Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 22.1%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 40.0%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 36 18.5%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.3%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.2%
  • Total voters
    195
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JohnDe said:
I had to use a public charger yesterday, first time in about 2 years, a Jolt charger. Re-install the app, follow the instructions 'scan the code and follow the prompts on your phone'. then stand around for a few minutes waiting for confirmation. First 7 KW free, that must be for the inconvenience of standing around taking the phone out, opening the app, scanning the code, choosing the plan, etc.

It probably gets easier and faster the more times someone uses it. For me it is always going to be clunky, because I am an infrequent user.

I'm sure there is a better way.
Click to expand...

"As advanced as electric cars are, it’s stunning how terrible it is to charge an EV". All they need to do is copy part of the Tesla model, but that requires the vehicle manufacturer to fit a universal chip reader that all charging networks can read, allowing instant access when you drive up to the charger.

A Great EV Fast-Charging Station Will Probably Be Like A Great Gas Station

EV drivers want many of the same amenities that gas car owners regularly use, like air pumps, vacuums, and convenience store items nearby.​

As advanced as electric cars are, it’s stunning how terrible it is to charge an EV. Instead of drivers chowing down snack-sized finger sandwiches and oat milk lattes envisioned by some enterprising futurists, the reality of the modern EV charging experience is often long lines, semi-functional equipment, compatibility issues and endless payment apps. And no matter the charging brand, the driver will probably be exiled to the back of a strip mall parking lot or a desolate city center, leaving them to trifle with a charger that might not even work.

Although any random charger in the back of a parking lot is certainly a helpful addition to our woeful charging infrastructure, it’s becoming extremely clear that EV drivers want and need more.

On an impromptu quick road trip in a rented Hyundai Ioniq 5, I stopped at a surprisingly important DC fast charging station—one of the first GM-branded Ultium DC fast chargers installed at a Flying J’s truck stop.

The experience wasn’t perfect, but it was a heck of a lot better than a lot of other DC fast-charging options I’ve experienced yet. Despite that mediocre experience, analysts and experts say that this—something that simulates a gas station—might just be the way forward for our DC fast-charging infrastructure.

Automakers are starting to get the gist that sitting alone in an empty parking lot waiting for the car to gather electrons from the grid isn’t an enjoyable, desirable experience. At the end of the day, electric cars are still cars with human drivers, and both cars and drivers have needs that should be satisfied, thus, automakers and EV charging service providers are attempting to provide a more complete experience.

This is backed up by data from the automotive analysis firm AutoPacific. It recently published its EV Consumer Insights Study, which showed that EV drivers in part want some of the bare minimum of the same amenities found at gas stations. Things like windshield wash stations, air pumps for refilling tires, or even vacuum cleaners or car wash stations. The average DC fast charging station doesn’t even have a roof; not fun when a driver has to recharge in bad weather.

Just by virtue of being on the same property as a truck stop, the GM Ultium station here already has a few legs up on most other DC fast charging stations. There’s an air station, a convenience store, and an attached Denny’s, which is way better than the GMC dealership the Ioniq 5’s in-car DC fast charging finder initially had me navigate toward.

The two charging stations are rated for 350 kW, which should keep charging times reasonably low, especially in the Ioniq 5, which can reach a max speed well into the 200 kW range. The stations themselves are turned sideways next to a pull-through-style space, meaning they’ll be accessible to nearly every EV, even if they’re towing a trailer. The canopy covering the stations should shield the driver somewhat from the elements—all the things we’ve taken for granted that made refueling a gas car ubiquitously comfortable, are present at Flying J’s.

But, is the mere presence of the amenities of a gas station enough to make EV drivers swoon? Nah.

“The focus has been on making chargers reliable when people show up – chargers will work,” said Amaiya Khardenavis, an EV Charging Analyst at Wood Mackenzie Power & Renewables Energy Research. “But it goes beyond just the chargers working, it includes the ecosystem that surrounds [the chargers]. The customer will be spending 30 to 45 minutes at this location, and they’re wanting the basics like clean washrooms, but also [amenities] beyond that, such as retail services like food, convenience stores, or even a lounge with WiFi.”

This wasn’t the cleanest or most modern Flying J’s. The store itself was old and dumpy; it could have satisfied any patron’s craving for a pack of Marlboro Reds and a Mountain Dew, but it’s not exactly a place where anyone would want to spend more than the five minutes it would have taken me in a gas-powered car to refuel. Hungry, and craving breakfast, I paid the attached Denny's a visit. The food was okay, but I remembered why I stopped going to Denny’s more than a decade ago. (When it comes to chain diners, Denny’s is last on my list, it just feels like such a lower-quality option compared to Bob Evans or even IHOP.)

Personal food qualms aside, the charger was working well enough. I pulled into the station with 16% battery life; the car stayed at roughly 78 kW for a short while, ramped up to 175 kW, only to get cut down to 125 kW. The chargers on location were 350 kW units, but they allowed for simultaneous charging, so other EVs will draw more of the maximum possible juice. The second charging unit was broken, which meant the GM-owned Blazer EV had no other choice but to plug in the same unit as me, splitting the theoretically available 350 kW between two vehicles.

I’m not a stickler for DC fast charging speeds so I didn’t mind the slight slowdown, but it did keep me at the dingy Flying J’s longer than I wanted to be there.

That was my problem here. I had an unsatisfying meal at a truck stop Denny's because I didn’t want to loiter in a Flying J’s convenience store lobby or sit in my car scrolling TikTok. I suppose this is a better experience than the alternative of sitting in the back of a dark Walmart parking lot, but it wasn’t something I liked, either.

However, if EV charging service providers are going to make this transition profitable, they’ll likely need to follow this blueprint set out, according to Khardenavis. I just hope they can execute it better.

“It comes down to how public charging stations are going to monetize EV charging," Khardenavis said. "They aren’t going to make money off EV charging, unfortunately. The focus is trying to monetize and stimulate revenue that comes from store purchases. You’re looking at going to charge your EV, and then going into the store because there’s nothing to do.”

Khardenavis said that in his experience, some stations make upwards of 60% of their revenue from convenience store purchases, not from fuel sales.

But, Khardenavis also admitted that perhaps I just had a mediocre run-in with a not-so-good station, one that isn’t necessarily indicative of the future of DC fast charging. For example, there are other, better-maintained Gas Station and EV charging hub partnerships, like Mercedes-Benz’s agreement with Buc-ee's.

A Texas road trip staple that's quickly expanding elsewhere, Buc-ee’s is widely regarded as a cut above a typical gas station, with the wildly profitable stores selling its own branded merchandise or house-made gourmet items like barbequed brisket. Way different than the typical gas station hot dog or nachos. It’s not just Buc-ee’s, either; other gas station convenience stores like Sheetz, Wawa, or 7/11 have made most of their money from bespoke food and convenience items and the associated positive customer experience, not the fuel sales.

“The focus has not been on the customer service experience at all. The focus has been on making sure the chargers work and are in the right place,” Khardenavis said.

Still, with the quest to establish charging infrastructure, EV charging service providers may need to do two things at the same time if they’re expecting to ever turn a profit. A good gas station will probably be a good EV charging station, too.
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Chargefox in W.A isn't bad, install the app, put in the credit card details, then when you charge just plug in, open the app and tap the go button.
Only used it once on a pay charger, but it went well.
 
mullokintyre said:
Got this email from EVIE just now.
View attachment 172938
So now there is a pre hold of 30 per charge.
Another way for the banks and Evie to make money.
What was wrong with the old system where they had your bank details in the account in their AP?
Charging Electric vehicles is going backwards in terms of customer service, not that it was terribly good in the first place.
mick
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They must be finding that some people top up with $25 of electricity when their card only has $10 on it, so the transaction can't go through.

Its a bit like how they do it in the USA at the petrol pumps, you have to go in and prepay before you fuel up.

Now don't get triggered ;) but Tesla lets you do a complete charge even if your card on file has expired before they will shut you out of the system and request that you update your details. That happened to me on a road trip, I recharged and was driving away from the super charger when I got a notification from Tesla saying that my card details have expired and please log in and update before attending another super charger.
 
This is a very interesting article from Ford and also toward the end they made a couple of very interesting comments.

www.drive.com.au

Cut-price Ford electric ute, SUV coming to chase BYD, Tesla – report

Ford's response to ever-cheaper Chinese electric cars is poised to be an SUV and ute duo.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
From the article:

Ford CEO Jim Farley has "made it clear" the small electric vehicles must "turn a profit within a year of hitting the market," after the company reported a $US40,000 ($AU61,000) loss on every electric vehicle it sold in 2023.

"We have decided pretty quickly to bet on smaller [electric-vehicle] platforms," Mr Farley said in February, as quoted by Bloomberg.
"Since the middle of last year, we have assumed that we have to basically sell an [electric vehicle] at a hybrid premium — there is no more money for customers than that."
He said: "If you cannot compete fair and square with the Chinese around the world, then 20 per cent to 30 per cent of your revenue is at risk. As the CEO of a company that had trouble competing with the Japanese and the South Koreans, we have to fix this problem."
 
I reckon that we will see more of this -

Fierce rivals Honda and Nissan join forces to take on Chinese car makers​

  • In short: Honda and Nissan have signed a new alliance to work together on EV technology.
  • The announcement by the two arch rivals has been described by experts as an attempt to catch up with competitors like China's BYD.
  • What's next? The deal gives the companies six years to work together. The firms will develop shared technologies, but their products will remain different.
www.abc.net.au

'Chinese brands a decade ahead of the rest': The reality facing the EV industry

Two rival Japanese car makers have announced they will work together on electric vehicles, countering the rise of Chinese competitors.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
I am not anti EV cars and since they have overcome the cost hurdle to buy they are on my radar , Now the only thing to overcome for me is convenience . Meanwhile i will stick to my old ICE ute and my new '23 mustang GT but i am open to EV when the time is right . If you only do limited km a day they are fine , its just the recharge time on a day trip to Byron Bay type of trip thats holding me back currently . One day i will be EV owner..
 
Chipp said:
If you only do limited km a day they are fine , its just the recharge time on a day trip to Byron Bay type of trip thats holding me back currently . One day i will be EV owner..
Click to expand...

Tesla Supercharger
@Chipp, just south of Byron Bay at "Knockrow" has a solar-powered public electric vehicle (EV) charging station installed at the Macadamia Castle, which is a 45kW “car shade” structure that combines solar panels with EV charging capabilities.

Skate.
 
Skate said:
Tesla Supercharger
@Chipp, just south of Byron Bay at "Knockrow" has a solar-powered public electric vehicle (EV) charging station installed at the Macadamia Castle, which is a 45kW “car shade” structure that combines solar panels with EV charging capabilities.

Skate.
Click to expand...
Its the amount of time to charge and also the lineup to charge on top of actually having a charger there tbh . Also would like options outside Tesla . My Mustang will go byron and back on 1 tank easily and if i need to fill its a 5m job at 1 of hundreds of fuel stops . Range axiety would be a genuine thing in any current EV on almost 400km round trip in a day . When i get apartment in CBD and if has a charger facility i will consider an EV for around town and keep V8 for longer trips where it actually gets decent economy not that i really give a sheet about economy . I am a time and motion economist type of guy and value my time heavily so hate wasting it doing mundane things like taking 1 hour plus to charge a car mid day out for relaxation

Appreciate the headsup though but id really want multiple choices for charging before i felt comfortable
 
Chipp said:
I am not anti EV cars and since they have overcome the cost hurdle to buy they are on my radar , Now the only thing to overcome for me is convenience . Meanwhile i will stick to my old ICE ute and my new '23 mustang GT but i am open to EV when the time is right . If you only do limited km a day they are fine , its just the recharge time on a day trip to Byron Bay type of trip thats holding me back currently . One day i will be EV owner..
Click to expand...
How far are you driving on the day trip?

If you start with a full battery that you charged at home, 15 mins on a fast charger some where that day will get you a round trip of over 600 km’s.

and then you have the convenience of not having to attend the fuel station for all the other days in your regular life.
 
Chipp said:
Its the amount of time to charge and also the lineup to charge on top of actually having a charger there tbh . Also would like options outside Tesla . My Mustang will go byron and back on 1 tank easily and if i need to fill its a 5m job at 1 of hundreds of fuel stops . Range axiety would be a genuine thing in any current EV on almost 400km round trip in a day . When i get apartment in CBD and if has a charger facility i will consider an EV for around town and keep V8 for longer trips where it actually gets decent economy not that i really give a sheet about economy . I am a time and motion economist type of guy and value my time heavily so hate wasting it doing mundane things like taking 1 hour plus to charge a car mid day out for relaxation

Appreciate the headsup though but id really want multiple choices for charging before i felt comfortable
Click to expand...
15 mins will get your battery back up to about 80%, and because you would be charging at home you only need to get enough charge to get home, not sitting there waiting for 100%.

I have charged near byron heaps of times, never had to wait.

you probably spend about 8 hours a year refueling your car at a petrol station, EV’s cut this to basically zero because you charge at home, and that 15 mins on the road trip you probably spend using the bathroom or grabbing a coffee.
 
The BYD Seal all wheel drive seems to have all the hardware of an AWD EV with two motors , plus some impressive technical words in its software control, but according to these Swedish Engineers, its a fake.



Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
The BYD Seal all wheel drive seems to have all the hardware of an AWD EV with two motors , plus some impressive technical words in its software control, but according to these Swedish Engineers, its a fake.



Mick
Click to expand...

That is a bit misleading,It is 4wd with a f***ed up software..a bit like saying old trooper were not 4wd if you were forgetting to lock the front axes wheels..
Nothing a good software upgrade will not fix
 
MG have dropped the price of its EV range, one model by up to $9,000.
Note MG also make ICE versions, which do not appear to have had the same price drops.
In an era of high inflation, price drops are most unusual, except in the case of EV's.
Have we reached peak EV saturation?
Is there too much stocl?
Have all the EV buyers done their buying, and the rest of the population need more convincing?
From The Driven
MG Australia has announced a dramatic cut in the drive-away prices across its entire electric vehicle range in Australia, with its most affordable models, the MG4 Excite and MG ZS EV Excite, now starting at a drive-away price of $39,990.
The latest price cuts announced late Thursday also includes the dual-motor hot-hatch MG4 X-Power variant, which comes in at $59,990 driveway.
The largest savings are seen in the MG ZS EV Long Range, coming in at nearly $9,000 off the driveaway price. On the MG4, the Long Range variant also sees more than $6,000 cut from its drive-away price.
The move was announced by MG Australia CEO Peter Ciao, who re-iterated the brand’s support for the proposed New Vehicle Efficiency Standard.
1711083556937.png
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Carlos Sainz won the 2024 Paris Dakar rally car section in an Audi ETron hybrid electric car, it's Sainz's fourth win and Audi's first.

Sainz snr aged 61 is a rally driving legend and this win makes him the oldest Paris Dakar winner. His son Carlos Sainz jnr races formula one for Ferrari.

www.espn.com.au

Sainz, dad of F1 driver, now oldest Dakar champ

Carlos Sainz, the father of Formula One driver Carlos Sainz Jr., extended his record as the oldest winner of the Dakar Rally at the age of 61 with his fourth victory in the car category.
www.espn.com.au www.espn.com.au

Sainz Sr. finished 1 hour, 20 minutes, 25 seconds ahead of Belgian debutant Guillaume de Mevius for Overdrive Toyota with France's Sebastien Loeb, a nine-time world rally champion, third overall.

The Audi RS Q e-tron uses an energy converter, featuring a 2.0-liter, four-cylinder turbo engine, to charge the car's high-voltage battery while driving.

"This car is so special. It's so difficult to manage. It has been so difficult to make it work. ... I'm so happy for Audi," said Sainz Sr., who held the lead from Stage 6 after Saudi driver Yazeed Al-Rajhi crashed out. "To be here with my age and to stay at the level, you need to work a lot before. It's not coming just like that. It shows that when you work hard, normally it pays off."

Sainz Sr., who withdrew from last year's event after fracturing his T5 and T6 vertebrae in a crash, has now won the Dakar with four different manufacturers, along claiming titles with Volkswagen in 2010, Peugeot in 2018 and Mini in 2020.
 
sptrawler said:
Carlos Sainz won the 2024 Paris Dakar rally car section in an Audi ETron hybrid electric car, it's Sainz's fourth win and Audi's first.

Sainz snr aged 61 is a rally driving legend and this win makes him the oldest Paris Dakar winner. His son Carlos Sainz jnr races formula one for Ferrari.

www.espn.com.au

Sainz, dad of F1 driver, now oldest Dakar champ

Carlos Sainz, the father of Formula One driver Carlos Sainz Jr., extended his record as the oldest winner of the Dakar Rally at the age of 61 with his fourth victory in the car category.
www.espn.com.au www.espn.com.au

Sainz Sr. finished 1 hour, 20 minutes, 25 seconds ahead of Belgian debutant Guillaume de Mevius for Overdrive Toyota with France's Sebastien Loeb, a nine-time world rally champion, third overall.

The Audi RS Q e-tron uses an energy converter, featuring a 2.0-liter, four-cylinder turbo engine, to charge the car's high-voltage battery while driving.

"This car is so special. It's so difficult to manage. It has been so difficult to make it work. ... I'm so happy for Audi," said Sainz Sr., who held the lead from Stage 6 after Saudi driver Yazeed Al-Rajhi crashed out. "To be here with my age and to stay at the level, you need to work a lot before. It's not coming just like that. It shows that when you work hard, normally it pays off."

Sainz Sr., who withdrew from last year's event after fracturing his T5 and T6 vertebrae in a crash, has now won the Dakar with four different manufacturers, along claiming titles with Volkswagen in 2010, Peugeot in 2018 and Mini in 2020.
Click to expand...
honestly incredible achievement for Sainz Sr. His victory not only showcases the technological marvel of the Audi RS Q e-tron with its innovative energy converter but also underlines his unparalleled skill and dedication to the sport, good stuff
 
mullokintyre said:
MG have dropped the price of its EV range, one model by up to $9,000.
Note MG also make ICE versions, which do not appear to have had the same price drops.
In an era of high inflation, price drops are most unusual, except in the case of EV's.
Have we reached peak EV saturation?
Is there too much stocl?
Have all the EV buyers done their buying, and the rest of the population need more convincing?
From The Driven
Click to expand...
EV’s are quite new to MG, when you release a new product that you spent a lot of money developing, early sales have to have a large profit margin so they can make back all the development and design expenses.

But after you have sold a certain amount, and recovered the design expenses, and the production lines have paid for them selves, you can reduce the prices.

thats why when the a new PlayStation, is released it sold at a super high price, but then after 2 years they are pumping them out much cheaper, its the same with new drugs.
 
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