Electric cars?

[boofhead]

To compound the problem, the recent decline in battery metal prices is further delaying mining projects due to lack of capital. Lithium prices have plummeted more than 80%, while other battery metal inputs, such as cobalt, nickel, and graphite are down more than 30%. If prices don’t recover, it will deepen shortages of materials in the coming years, putting the brakes on governments’ ambitious agendas to decarbonize their economies.

Sounds like current demand is being met. Any battery producers using the spot market should be able to reduce price of their products...

 

[orr]

There's a fair bit of cross-over with the last few posts in 'Investment Implications of Climate Change' thread in the following, not least of note is the fallacy as to threat to labour. A comparison of Union membership in Norway circa 50% ( an ACTU wet dream) as opposed Australia about 11%.



or put into youtube '

How Norway Built An EV Utopia While The U.S. Is Struggling To Go Electric | CNBC Documentary​

 

[wayneL]

Hertz says "yeah, nah" to EVs

 

[farmerge]

Hertz says "yeah, nah" to EVs

so Wayne it's yes/no. Appears they can't make up their minds on this.
Though in modern speak I presume this phrase means one or the other.

 

[qldfrog]

Quick visit to provide interested technologist with a nice tech design:

Pi-POP's Third-Gen E-Bike: No Lithium, French Ingenuity and Unlimited Pedal Power - Karmactive

Discover Pi-POP's 3rd-gen e-bike: a sustainable French marvel with a lithium-free supercapacitor for constant, clean energy. Perfect for eco-smart cyclists.

www.karmactive.com

I believe this could be a nice concept for hybrids or even EVs, with braking energy reused via super capacitors instead of battery.so you could have raw power (which is just fighting friction/ air resistance) provided by ice/lithium battery and capacitors dealing with quick discharge/regen recharge on braking.
In any case very interesting on an ebike you never recharge and in a nutshell,can transform any bike ride into a flat trip effort

 

[Value Collector]

so Wayne it's yes/no. Appears they can't make up their minds on this.
Though in modern speak I presume this phrase means one or the other.

At the moment EV’s are a difficult space for rental cars, Even me as an avid EV owner won’t rent an EV when I travel because they charge to much for the rental.

if I just want a car to pick up at the airport and drive around for a couple of days I don’t want to pay double for an EV. So I rent the cheapest compact.

but for my daily drive at home I don’t want a Petol car.

but once the rental car companies offer cheaper EV’s I would ofcourse rent one.

 

[basilio]

Quick visit to provide interested technologist with a nice tech design:

Pi-POP's Third-Gen E-Bike: No Lithium, French Ingenuity and Unlimited Pedal Power - Karmactive

Discover Pi-POP's 3rd-gen e-bike: a sustainable French marvel with a lithium-free supercapacitor for constant, clean energy. Perfect for eco-smart cyclists.

www.karmactive.com

I believe this could be a nice concept for hybrids or even EVs, with braking energy reused via super capacitors instead of battery.so you could have raw power (which is just fighting friction/ air resistance) provided by ice/lithium battery and capacitors dealing with quick discharge/regen recharge on braking.
In any case very interesting on an ebike you never recharge and in a nutshell,can transform any bike ride into a flat trip effort

Interesting... A super capacitor does need to be charged . It does recycle the wasted energy. As you point out a mixture of the two technologies makes sense.

This technology however is really cool. They incorporate super capacitors in the electrical cabling. Worth checking out.

Batteries vs. Supercapacitors? The Answer is Both. — Capacitech Energy

Batteries have a slower charge and discharge relative to supercapacitors and supercapacitors cannot discharge for nearly as long as batteries. One of the challenges that designers face is finding the physical space to use both batteries and supercapacitors in their product or system. This challenge

www.capacitechenergy.com

 

[mullokintyre]

Why something like this is not more widely available is beyond me.

 

[Value Collector]

Why something like this is not more widely available is beyond me.
View attachment 171291

Yep it’s crazy, even the new chargers at Ampol service stations require you to have an app and an account, But they don’t require that for their petrol bowsers, I don’t understand why they don’t treat them the same.

Now don’t get triggered here, but this is a big part of the reason I only really charger at Tesla super chargers, you just plug in and charge, No connecting through an app, no tapping card you just plug in, it recognises your car and bills you to your linked card automagically.

 

[mullokintyre]

Four hydrogen fuel vehicles sold last year, probably to government fleet.

EV Index - AAA - Data Dashboard

data.aaa.asn.au

Lets hope the are cheaper to run than the US version.
From Top Speed

Toyota is one of very few global manufacturers currently invested in multiple fuel and energy sources for its cars. Gasoline and electrification are two of its biggest projects, but it has also shown a strong dedication to developing hydrogen. The Toyota Mirai is one of few hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles sold in the U.S., all of which are sold to the Californian market, as this is the only area with a comprehensive hydrogen fueling network.

These prices may seem a bit extreme, but you'll be elated to learn that Toyota covers the cost of fuel for the first six years of ownership. If you lease the car, you only get three years worth of fuel. In both cases, refueling is limited to a total of $15,000.

The 2024 Toyota Mirai starts at $50,190. The base trim is a highly specified XLE, so it is crammed with comfort, convenience, entertainment, and safety features. At this price, it does make the hydrogen option a very inaccessible product, as there are many similar-sized EVs boasting lower starting prices.

As already stated, the Mirai is a very niche car option and does not generate much success for Toyota in the North American market. In 2023, Toyota sold an impressive 2,248,477 units. 2,737 of these were Mirais. It's worth noting that this was an all-time best for the moniker, even outperforming the Supra by 85 examples.

The Toyota Mirai Costs $200 To Refill​

True Zero is currently the lead hydrogen supplier in California, and currently charges $36 for a kilogram. The Mirai accommodates 5.6 kg of hydrogen in its 142.2-liter tan

Mick

k, meaning you'll have to spend $201.60 to refuel. This is an obscene amount that both fossil fuels and electricity drastically outprice.

 

[basilio]

Now this is a really clever scheme It helps poorer people reduce their vehicle running costs, supports a local; car industry, drives electric use and promotes the cheaper end of electric car production..

It was so good the French government had to halt its expansion.

France halts €100-a-month electric car leasing scheme after huge demand​

Minister says scheme to help low-income households and cut emissions is ‘victim of its own success’

Kim Willsher
Tue 13 Feb 2024 23.23 AEDTLast modified on Thu 15 Feb 2024 22.40 AEDT


The French government has suspended an electric car leasing scheme after only six weeks following a surge in demand that more than doubled the number of vehicles required.

Officials said the scheme, launched in December to help low-income households and cut carbon emissions, would be relaunched next year.

Originally, 25,000 European-built electric cars were to be offered to lease from €100 (£85) a month, but this was doubled after massive demand. The government said it had received more than 90,000 applications by the end of January.

“It’s a real success story and symbolic of French environmental policy. It is good for the wallet and good for the planet,” an adviser to President Emmanuel Macron said.

Motorists who balked at the cost of buying an electric car – which are typically more expensive than a petrol or diesel vehicle – were offered a means-tested leasing scheme at a cost of €100-€150 a month for a vehicle worth €47,000 or under.

Applicants had to be over 18, live in France, live at least 15km (9 miles) from their place of work and drive more than 8,000km a year as part of their professional activity and have a household taxable income of less than €15,400 a person. The three-year leasing contract can be renewed once with the option to buy the vehicle, which must have been manufactured in France or elsewhere in Europe. The government is subsidising each vehicle up to a maximum of €13,000.

France halts €100-a-month electric car leasing scheme after huge demand

Minister says scheme to help low-income households and cut emissions is ‘victim of its own success’

www.theguardian.com

 

[mullokintyre]

Now this is a really clever scheme It helps poorer people reduce their vehicle running costs, supports a local; car industry, drives electric use and promotes the cheaper end of electric car production..

It was so good the French government had to halt its expansion.

France halts €100-a-month electric car leasing scheme after huge demand​

Minister says scheme to help low-income households and cut emissions is ‘victim of its own success’

Kim Willsher
Tue 13 Feb 2024 23.23 AEDTLast modified on Thu 15 Feb 2024 22.40 AEDT


The French government has suspended an electric car leasing scheme after only six weeks following a surge in demand that more than doubled the number of vehicles required.

Officials said the scheme, launched in December to help low-income households and cut carbon emissions, would be relaunched next year.

Originally, 25,000 European-built electric cars were to be offered to lease from €100 (£85) a month, but this was doubled after massive demand. The government said it had received more than 90,000 applications by the end of January.

“It’s a real success story and symbolic of French environmental policy. It is good for the wallet and good for the planet,” an adviser to President Emmanuel Macron said.

Motorists who balked at the cost of buying an electric car – which are typically more expensive than a petrol or diesel vehicle – were offered a means-tested leasing scheme at a cost of €100-€150 a month for a vehicle worth €47,000 or under.

Applicants had to be over 18, live in France, live at least 15km (9 miles) from their place of work and drive more than 8,000km a year as part of their professional activity and have a household taxable income of less than €15,400 a person. The three-year leasing contract can be renewed once with the option to buy the vehicle, which must have been manufactured in France or elsewhere in Europe. The government is subsidising each vehicle up to a maximum of €13,000.

France halts €100-a-month electric car leasing scheme after huge demand

Minister says scheme to help low-income households and cut emissions is ‘victim of its own success’

www.theguardian.com

Doubt folks in Charge would do the same here.
Mick

 

[basilio]

Doubt folks in Charge would do the same here.
Mick

I don't know Mick. I think it is a very clever and thoughtful scheme.
In Australia we don't have a home car industry to support so that issue is out. We tend to drive further than French drivers so the savings on fuel costs would be higher.
It would be interesting to consider where the cut off point for car price and household income would be. If I was wanting to reduce the cost of living for low-middle income Australians and reduce CO2 emissions and accelerate the growth in electric cars this would an attractive proposition.

A couple of issues may be
1) Car insurance
2) Ensuring people can recharge at home at a reasonable price.

This is the French model which proved wildly popular.

Scheme to rent electric car for €100-a-month launches in France

We look at the government's social leasing scheme, explain who it is for, and how to apply

www.connexionfrance.com

French Government's €100-A-Month EV Leasing Plan Falls Victim To Its Own Success

French buyers jumped at the affordable €100-a-month electric car leasing program started by their government.

insideevs.com

 

[Knobby22]

Quick visit to provide interested technologist with a nice tech design:

Pi-POP's Third-Gen E-Bike: No Lithium, French Ingenuity and Unlimited Pedal Power - Karmactive

Discover Pi-POP's 3rd-gen e-bike: a sustainable French marvel with a lithium-free supercapacitor for constant, clean energy. Perfect for eco-smart cyclists.

www.karmactive.com

I believe this could be a nice concept for hybrids or even EVs, with braking energy reused via super capacitors instead of battery.so you could have raw power (which is just fighting friction/ air resistance) provided by ice/lithium battery and capacitors dealing with quick discharge/regen recharge on braking.
In any case very interesting on an ebike you never recharge and in a nutshell,can transform any bike ride into a flat trip effort

I want one! Stuff batteries.

The Mazda 6 had one but I believe it was pretty ineffective, but on a bicycle it would be cool.

 

[Knobby22]

Hmm

No More EV Battery Replacements? VW's Solid State Cell Holds Up for 300K Miles

EV batteries tend to lose range capacity over their lifetime, but Volkswagen-backed startup PowerCo says it tested one from California-based QuantumScape that 'practically does not age.'

me.pcmag.com

 

[basilio]

Hmm

No More EV Battery Replacements? VW's Solid State Cell Holds Up for 300K Miles

EV batteries tend to lose range capacity over their lifetime, but Volkswagen-backed startup PowerCo says it tested one from California-based QuantumScape that 'practically does not age.'

me.pcmag.com

All good. I was under the impression that Tesla and others were promoting million mile plus batteries already. Essentially batteries for way beyond life on their current vehicles. CATL is also up there with loooong life batteries.

Tesla Researcher Demonstrates 100-Year, 4-Million-Mile Battery

One of the biggest concerns about EVs is that the batteries will need replacing after a few years, at great expense. But a Tesla researcher has demonstrated batteries that could potentially outlive most human beings.

www.forbes.com

CATL: Staying on top of the battery game

For the seventh year in the row, China-based Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. (CATL) looks set to claim the title of the world’s biggest battery maker. There are a number of reasons why it continues to maintain its lead in the electric vehicle (EV) and battery energy storage system (BESS)...

www.pv-magazine.com

In terms of cycle life, CATL has already made and deployed batteries capable of cycling 12,000 times. In 2020, CATL deployed the 12,000-cycle ultra-long-life batteries at the Jinjiang 100 MWh Energy Storage Power Station, which has been operating safely ever since, according to the company. CATL’s stated goal is to increase the cycle life to 18,000 cycles.

 

[Smurf1976]

Yep it’s crazy, even the new chargers at Ampol service stations require you to have an app and an account, But they don’t require that for their petrol bowsers, I don’t understand why they don’t treat them the same.

Suffice to say I just don't get the whole obsession with apps for this, that and everything else. Why does the customer need to use a phone to charge a car?

As for the account, unless they're providing credit (interest free obviously) with payment after receiving an invoice then why the need for an account?

It reminds me of the now defunct Tandy Electronics back in the 1980's that wanted a name and address to sell you even the simplest item for cash payment. The invoices were hand written yes - in an electronics store that sold computers.

 

[sptrawler]

Reality starting to catch up with the cult like ideology driving the EV sector, my guess is the whole renewable sector is fast approaching a reality check.
As we keep saying, it boils back to energy density and battery technology just doesn't have it yet, to take over 100% from fossil fuel.
All that's going to happen at the moment is, the extra costs that ICE drivers are going to have to wear will just be another indirect tax, just like smoking except those who have to have an ICE car wont be able to avoid it.
Just my worth.

Mercedes-Benz Delays Its EV Plans, Will Keep Making Combustion Engines

Mercedes-Benz wanted to go fully electric by 2030 but now plans to continue selling ICE cars well into the next decade.

insideevs.com

The company says it will be “strategically focused” and “tactically flexible,” as it waits for demand to catch up, the charging infrastructure to mature, and the supply chain to improve. Following the latest development, the carmaker's stock price went up 5.9% and was also supported by a $3.3 billion share buyback program late on Wednesday.

Over the past couple of years, we’ve seen an EV onslaught from the German automaker in Europe. Even in the U.S., Mercedes-Benz now offers six pure electric models, including the EQB SUV, EQE and EQS sedans and SUVs, and the opulent Mercedes-Maybach EQS SUV. It also sold a record number of EVs in 2023.


Even though Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius has pledged for his company to go fully electric, he has also stated that the internal combustion engine would die a natural death and that Mercedes-Benz wouldn’t transition “artificially.” In a nutshell, Mercedes-Benz ICE cars will continue to exist as long as customers want them.

How the carmaker plans to continue developing its electrified powertrains will be worth keeping an eye on. Reports emerged in August 2023 of Mercedes-Benz developing its M252 engine to function as a range-extender—a set-up where the engine works as a generator to charge the EV’s battery and functions independently from the electric motors that directly drive the wheels.

The Ramcharger or some Geely models in China like the Galaxy L7 SUV use range extenders, as did the BMW i3 and Chevy Volt. The technology improves the EV’s overall driving range by reducing reliance on the battery alone, providing increased flexibility, and eliminating range anxiety for drivers. But the caveat is it still needs fossil fuels for power, which is quite contradictory to what the EV and climate movement is all about.

 

[sptrawler]

It reminds me of the now defunct Tandy Electronics back in the 1980's that wanted a name and address to sell you even the simplest item for cash payment. The invoices were hand written yes - in an electronics store that sold computers.

Yes Tandy sold computers in 1980, but they were useless couldn't do anything, except a very basic space invaders with green blocks dropping from the top of the screen, I know because I bought one $1500 of early uptake cost.
Jeez I learned a lot from that purchase, one don't be an early uptaker and two if you are, quickly find someone sillier than yourself to on sell it to.
Come to think of it, it's a bit like spec shares.

 

[farmerge]

Yes Tandy sold computers in 1980, but they were useless couldn't do anything, except a very basic space invaders with green blocks dropping from the top of the screen, I know because I bought one $1500 of early uptake cost.
Jeez I learned a lot from that purchase, one don't be an early uptaker and two if you are, quickly find someone sillier than yourself to on sell it to.
Come to think of it, it's a bit like spec shares.

A blast from the past Tandy Electronics, probably only Uncle Gerry left these days on a grand scale.