Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

I don’t think you understand what I am saying, have another read of my last two posts.

I am asking you which of the range estimates you are talking about there are two.

1. “The rated range” eg what the brochure says the car will do, of course your actual experience will fluctuate wildly depending on what you are doing.

Or

2. You personal vehicles calculation that it makes for you that day (maybe your car doesn’t do this). When you plug in your destination into the GPS.

I will take a photo of what I mean today.

Basically number 2 is very accurate, number 1 is not.

I'm struggling to understand where you are confused.

Tesla accused of intentionally overestimating driving range, secretly dodging complaints – report

A special report claims Tesla created software which would deliberately overestimate the driving range of its vehicles.

www.drive.com.au

Tesla is under fire following a special report which alleges the company specifically installed software designed to overestimate the driving range displayed to drivers, while also employing underhand tactics to handle thousands of customer complaints.

 

[Value Collector]

I'm struggling to understand where you are confused.

Tesla accused of intentionally overestimating driving range, secretly dodging complaints – report

A special report claims Tesla created software which would deliberately overestimate the driving range of its vehicles.

www.drive.com.au

Tesla is under fire following a special report which alleges the company specifically installed software designed to overestimate the driving range displayed to drivers, while also employing underhand tactics to handle thousands of customer complaints.

Yeah, that’s not what I am talking about, I believe that is talking about the stated range that appears as your “fuel gauge” you can opt for it to be displayed as either a percentage (which I use) or km’s.

What I am talking about is the estimate it shows when you put your destination into the GPS, this is the best estimate to use, it’s very accurate.

Its the only estimate that actually takes all the variables into consideration, for example if you plug in a destination at the top of the blue mountains it takes the up hill driving into consideration, on the way back down it takes into consideration the regen, it’s not a simple calculation like X kms = X amount of battery usage.

 

[sptrawler]

Yeah, that’s not what I am talking about, I believe that is talking about the stated range that appears as your “fuel gauge” you can opt for it to be displayed as either a percentage (which I use) or km’s.

What I am talking about is the estimate it shows when you put your destination into the GPS, this is the best estimate to use, it’s very accurate.

Its the only estimate that actually takes all the variables into consideration, for example if you plug in a destination at the top of the blue mountains it takes the up hill driving into consideration, on the way back down it takes into consideration the regen, it’s not a simple calculation like X kms = X amount of battery usage.

Yes I was only discussing what the article was talking about and is a common issue on most EV's.

 

[ijrob6]

Like VC I rely on the battery usage estimate given by my model Y when I enter a navigation target. Over 19,200 kms I have never had it tell me a figure more than a very small percentage out (either way). I also use ABRP to plan accommodation stops before the trip and it is usually reliable - but not as good as the car.

The WLTP figure of 510 kms on the "fridge label" attached to my model Y is dreamland stuff - as it was for my last car (Subaru Forester) - but to my knowledge that figure is not arrived at by Tesla alone. Surprisingly the label gives the energy consumption as 146Wh/km whereas my consumption to date (19,200kms) is actually 143Wh/km - pretty close.

 

[sptrawler]

Yeah, that’s not what I am talking about, I believe that is talking about the stated range that appears as your “fuel gauge” you can opt for it to be displayed as either a percentage (which I use) or km’s.

What I am talking about is the estimate it shows when you put your destination into the GPS, this is the best estimate to use, it’s very accurate.

Its the only estimate that actually takes all the variables into consideration, for example if you plug in a destination at the top of the blue mountains it takes the up hill driving into consideration, on the way back down it takes into consideration the regen, it’s not a simple calculation like X kms = X amount of battery usage.

Like VC I rely on the battery usage estimate given by my model Y when I enter a navigation target. Over 19,200 kms I have never had it tell me a figure more than a very small percentage out (either way). I also use ABRP to plan accommodation stops before the trip and it is usually reliable - but not as good as the car.

The WLTP figure of 510 kms on the "fridge label" attached to my model Y is dreamland stuff - as it was for my last car (Subaru Forester) - but to my knowledge that figure is not arrived at by Tesla alone. Surprisingly the label gives the energy consumption as 146Wh/km whereas my consumption to date (19,200kms) is actually 143Wh/km - pretty close.

That's interesting re the accuracy of the navigator distance range estimator, so you don't have to put in the amount of occupants, temp etc?
I can't understand why they would use bogus code then, if they already have an accurate method range estimation, just integrate the two algorithms coding is their strong suite.
It seems strange to get themselves in trouble by risking fudge factors, that is what VW got in trouble for, coding to fudge emissions.
Could be interesting, but probably not.

 

[Value Collector]

That's interesting re the accuracy of the navigator distance range estimator, so you don't have to put in the amount of occupants, temp etc?
I can't understand why they would use bogus code then, if they already have an accurate method range estimation, just integrate the two algorithms coding is their strong suite.
It seems strange to get themselves in trouble by risking fudge factors, that is what VW got in trouble for, coding to fudge emissions.
Could be interesting, but probably not.

I am not sure, but the article is basically third hand information so who knows what is true, all I can say is that the live range estimate is very accurate.
————————-

But, What I know is definitely not accurate is the “fuel gauge” range. It is just basically a count down.

Eg. At 100% charge it says you have 400km, 50% charge it says you have 200km, 25% will be 100km…. It’s not taking anything about your actual drive into consideration, or measuring whether you are driving up hills or flat planes etc, or whether it’s hot or cold etc.

 

[sptrawler]

I am not sure, but the article is basically third hand information so who knows what is true, all I can say is that the live range estimate is very accurate.
————————-

But, What I know is definitely not accurate is the “fuel gauge” range. It is just basically a count down.

Eg. At 100% charge it says you have 400km, 50% charge it says you have 200km, 25% will be 100km…. It’s not taking anything about your actual drive into consideration, or measuring whether you are driving up hills or flat planes etc, or whether it’s hot or cold etc.

That's interesting, I would have thought they would take into consideration, load/time and constantly change the range estimate.
With Tesla also obviously having a very good range estimate function already, incorporating that into the "fuel gauge" shouldn't be too difficult, with their inhouse expertise.

 

[Value Collector]

That's interesting, I would have thought they would take into consideration, load/time and constantly change the range estimate.
With Tesla also obviously having a very good range estimate function already, incorporating that into the "fuel gauge" shouldn't be too difficult, with their inhouse expertise.

All that stuff is taken into consideration for the live range estimate when you put in your GPS destination.

But, without knowing where you are going to drive they can’t really give you a good estimate, so the fuel gauge range thing just uses your EPA sticker range as the basis, and divides that by the battery level.


———————

For example, let’s say you are half way up a mountain range, the car doesn’t know whether you are going to drive up to the top burning energy or down to the bottom gliding on regen, so it can’t give you a good estimate.

But, as soon as you put your destination into the GPS, it knows your route and can give you an accurate prediction, because it knows the average usage from 1000’s of cars that traveled that route before you, and knows whether your heater is on etc etc.

 

[mullokintyre]

In the USA at least, EV sales may have peaked according to the WSJ.

Sales of all-electric models have remained steady at 100,000 a month for the last six months, despite falling prices as inventories pile up on car lots. Consumers cite cost and charging issues as the two main reasons, per a recent S&P Global Mobility survey. Now that the initial rush to buy an EV is over, it may take even lower prices, improved charging facilities and new products to trigger another wave of buying.

Consumers may be waiting for Tesla’s latest Model 3, in addition to a more convenient EV tax credit in 2024, the Journal adds.
Dealer figures seem to be backing this up.
From CNBC

FORD America have been "surprised" by the slow takeup of the F150 Electric .
Originally, they had planned to ramp up to production of 150,000 units a year.
Their latest announcement has halved that production to 75,000 units a year due to a slowing of demand for the EV version of the most popular vehicle in the USA.
It could be that the F150 drivers don't want an electric version of their fav truck, or maybe are waiting for a cybertruck.
But given that sales have been flat for six months give greater credence to the peak EV theme.
Especially when ICE vehicles are continuing to increase sales.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

​

Problems at the human/machine interface ?

Tesla recalls more than 2 million vehicles across US to fix defective Autopilot system

The recall comes after a two-year investigation by US auto safety regulators into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot system was in use.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

@Value Collector is this recall a back to base, or an over the air update?

Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix Autopilot safety system

More than 2 million vehicles are being recalled to fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Tesla’s automated systems.

www.theage.com.au

The recall covers models Y, S, 3 and X produced between October 5, 2012, and December 7 of this year. The update was to be sent to certain affected vehicles on Tuesday, with the rest getting it later.

 

[Value Collector]

@Value Collector is this recall a back to base, or an over the air update?

Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix Autopilot safety system

More than 2 million vehicles are being recalled to fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Tesla’s automated systems.

www.theage.com.au

The recall covers models Y, S, 3 and X produced between October 5, 2012, and December 7 of this year. The update was to be sent to certain affected vehicles on Tuesday, with the rest getting it later.

Nope, it’s just an over the air software update.

 

[Prepper Pete]

Nope, it’s just an over the air software update.

Its almost like the film on Netflix...."Leave the world behind"....!

 

[SirRumpole]

Nope, it’s just an over the air software update.

Apply electric current through bottom of seat every 30 seconds to make sure driver is awake.

 

[Prepper Pete]

Apply electric current through bottom of seat every 30 seconds to make sure driver is awake.

Ouch, why is my bum so sore

 

[Jeda]

Ouch, why is my bum so sore

 

[Value Collector]

Its almost like the film on Netflix...."Leave the world behind"....!

I haven’t seen that one yet, but some one else just mentioned it to me so might have to check it out.

 

[Value Collector]

Apply electric current through bottom of seat every 30 seconds to make sure driver is awake.

Apparently they realised that a photo of a face taped to the head rest could trick the system into thinking there was a driver that was awake.

So they have created more complex software that can’t be so easily fooled.

 

[SirRumpole]

Apparently they realised that a photo of a face taped to the head rest could trick the system into thinking there was a driver that was awake.

So they have created more complex software that can’t be so easily fooled.

Autodrive is a great piece of software engineering but it's not perfect yet, and those who trust it absolutely are fools and deserve what they get as long as innocent people are not involved.

 

[Value Collector]

Autodrive is a great piece of software engineering but it's not perfect yet, and those who trust it absolutely are fools and deserve what they get as long as innocent people are not involved.

Yeah, it’s been a constant thing, Tesla introduced a feature to ensure your hands are on the wheel, and some one designed a gadget that connects to the steering wheel and vibrates in a way to trick the system, it’s silly.