a profit, what does that mean for the future of the competition?

Sorry i cannot be bothered with this

 

[JohnDe]

Sorry i cannot be bothered with this

Why? I can only guess it’s because you can’t find the right answers.

 

[Chipp]

Why? I can only guess it’s because you can’t find the right answers.

I am not anti EV ( i will buy one at some stage ) , i am not anti TSLA . I just cant be bothered talking to zealots . savvy . Now run along

 

[JohnDe]

I am not anti EV ( i will buy one at some stage ) , i am not anti TSLA . I just cant be bothered talking to zealots . savvy . Now run along

Oh. One of those I see. Pulls out the old “zealots” line. Can’t participate in a fair and reasonable discussion, so spits the dummy and resorts to nonsense.

For the record, I am not a EV or Tesla “zealot”. I am heavily involved in the automotive industry, which is the ICEV side but I’m not shutting the doors on the EV industry.

The questions I asked you were all reasonable.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes but why did the competition slow down and Tesla didn’t?

And if the competition is losing $6000 per EV while Tesla is making a profit, what does that mean for the future of the competition?

I don't think the Chinese are losing $6000 per car and even if they are, the Chinese Govt will support it, while they reverse engineer the Teslas they are making.
It isn't a good scenarion for Western manufacturers.
Just my opinion but I'm seeing a huge take up locally of Chinese ICE and EV vehicles.
Having said that Tesla are not just an EV company.

 

[mullokintyre]

Currently, Polestar is the only Chinese made EV sold in America.
And it will probably stay that way for some time while American policy is to give incentives only to EV,s made in America.
So comparing Chinese prices with whats available is a bit pointless.

mick

 

[JohnDe]

I don't think the Chinese are losing $6000 per car and even if they are, the Chinese Govt will support it, while they reverse engineer the Teslas they are making.
It isn't a good scenarion for Western manufacturers.
Just my opinion but I'm seeing a huge take up locally of Chinese ICE and EV vehicles.
Having said that Tesla are not just an EV company.

I have a rental MG for 10 days, it’s an interesting vehicle. The quality is great, torque and acceleration is excellent, but the refinement is poor. The rear view mirror and front sensor attached to it blocks a good portion of critical viewing through the centre of the windscreen, cruise control fluctuates by 2 km/h + & - of set speed, audio and Bluetooth system is not intuitive. That’s what I’ve learned after 3 days driving, tomorrow it’s going to get a real workout. I’m not saying it’s a bad car, for the price it is very good. But to compare it with the higher end competition is wrong.

 

[JohnDe]

I’m under the impression that BYD and Tesla are the only companies making a profit selling EVs. I may be mistaken but the information I have read so far suggests that.

Based on the median value of the preview and excluding the contribution from BYD Electronic, BYD had an average net profit per vehicle after non-recurring gains and losses of RMB 9,100 ($1,270) in the fourth quarter, SDIC Securities analyst Xu Huixiong's team said in a research note today.

Analysts explain why BYD's average profit per car fell in Q4

BYD's average profit per vehicle fell by about RMB 1,400 in the fourth quarter from the third quarter, mainly due to promotions through discounts and incentives offered to dealers, a team of analysts said.

cnevpost.com

The graph below tells the tale. Last quarter, Tesla's average revenue per delivered vehicle came in just a tad above $45,100, with the lower-cost Model 3 and Model Y cars accounting for over 96% of those deliveries. The average production cost per electric vehicle rolled in at just under $36,680.

Here's How Much Profit Tesla Makes on Each EV It Manufactures (Spoiler Alert: The Number Is Still Shrinking) | The Motley Fool

It's not too soon for shareholders to start asking when and where this profit deterioration will stop.

www.fool.com

 

[sptrawler]

I’m under the impression that BYD and Tesla are the only companies making a profit selling EVs. I may be mistaken but the information I have read so far suggests that.

The other thing is, both companies are not purely dependent on selling cars, that's important IMO.
I think Tesla are only a few steps from having the perfect EV, they just need to back off on the whole shooting match being on the ipad, then they will blow the rest away IMO.
I think it's a case of getting too far ahead of the game from that aspect.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't think the Chinese are losing $6000 per car and even if they are, the Chinese Govt will support it, while they reverse engineer the Teslas they are making.
It isn't a good scenarion for Western manufacturers.
Just my opinion but I'm seeing a huge take up locally of Chinese ICE and EV vehicles.
Having said that Tesla are not just an EV company.

Also, Samsung creating a smart phone didn‘t stop Apple selling IPhones, Iphones are not the biggest selling phone globally, but Apple sell a enough of them in the right markets at the right prices to make them selves one of the most profitable companies in the world.

Market Share is not as important as profitability.

 

[Knobby22]

The other thing is, both companies are not purely dependent on selling cars, that's important IMO.
I think Tesla are only a few steps from having the perfect EV, they just need to back off on the whole shooting match being on the ipad, then they will blow the rest away IMO.
I think it's a case of getting too far ahead of the game from that aspect.

It is an important fact that both companies control more than the manufacture.

As for Tesla being close to the perfect EV that's like saying the Apple II is getting close to the perfect PC.

 

[Value Collector]

The other thing is, both companies are not purely dependent on selling cars, that's important IMO.
I think Tesla are only a few steps from having the perfect EV, they just need to back off on the whole shooting match being on the ipad, then they will blow the rest away IMO.
I think it's a case of getting too far ahead of the game from that aspect.

I don’t know, the older generation grew up on toys with knobs, buttons, dials etc etc but the younger generation grew up controlling everything with touch screens. I think most people under 30 are going to be very comfortable with controlling the car with the touch screen.

 

[sptrawler]

I don’t know, the older generation grew up on toys with knobs, buttons, dials etc etc but the younger generation grew up controlling everything with touch screens. I think most people under 30 are going to be very comfortable with controlling the car with the touch screen.

Possibly, time will tell, as usual.
The thing is, at the moment, the younger generation don't have a lot of money.
Whereas apparently the older generation does and E.V's work well for the older generation.

 

[sptrawler]

It is an important fact that both companies control more than the manufacture.

Yes Tesla also have a subscription charging network, a low level satellite internet infrastructure, space X and battery manufacturing capability.

Whereas BYD is one of the world leaders in battery manufacturing alongside CATYL.

So the E.V side of the business, isn't actually central to the success of either business. Whereas with the legacy manufacturers, supporting the ICE manufacturing, while trying to develop the BEV capability is onerous.

I guess that's what you were alluding to by the above comment?

As for Tesla being close to the perfect EV that's like saying the Apple II is getting close to the perfect PC.

Is the Apple 11 getting close to the perfect PC? I don't have any Apple products to gauge it by.
When it comes to the Tesla vehicle, it has a proven drive train track record, and has one of best energy efficiencies at its price point, so at this point in time it is close to the perfect EV.
No doubt things will change over time, but currently it is hard to beat, as its sales success highlights.

 

[sptrawler]

Also, Samsung creating a smart phone didn‘t stop Apple selling IPhones, Iphones are not the biggest selling phone globally, but Apple sell a enough of them in the right markets at the right prices to make them selves one of the most profitable companies in the world.

Market Share is not as important as profitability.

Probably why I personally would prefer a Porsche Taycan over a Tesla, doesn't make the Taycan a better car, but it is probably more profitable on a per unit basis.
But then again, I bought a Hyundai Kona, for the same price as a Tesla model 3, I buy for function. not bragging rights.

Also the reason I have a Samsung S23 Ultra, instead of an iPhone, I wanted a camera with a phone attached, rather than a fashion statement.

Everyone to their own.

 

[farmerge]

Probably why I personally would prefer a Porsche Taycan over a Tesla, doesn't make the Taycan a better car, but it is probably more profitable on a per unit basis.
But then again, I bought a Hyundai Kona, for the same price as a Tesla model 3, I buy for function. not bragging rights.

Also the reason I have a Samsung S23 Ultra, instead of an iPhone, I wanted a camera with a phone attached, rather than a fashion statement.

Everyone to their own.

I just wanted a phone that worked.
Bought a Samsung state of the art phone 3 years ago.
Not 12 hours in my keeping and it turned itself off.
Took it back to the Telsra Shop and 5 hours later they couldn't get it to work so came out with the Apple I-Phone.

 

[sptrawler]

I just wanted a phone that worked.
Bought a Samsung state of the art phone 3 years ago.
Not 12 hours in my keeping and it turned itself off.
Took it back to the Telsra Shop and 5 hours later they couldn't get it to work so came out with the Apple I-Phone.

LIke I said everyone to their own.
The wife hates phones, but with doing a lot of travelling I demanded she have one.
So after talking to a lot of tech people they mostly recommended the iphone.
Long story short, bought her one she couldnt get the hang of it, so got her an amdroid no problems.
The daughter got a new iphone for free. There's no one size fits all with technology, I've found.
Just have to find what suits.

 

[Value Collector]

Probably why I personally would prefer a Porsche Taycan over a Tesla, doesn't make the Taycan a better car, but it is probably more profitable on a per unit basis.
But then again, I bought a Hyundai Kona, for the same price as a Tesla model 3, I buy for function. not bragging rights.

Also the reason I have a Samsung S23 Ultra, instead of an iPhone, I wanted a camera with a phone attached, rather than a fashion statement.

Everyone to their own.

As a Berkshire Hathaway shareholder I use and recommend Iphone .

but to honest, I couldn’t probably tell the difference fashion wise they are all just black rectangles to me, I just want it to have the apps I like, and I enjoy that the IPhone and all my Apple products seemlessly just work together.

 

[farmerge]

LIke I said everyone to their own.
The wife hates phones, but with doing a lot of travelling I demanded she have one.
So after talking to a lot of tech people they mostly recommended the iphone.
Long story short, bought her one she couldnt get the hang of it, so got her an amdroid no problems.
The daughter got a new iphone for free. There's no one size fits all with technology, I've found.
Just have to find what suits.

@sptrawler She who is never wrong is in the caste as your better half. After her prolonged illness I also required that she have one. Problem it is hardly turned on and because it is 3G it now has a limited life span. Going to be interesting when a new has to be purchased.

 

[Knobby22]

Is the Apple 11 getting close to the perfect PC? I don't have any Apple products to gauge it by.
When it comes to the Tesla vehicle, it has a proven drive train track record, and has one of best energy efficiencies at its price point, so at this point in time it is close to the perfect EV.
No doubt things will change over time, but currently it is hard to beat, as its sales success highlights.

The Apple 2 was the leading Personal Computer that revolutionised the PC industry in 1979 and was the top selling computer for a number of years.

The point was that the world has moved on a lot since then. It's early days for PVs.