Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

They probably don‘t plan on policing it, it just gives them an out if there is a fire related to an e-bike, and they get to stick the damage bill on the tenant / owner occupier.

I have had and still have ebikes and scooters and have done a lot of km's on them, the first scooters I bought were Segway ES2's and put range extender batteries on them, I have since moved them on.
One went to a friend in need and was stolen, the other went to one of my sons and is still going, it has done a lot of km's.
So the two scooters we have had for the last three years, we still use weekly.
We have five electric bikes, two are used nearly every day, the other three I will probably move on due to lack of use.
We have never had any issue with charging, I leave them on charge overnight, usually by accident, as I would normally take them off to er on safety.
Like I said most of the issues are from home baked half ar$ed setups IMO.

 

[farmerge]

I have had and still have ebikes and scooters and have done a lot of km's on them, the first scooters I bought were Segway ES2's and put range extender batteries on them, I have since moved them on.
One went to a friend in need and was stolen, the other went to one of my sons and is still going, it has done a lot of km's.
So the two scooters we have had for the last three years, we still use weekly.
We have five electric bikes, two are used nearly every day, the other three I will probably move on due to lack of use.
We have never had any issue with charging, I leave them on charge overnight, usually by accident, as I would normally take them off to er on safety.
Like I said most of the issues are from home baked half ar$ed setups IMO.

Give a fool a reason to stuff something up and it will happen.

 

[Belli]

Give a fool a reason to stuff something up and it will happen.

Some information from NSW Fire & Rescue. Given they are the people who are called to put out the blaze which was caused by effwittery, it would be nice if people took notice. The hint is don't use after-market chargers.

Lithium-ion battery safety

www.fire.nsw.gov.au

Pretty sure other the firies on other States have similar suggestions.

 

[Value Collector]

I have had and still have ebikes and scooters and have done a lot of km's on them, the first scooters I bought were Segway ES2's and put range extender batteries on them, I have since moved them on.
One went to a friend in need and was stolen, the other went to one of my sons and is still going, it has done a lot of km's.
So the two scooters we have had for the last three years, we still use weekly.
We have five electric bikes, two are used nearly every day, the other three I will probably move on due to lack of use.
We have never had any issue with charging, I leave them on charge overnight, usually by accident, as I would normally take them off to er on safety.
Like I said most of the issues are from home baked half ar$ed setups IMO.

Batteries are safe if they are constructed well, I think as long as you stick to quality equipment both batteries and chargers, and use common sense like not charging equipment that is damaged etc, you should be fine.

I am in the market for an e-bike, I think they are great. anything that can get more people out exercising and exploring, not to mention avoiding some car use has to be great for both the environment and their physical and mental health.

 

[mullokintyre]

Batteries are safe if they are constructed well, I think as long as you stick to quality equipment both batteries and chargers, and use common sense like not charging equipment that is damaged etc, you should be fine.

I am in the market for an e-bike, I think they are great. anything that can get more people out exercising and exploring, not to mention avoiding some car use has to be great for both the environment and their physical and mental health.

If its exercise and avoiding car use is what you recommend, why not just buy a regular bike that requires all pedal power?
Fulfils all the above requirements, plus costs less, does not need charging, much simpler to recycle, hardly ever catches fire spontaneously, and has a smaller weight form factor on our poorly maintained roads!
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

If its exercise and avoiding car use is what you recommend, why not just buy a regular bike that requires all pedal power?
Fulfils all the above requirements, plus costs less, does not need charging, much simpler to recycle, hardly ever catches fire spontaneously, and has a smaller weight form factor on our poorly maintained roads!
Mick

A few reasons,

1, an e-bike can encourage an obese person or some one with really low fitness to take up riding, where they would normally avoid it totally. It can get them out there enjoying activities with family without the worry of being embarrassed, by having push the bike up hill or lagging behind in a sweaty mess.

2. Even a fit person can benefit by having an e-bike as it is effectively a range extender, allowing them to travel further than they would normally be comfortable with while runnings errands or allow them to travel with greater ease in hot weather etc in situations they don't want to arrive a work or friends housing sweating.

3. They are great for working riders such as Uber eats or bicycle couriers, because again it’s a range extender, and in and around metropolitan areas can be faster than cars.


————————

 

[sptrawler]

My two cents worth regarding purchasing an ebike:
Be brutally honest with yourself, do you want the ebike for exercise, or do you want the ebike because it makes riding a bike less work.
If it is because it is less work, buy a hub drive electric, they are cheap very simple and work very well in reducing the amount of time you need to pedal.
If you want it mainly for exercise and have a more natural riding experience, get a quality centre drive ebike with either Bosch, Shimano or Yamaha drive motor and battery.
The centre drive is just the same as riding a normal bike, no matter how much assist you have, you still have to pedal, but if you face a strong headwind or a major rise, increasing the assist is just like having stronger legs, but you still pedal and have to put in effort if you stop pedaling it stops.
The centre drive IMO is on the whole much nicer experience, but much dearer to purchase, IMO it is worth the extra money and is the reason I'm selling the hub drives.
I prefer to ride a normal bike, over the hub drive ebike, I just don't find them enjoyable.
They are o.k if you just want a non car, fast form of transport, but zero enjoyment for me.
You get what you pay for IMO.
Hub drive has the electric motor in either the front wheel or the back wheel.
Centre drive has the motor mechanism incorporated in the pedals and chain wheel assembly.

 

[Value Collector]

My two cents worth regarding purchasing an ebike:
Be brutally honest with yourself, do you want the ebike for exercise, or do you want the ebike because it makes riding a bike less work.
If it is because it is less work, buy a hub drive electric, they are cheap very simple and work very well in reducing the amount of time you need to pedal.
If you want it mainly for exercise and have a more natural riding experience, get a quality centre drive ebike with either Bosch, Shimano or Yamaha drive motor and battery.
The centre drive is just the same as riding a normal bike, no matter how much assist you have, you still have to pedal, but if you face a strong headwind or a major rise, increasing the assist is just like having stronger legs, but you still pedal and have to put in effort if you stop pedaling it stops.
The centre drive IMO is on the whole much nicer experience, but much dearer to purchase, IMO it is worth the extra money and is the reason I'm selling the hub drives.
I prefer to ride a normal bike, over the hub drive ebike, I just don't find them enjoyable.
They are o.k if you just want a non car, fast form of transport, but zero enjoyment for me.
You get what you pay for IMO.

My Dad is in his 70’s he has always been a cyclist, he rides about 30kms at a time about 3 days a week, but he is starting to feel his age.

So he recently got an electric bike, I think it’s a centre drive, he has to pedal to make it work, but has a few different assist settings, he loves it. Most of the time he has it on low assist, so is still getting good exercise, but his aging legs don’t have to stress going up hills, and he can make it home easier if he bites off more than he can chew.

 

[farmerge]

Some information from NSW Fire & Rescue. Given they are the people who are called to put out the blaze which was caused by effwittery, it would be nice if people took notice. The hint is don't use after-market chargers.

Lithium-ion battery safety

www.fire.nsw.gov.au

Pretty sure other the firies on other States have similar suggestions.

Most definitely. Been a few over here in recent times.

 

[sptrawler]

My Dad is in his 70’s he has always been a cyclist, he rides about 30kms at a time about 3 days a week, but he is starting to feel his age.

So he recently got an electric bike, I think it’s a centre drive, he has to pedal to make it work, but has a few different assist settings, he loves it. Most of the time he has it on low assist, so is still getting good exercise, but his aging legs don’t have to stress going up hills, and he can make it home easier if he bites off more than he can chew.

Yes I'm 69 this year and in the same boat as your Dad, I've had both knees and a hip replaced, but have always been active. The wife and I do similar to your Dad 30km every second day, I use the assist same as your Dad on economy (low), while the wife doesn't use the battery at all she leaves it switched off, but it is there if she needs it. She is 67 but a fitness nut.


While on the subject of alternative electric transport, I may as well give my thoughts on escooters.
We have been riding them for about six years and yes they are dangerous, but that can be mitigated to a degree, on the other hand they are extremely versatile and useful.
The ebikes are more a leisure item, whereas the scooters are more a car alternative, therefore IMO usage is the main criteria rather than exercise. They are extremely versatile if they can be incorporated with public transport, they are small relative to a bicycle so are not too intrusive on a train and are quite easy to store at the destination.
So our main regular trip is to the daughters place in Perth, which is about 5km to the train, 60km on the train and then a further 10km on the scooters. If the wife leaves in the car to do the same trip, I will arrive at the destination at approx the same time, depending on traffic, if it is heavy I can beat her with the scooter.
Right so choice of scooter, unlike the ebike the main issue is range and ride, taking ride first.

With escooters your centre of gravity is extremely high and very forward, therefore if the scooter comes to a sudden stop, you do go over the front that's a given.
The best way to mitigate this if you are worried, is by riding at a sensible speed, avoiding potholes and the best thing is get one with a seat, this lowers your centre of gravity a lot and moves the weight to the rear wheel instead of over the front wheel, this is a much safer way to ride.
The next thing is suspension, if you are travelling any distance scooters can become tiring with the jarring, also the steering can be a little erratic due to the jarring, my scooter has suspension back and front, the wife's I installed suspension on the front at her request.

The next thing that affects ride and control is front or rear wheel drive, we have had both and rear wheel drive is much better IMO, the motor being in the front wheel adds a lot of weight to the front, where your weight bias is when standing anyway, also the braking effect of the throttle being shut down on the front wheel drive adds to the forward weight transfer.

Which leads to brakes, most escooters have regenerative braking, where the motor becomes a generator on deceleration therefore as with an EV they can be set up such that a lot of the braking can be done with throttle control. As far as mechanical brakes go, I would definitely go with disc brakes, the wife has drum front and regenerative rear, mine has discs front and back.

Now we go to well what is the main difference, in a word range, which as usual goes back to battery and motor size. Which size should you get? depends on your budget, the distance you want to do, the speed you want to travel at and your WEIGHT.

The wife's scooter has a 550 watt/hour battery and a 400w motor, she is approx the same height as me but 25kg lighter, she will get about 30% greater range from the same scooter.

My scooter has a 1500Wh battery and a 1,000w motor plus a 130kg load capacity.
If I use her scooter I would comfortably get 30km on low speed, on mine I will get about 70km.
She will get about 40km on hers and about 90km on mine.
So there are my thoughts on the escooters, dangerous? Yes I did break my leg being stupid, do I still use it? Yes it is still a fantastic and versatile piece of transportation.
You just have to be sensible riding it and set it up right first time, a seat and mirror is a must at my age.
With the seat the steering post on mine is height adjustable, so when I installed the seat I could lower the handlebars to suit, that was a consideration when I chose my scooter, the wife's doesn't have a seat, it is only standup, which she is happy with, eventually I will get her one like mine when hers wears out, but fortunately that is taking a long time.

 

[mullokintyre]

I could have sworn you said in your post you were in the market for an ebike.

A few reasons,

1, an e-bike can encourage an obese person or some one with really low fitness to take up riding, where they would normally avoid it totally. It can get them out there enjoying activities with family without the worry of being embarrassed, by having push the bike up hill or lagging behind in a sweaty mess.

So do you class yourself as an obese person?

2. Even a fit person can benefit by having an e-bike as it is effectively a range extender, allowing them to travel further than they would normally be comfortable with while runnings errands or allow them to travel with greater ease in hot weather etc in situations they don't want to arrive a work or friends housing sweating.

3. They are great for working riders such as Uber eats or bicycle couriers, because again it’s a range extender, and in and around metropolitan areas can be faster than cars.


————————

Sorry, I thought you said you were inn the market for an ebike.
How long have you been contemplating being an UBER eats person?
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

I could have sworn you said in your post you were in the market for an ebike.

So do you class yourself as an obese person?




Sorry, I thought you said you were inn the market for an ebike.
How long have you been contemplating being an UBER eats person?
Mick

Yeah I am in the market for an e-bike, mainly because I want to start riding with my dad, and although I am not obese, I am not as fit as I used to be and probably carrying about 8kg more than is ideal and he is on an e-bike, so I probably need one to keep up.

Also, I just think they are cool, the idea of being able to travel longer distances appeals to me so I would probably be some where In between category 1 and 2 that I mentioned. Being able to run errands etc with ease is also appealing.

hahaha, I am not going to do Uber eats, but will probably pick up my own take away.

 

[sptrawler]

I am not as fit as I used to be and probably carrying about 8kg more than is ideal and he is on an e-bike, so I probably need one to keep up.

If your carrying 8kg's more than is ideal, leave your wallet at home when you go for a ride, that should do it.

 

[Value Collector]

If your carrying 8kg's more than is ideal, leave your wallet at home when you go for a ride, that should do it.

I did that by mistake yesterday actually, so glad Apple Pay exists , was able to get through the entire day just paying using my phone.

 

[sptrawler]

Electric-car charging network Evie increases prices by up to 40 per cent

One of Australia's largest electric-vehicle charging networks – Evie – has increased prices for the second time in six months.

www.drive.com.au

 

[mullokintyre]

Electric-car charging network Evie increases prices by up to 40 per cent

One of Australia's largest electric-vehicle charging networks – Evie – has increased prices for the second time in six months.

www.drive.com.au

After I got that email from Evie telling me of the price increases, I did some quick calcs on driving the BYD versus driving my ICE Ranger.
The BYD at 100kmhr usually sucks up about 20 KWhr, so thats around $11.60 per 100km at the 50KW chargers, which is mostly what we use.
The ranger does about 12 litres diesel per 100km at the same speed, which at 1.80 per litre is $21.60.
So its still a lot cheaper to drive the EV.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

After I got that email from Evie telling me of the price increases, I did some quick calcs on driving the BYD versus driving my ICE Ranger.
The BYD at 100kmhr usually sucks up about 20 KWhr, so thats around $11.60 per 100km at the 50KW chargers, which is mostly what we use.
The ranger does about 12 litres diesel per 100km at the same speed, which at 1.80 per litre is $21.60.
So its still a lot cheaper to drive the EV.
Mick

Also, you get to charge at home before you leave on your trip and when you return home at cheaper rates. so it’s only that middle section of your journey that you need to buy more expensive electricity.

—————————
based on the life time stats of my Model 3, using the most expensive Evie charger at $0.73 per KW is $10.01 per 100km.

But if I charge from my Solar at $0.03 (cost price of solar system divided by life time output), it would cost about $0.42 per 100km.

But, if I import from the grid it at $0.30 per KW it costs $4.11 per 100km.

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting article on the effect extremely cold weather has on E.V range, fortunately Australia generally isn't an extremely cold place.

EVs Lose 30% Of Their Range On Average In The Winter Vs. Ideal Conditions

Tesla models seem to be the worst offenders when comparing the observed winter range to the original EPA range.

insideevs.com

 

[Value Collector]

Interesting article on the effect extremely cold weather has on E.V range, fortunately Australia generally isn't an extremely cold place.

EVs Lose 30% Of Their Range On Average In The Winter Vs. Ideal Conditions

Tesla models seem to be the worst offenders when comparing the observed winter range to the original EPA range.

insideevs.com

View attachment 168787

Extreme cold is harsh on all cars, even petrol cars need to be hooked up to electricity to keep them warm, or set so their engine turns on automatically every hour or so in some places.

These aren’t EV’s these are petrol cars soaking in the electrons to get themselves warm.

 

[Value Collector]

Interesting article on the effect extremely cold weather has on E.V range, fortunately Australia generally isn't an extremely cold place.

EVs Lose 30% Of Their Range On Average In The Winter Vs. Ideal Conditions

Tesla models seem to be the worst offenders when comparing the observed winter range to the original EPA range.

insideevs.com

View attachment 168787

Here is a Canadian that’s using his Tesla in -34 degrees. He seems to love it, it took 4 mins to warm up and he drove off, seems to be a very different Experience To some petrol cars in that sort of weather.

Starting a Tesla is minus 34 degrees.



VS starting a petrol car in extreme cold