Certainly a lot has changed since 2017, The model 3 and Y have come out and dominated the market, in 2017 there was basically no public chargers, now you can drive all over the place using public chargers.I'm still not sold on evs. Multiple reasons.
Some of those reasons is the large scale adoption that needs to happen. I just can't see it happening at the moment due to issues with infrastructure and practicality.
I was arguing with someone on here back in I think 2017 - 2019 about how I thought it would take a decade to see large scale adoption. They argued it would be 2 years and evs were ready to go. I still don't see many of the concerns I had then being addressed now.
Even when we do hit numbers I can see a whole other set of problems opening up.
of course if you bought a REAL EV like a BYD Atto 3 you could use V2L to power your home from your electric car battery, unlike those so old school Teslas which lack the inverter for V2l.Certainly a lot has changed since 2017, The model 3 and Y have come out and dominated the market, in 2017 there was basically no public chargers, now you can drive all over the place using public chargers.
Which of your concerns from 2017 have not been met or in the process of being met.
Sorry Mick, Some of the Electric cars offer "bidirectional charging" but I don't believe they can power your home if there is a black out in the same way as a Tesla power wall can. The car will let you draw power from the car at night etc to power your home, but only if the grid is operating.of course if you bought a REAL EV like a BYD Atto 3 you could use V2L to power your home from your electric car battery, unlike those so old school Teslas which lack the inverter for V2l.
Is there one of those emotive things that equates to a smirk?
Mick
Why is it that everything has to be Tesla?Sorry Mick, Some of the Electric cars offer "bidirectional charging" but I don't believe they can power your home if there is a black out in the same way as a Tesla power wall can.
You need to talk to an electrician to update your "belief".The car will let you draw power from the car at night etc to power your home, but only if the grid is operating.
That is entirely dependent on how its wired in.I believe once you lose the grid connection, the car is no longer able to power your house through your connection or accept charge from the solar panels, once you lose grid connection your home is basically switched off. You can use the power points in the car and some extension leads though.
Buying a V2L capable vehicle is a hell of a lot heaper than buying solar panels, inverters and a set of batteries.However, if you have a Tesla power wall you can basically run your house without a grid connection during the black out, and when the sun comes up on your solar panels do some higher usage things like charge your car. The reason for this is that the house has to have a way to isolate itself from the grid, which requires external switches to be fitted to the house, to prevent your house electrocuting workmen working on repairing the grid.
Ammonia powered cars catching up with EV's ?
Not many yet i'd say, but who knows? Lithium is a non renewable materialHow many have they sold?
1. This is the electric car thread and I was replying to a person saying black outs might be bad for electric cars, and Tesla is a car manufacturer who also makes batteries, Also I don't personally know much about any of the other battery systems, but feel free to share your thoughts on the others.1. Why is it that everything has to be Tesla?
Are you not aware of the myriad battery supply systems out there, some of which are technically superior to Tesla powerwall?
2. You need to talk to an electrician to update your "belief".
What you said makes no sense, why would you draw pwoer from the car to the car at night?
That is entirely dependent on how its wired in.
Systems such as natures generator 12 iorcuit switches allow grid, backup generator, or a vehicle equipeed with V2l to feed into the house.
there is a video going around that I cannot find showing a Ford Lightning powering a house using V2l.
The only limitation is the capacity of the inverter in the vehicle.
Buying a V2L capable vehicle is a hell of a lot heaper than buying solar panels, inverters and a set of batteries.
Technically, you could install a backup batteries without a set of panels if you wanted to.
It depends entirely on how long you want backup to be available.
When I set mine up, there is switching capability for attaching a DC generator to the system to keep the batteries charged if there is an extended grid failure and its really overcast or nightime.
Depends on your requirements, your budget, what level of redundancy you want.
And it does not all have to be made by Tesla.
Mick
Mick
That would be fantastic for my FMG shares, However for cars its not really practical for 2 reasons.Ammonia powered cars catching up with EV's ?
Lithium is fairly abundant, and it’s recyclable, so it might not be renewable, but it’s practically infinite.Not many yet i'd say, but who knows? Lithium is a non renewable material
Farm use is another where electric's problematic and some sort of chemical approach has a lot of potential.But for ships, planes, Trains and Trucks maybe there is a market.
Anything dug out of the ground is non renewable. It would be good to gave an ammonia industry as an alternative, also considering that ammonia is a component of fertiliser a lot of which we import.Lithium is fairly abundant, and it’s recyclable, so it might not be renewable, but it’s practically infinite.
also, lithium batteries are just one type of battery, who knows how many different types of batteries can be invented utilising different materials.
FMG are already working on Ammonia production for their trains and ships.Anything dug out of the ground is non renewable. It would be good to gave an ammonia industry as an alternative, also considering that ammonia is a component of fertiliser a lot of which we import.
Governments trying to mandate outcomes is always concerning.Canada is going full steam ( I mean full electrons) ahead with driving EV uptake, one does wonder if it will be another example of reality catching up with ideology.
Time will tell, we use that phrase a lot these days, as we venture into the unknown.
From the article:
The Canadian government continues to forge ahead with new regulations for curbing and eventually ending sales of gas-powered vehicles. Canada’s Electric Vehicle Availability Standard published in mid-December calls for 100% zero-emissions vehicles (ZEV) by 2035.
Under the new Electric Vehicle Availability Standard, auto manufacturers and importers must meet annual ZEV regulated sales targets. The targets begin for the 2026 model year, with a requirement that at least 20% of new light-duty vehicles offered for sale in that year be ZEVs. The requirements increase annually to 60% by 2030 and 100% by 2035.
This is only one part of the government’s ambitious 2030 Emissions Reduction Plan put in place in 2022. The plan targets emissions reductions of 40% below 2005 levels by 2030 and net-zero emissions by 2050.
These ambitious goals are similar to other countries. The United States aims to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 50% below 2005 levels by 2030. The European Union targets reducing emissions by at least 55% below 1990 levels by 2030. Even China has set the goal to increase renewable energy as the primary source of energy consumption from current levels of around 15% to 25% by 2030 — and pledged to achieve carbon neutrality before 2060.
These goals are admirable, but the reality is that meeting them will require more critical minerals than are currently in the production pipeline.
To meet international EV adoption targets, the world will need 50 new lithium mines, 60 new nickel mines and 17 new cobalt mines by 2030, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA). Cathode materials, anode materials and battery cells will also require additional raw material, adding up to about 388 new mines, it says.
Geopolitics, namely tensions between the US and China and the West and Russia, have introduced new supply risks as global trade splinters. But even friendly nations could present supply risks caused by changing political landscapes, social unrest, or civil wars. For example, unrest in Mexico, Peru and Chile has led to strikes and temporary mine closures. While geopolitical risks are top of mind, the main supply constraint for critical minerals remains the need for increased mine production along with new infrastructure to refine the minerals, a report by the International Renewable Energy Agency (IREA) found last year (Geopolitics of the Energy Transition: Critical Metals).
To compound the problem, the recent decline in battery metal prices is further delaying mining projects due to lack of capital. Lithium prices have plummeted more than 80%, while other battery metal inputs, such as cobalt, nickel, and graphite are down more than 30%. If prices don’t recover, it will deepen shortages of materials in the coming years, putting the brakes on governments’ ambitious agendas to decarbonize their economies.
Analysis from S&P Global Market Intelligence (June 2023) reports that the global average lead times for mine development from discovery to production is 15.7 years, and in Canada this timeline is about nearly 26 months longer.
Investor interest in mining is currently very low partly because of the long-time horizon and the uncertainty that exploration stage projects will be economically viable.
Yes I tend to think the Toyota head honcho has got a pretty realistic outlook on the EV scene.Governments trying to mandate outcomes is always concerning.
EVs have to be shown to be competitive with ICE vehicles in ways that are important to consumers (including price) rather than forcing a particular outcome on the public.
Although the decision will be popular with the Green Nazis, the rest of the population may have other ideas
I was in Canada last year, was surprised at the large numbers of Ev’s. it’s makes sense there, they have huge renewable electricity supply, and would allow them to export more oil.Canada is going full steam ( I mean full electrons) ahead with driving EV uptake, one does wonder if it will be another example of reality catching up with ideology.
Time will tell, we use that phrase a lot these days, as we venture into the unknown.
From the article:
The Canadian government continues to forge ahead with new regulations for curbing and eventually ending sales of gas-powered vehicles. Canada’s Electric Vehicle Availability Standard published in mid-December calls for 100% zero-emissions vehicles (ZEV) by 2035.
Under the new Electric Vehicle Availability Standard, auto manufacturers and importers must meet annual ZEV regulated sales targets. The targets begin for the 2026 model year, with a requirement that at least 20% of new light-duty vehicles offered for sale in that year be ZEVs. The requirements increase annually to 60% by 2030 and 100% by 2035.
This is only one part of the government’s ambitious 2030 Emissions Reduction Plan put in place in 2022. The plan targets emissions reductions of 40% below 2005 levels by 2030 and net-zero emissions by 2050.
These ambitious goals are similar to other countries. The United States aims to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 50% below 2005 levels by 2030. The European Union targets reducing emissions by at least 55% below 1990 levels by 2030. Even China has set the goal to increase renewable energy as the primary source of energy consumption from current levels of around 15% to 25% by 2030 — and pledged to achieve carbon neutrality before 2060.
These goals are admirable, but the reality is that meeting them will require more critical minerals than are currently in the production pipeline.
To meet international EV adoption targets, the world will need 50 new lithium mines, 60 new nickel mines and 17 new cobalt mines by 2030, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA). Cathode materials, anode materials and battery cells will also require additional raw material, adding up to about 388 new mines, it says.
Geopolitics, namely tensions between the US and China and the West and Russia, have introduced new supply risks as global trade splinters. But even friendly nations could present supply risks caused by changing political landscapes, social unrest, or civil wars. For example, unrest in Mexico, Peru and Chile has led to strikes and temporary mine closures. While geopolitical risks are top of mind, the main supply constraint for critical minerals remains the need for increased mine production along with new infrastructure to refine the minerals, a report by the International Renewable Energy Agency (IREA) found last year (Geopolitics of the Energy Transition: Critical Metals).
To compound the problem, the recent decline in battery metal prices is further delaying mining projects due to lack of capital. Lithium prices have plummeted more than 80%, while other battery metal inputs, such as cobalt, nickel, and graphite are down more than 30%. If prices don’t recover, it will deepen shortages of materials in the coming years, putting the brakes on governments’ ambitious agendas to decarbonize their economies.
Analysis from S&P Global Market Intelligence (June 2023) reports that the global average lead times for mine development from discovery to production is 15.7 years, and in Canada this timeline is about nearly 26 months longer.
Investor interest in mining is currently very low partly because of the long-time horizon and the uncertainty that exploration stage projects will be economically viable.
I'll be there in May, so it will be interesting to see how it compares with Perth.I was in Canada last year, was surprised at the large numbers of Ev’s. it’s makes sense there, they have huge renewable electricity supply, and would allow them to export more oil.
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