Electric cars?

[qldfrog]

Yeah, but pretty much everywhere is slowly being filled in with chargers. It’s not a fundamental scientific flaw of EV’s as frog is suggesting. If people are having trouble charging it’s just because the network isn’t complete yet.

I doubt the Network of petrol stations was built out in a day either, it just takes time, it’s not a fundamental flaw that won’t be over come.

So what is the scientific minimum time to recharge a plug in EV at 80%..simple..I assume you can physically lift the cable..aka less that 25kg....
Batteries able to handle Lightspeed charging etc...i am talking science barrier/not existing technology...
And if you find it ok to spend 30minute at a station, consider many see that differently, not mentioning how many parked spaces must you handle if we were to move to an 80% EV fleet.
Either for waiting line or car charging space..
But lucky on you to have the money to burn on this, and the fun of a new toy..some go for 4k smartphones or 1k sneakers.nothing wrong with that if you can afford and decide to.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes I am afraid it needs to be told as everyone taxes are used to favor a technical solution which is actually suitable to only a few , are you not a strong proponent of cheaper housing?
Yet all good to legally prevent ice sales in a near future
So you are ok removing mobility to the unwashed/toothless?
I have nothing against EV, and the day it will make sense $wise, I will get one, recharged on own solar to runaround: shopping, cafe, local trips etc etc.

That's what I do and as I've said it works for me

But I hate when an ideology, not even matched by facts associates EV to a greener better world and governments spend money ..ours as taxpayers..to promote a solution whose only clear end beneficiaries are Mr Xi clique and the rotten mates ..
Moreover, we are fed lies after lies about range, costs, emissions, even future feasibility..no it will not improve significantly
As long as there is no gov involvement and EVs are treated equal to ICEs, with same tax amount raised as when I fill my tank with diesel or E91-98
All good
But asking the government aka the 95% to pay for your recharging stations etc..no thanks..

I have only used recharging stations twice in 13 months of ownership, as I said the wife and I are going to Kalgoorlie in two weeks, we are taking the train. You can't be more efficient than that.
If I need to rent a car will I rent an EV? hell no.

EV is a great technology but it is not green, probably more polluting overall than an equivalent ice, are definitively more expensive per km and in the same way I do not mind people buying monster trucks or Maseratis if they want to, I would not want to see them forced on us or pushed with my taxes.

There are a lot of things that aren't green and there are a lot of greenies who drive ICE cars, live in McMansions with huge A/C units.
The wife and I have an EV, five electric bikes, two electric scooters, an electric lawnmower, edger, chainsaw, whipper snipper, trimmer, all my power tools are battery operated, I'm not a greenie it is just that I have solar on my places and it works for me that's all.
I know I'm not changing the climate, I'm not stupid, the greenies that get out of their ICE car or get off the ICE bus and glue themselves to the road are.
But hey everyone to their own, the Government will do whatever they think will get them into office, when they stuff up the very same thing that got them in, gets them out.
Life goes on, allow for the worst and hope for the best is my motto.
The Government is going to spend mind bending tax payers money on the transition to renewables, can I change that? No. Will it work, well not if every country doesn't follow suit.

Can I mitigate the cost to me? Well you and my son have, by being off grid.
But if you are in suburbia you will have limited options, other than use the electricity for your own consumption as in charging the EV, tools etc.
Life moves on, who knows what it will look like in 20 years, the cassette tape has come and gone, the CD has come and gone, the DVD has just about gone.
Don't get too hung up on today, is my advice.
Will EV's work, who knows? If they don't they don't. but if it works for you, why not?
Same as you and the son going off grid, it wouldn't work for me I'm in suburbia, same as an EV doesn't work for him he is on 100 acres in the country he has a diesel car and a diesel ute.
I'm in suburbia I have an EV and am on grid, that's life, it doesn't make me a greenie and it doesn't make me a bad person, just makes me someone who is trying to smooth out their spending and hassles.

 

[qldfrog]

That's what I do and as I've said it works for me

I have only used recharging stations twice in 13 months of ownership, as I said the wife and I are going to Kalgoorlie in two weeks, we are taking the train. You can't be more efficient than that.
If I need to rent a car will I rent an EV? hell no.

There are a lot of things that aren't green and there are a lot of greenies who drive ICE cars, live in McMansions with huge A/C units.
The wife and I have an EV, five electric bikes, two electric scooters, an electric lawnmower, edger, chainsaw, whipper snipper, trimmer, all my power tools are battery operated, I'm not a greenie it is just that I have solar on my places and it works for me that's all.
I know I'm not changing the climate, I'm not stupid, the greenies that get out of their ICE car or get off the ICE bus and glue themselves to the road are.
But hey everyone to their own, the Government will do whatever they think will get them into office, when they stuff up the very same thing that got them in, gets them out.
Life goes on, allow for the worst and hope for the best is my motto.
The Government is going to spend mind bending tax payers money on the transition to renewables, can I change that? No. Will it work, well not if every country doesn't follow suit.

Can I mitigate the cost to me? Well you and my son have, by being off grid.
But if you are in suburbia you will have limited options, other than use the electricity for your own consumption as in charging the EV, tools etc.
Life moves on, who knows what it will look like in 20 years, the cassette tape has come and gone, the CD has come and gone, the DVD has just about gone.
Don't get too hung up on today, is my advice.
Will EV's work, who knows? If they don't they don't. but if it works for you, why not?
Same as you and the son going off grid, it wouldn't work for me I'm in suburbia, same as an EV doesn't work for him he is on 100 acres in the country he has a diesel car and a diesel ute.
I'm in suburbia I have an EV and am on grid, that's life, it doesn't make me a greenie and it doesn't make me a bad person, just makes me someone who is trying to smooth out their spending and hassles.

No, not a bad person, but EVs are not fitting the needs of everyone, are far less flexible than ice and yes I get a bit hang up on seeing our country run to the ground with the way renewables are promoted implemented on the grid, and EVs pushed at the detriment once again of most Australian.
Look, when the government will make it unsustainable , uneconomical to get and run an ice:. Of course I will swap, and do not cry for me: like most here, we can actually afford these chimeres.
Being off the grid as your son, it just makes economical sense for us (being kind of remote), but it would be stupidity in a suburb if pretending to save the planet, or money.
So this is not an ideological war from me, I just want facts, science and real numbers to prevail discussing EVs, but as well renewable and grid, or vaccination results..and much more.
We are speeding full speed into a wall and I would prefer to avoid that for this country

 

[qldfrog]

I have found the real world driving range of an EV, can vary wildly depending on many factors as Mick says, here is a website of "real" world milage as tested by Inside EV"s which is a pretty good website.
it also shows which cars over estimate the available range and which underestimate the available range.
To convert to km just multiply the miles by 1.609344 as it is a U.S website I assume they are using U.S miles, as opposed to Imperial miles.
With regard the Tesla, the model 3 and model Y's sold in the U.S have a nickel based battery, whereas the Australian one has the Fe based batteries from China, so I would expect them to have less expected range.
But the Teslas do perform well in distance tests, a mate has a model 3 and a Y dual motor LR, I will ask him how it goes for range, I know he has driven the Y to Kal in the last couple of weeks.
I know I drove my Kona on a round trip of 440km the other week, when I left it said I had 470km range, on the way back when I got to Williams it said I had 70km left.
So I stopped and put in $18.50 (30.83kWH) which was the time it took to have a cup of coffee, so I would say that their outcomes are fairly indicative, but like Mick says, A/C, wind, temp, terrain everything affects the range.

The article is well worth a read, for those who are considering buying an EV.

What's The Real World Highway Range Of Today's Electric Cars? We Test To Find Out

We take the most popular electric cars, fully charge them, and then drive them at 70 mph to find out just how far they will go. Which one goes the furthest?

insideevs.com

About EV Range Tests Conducted By InsideEVs​

We want to make it clear our range tests aren't perfect. There are variables simply out of our control like wind, traffic, and weather. However, we do our best to control what we can. We always set the tires to the manufacturer's recommended pressure, crosscheck the speedometer with a GPS for accuracy, charge up to 100 percent and enter the highway either immediately or within a couple of miles. Then we drive at a constant 70 mph and in long loops so we end up basically where we started.

Whenever possible, we repeat the test with a second member of the team on a different course. When we do that, we average the results of the two tests. We also report the temperature and whether we used the heating or cooling during the test, and offer our opinions on how using the climate control system use may have impacted the results.

We realize that a change in temperature as little as 10° F (5.5° C) can have a meaningful effect on an electric car's range. However, these 70 mph range tests are useful because they provide another data point for potential customers who are looking for as much information on driving range as they can get.

EV Range Test Results​

Vehicle	Price	Real Range (Miles)	EPA Range (Miles)	Difference	Efficiency (mi/kWh)
2022 Lucid Air Dream Edition Range	$169,000	500	520	-4.0%	4.30
2022 Mercedes EQS 450+	$102,310	395	350	+13.0%	3.67
2022 BMW iX xDrive50 w/20" Wheels	$83,200	345	324	+6.5%	3.25
2023 Cadillac Lyriq RWD w/20" Wheels	$62,990	330	312	+5.8%	3.15
2021 Tesla Model 3 AWD	$48,990	310	353	-12.2%	4.25
2023 Porsche Taycan RWD 93 kWh Battery (New Software)	$81,150*	305	225	+35.8%	3.66
2021 Tesla Model S Plaid w/21" Arachnid	$134,490	300	348	-12.0%	3.30
2021 Porsche Taycan RWD 93 kWh Battery	$85,470*	293 297	225 225	+30.0% +32.0%	3.49 3.50
2019 Tesla Model 3 AWD	$47,990	290	322	-10.0%	4.25
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E California Route 1 Edition	$50,400	287	305	-6.0%	3.30
2023 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range	$66,295	285	290	-1.7%	3.10
2020 Porsche Taycan 4S 93 kWh	$103,800*	278	203	+36.9%	3.32
2020 Tesla Model Y AWD	$49,990	276	316	-12.7%	3.85
2022 Ford Lightning Lariat Extended Range	$77,474	270	320	-15.6%	2.10
2022 Rivian R1T Large Pack, 20" all-terrain tires	$79,500	254	314**	-19.1%	2.03
2021 Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo 93 kWh Battery	$93,700	252	215	+17.2%	3.10
2021 Porsche Taycan Turbo Cross Turismo 93 kWh Battery	$153,500	246	204	+20.6%	2.92
2022 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD 20" Wheels	$56,400	245	274	-10.6	3.30
2022 BMW i4 M50 w/20" Wheels	$65,900	239	227	+5.3%	2.95
2020 Hyundai Kona EV	$37,190	238	258	-7.8%	3.90
2021 Volkswagen ID.4 First Edition	$43,995	234	250	-6.4%	3.00
2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD SEL w/19" Wheels	$45,900	227	256	-11.3%	3.10
2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E AWD Std Range	$50,300	226	211	+7.1%	3.30
2020 Chevrolet Bolt EV	$36,620	226	259	-12.7%	3.40
2021 Polestar Polestar 2	$59,990	226	233	-3.1%	3.12
2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD Limited w/20" Wheels	$54,500	195	256	-24.0%	2.70
2022 Jaguar I-Pace EV400 w/22" Wheels	$69,900	195	234	-16.7%	2.37
2020 Nissan LEAF SL +	$43,900	190	215	-11.6%	3.40
2022 Ford Lightning Pro Standard Range	$39,974	214	230	-7.0%	2.20
2019 Audi e-tron	$74,800	188	204	-7.9%	2.30
2020 Hyundai Ioniq EV	$33,045	171	170	+0.6%	4.50
2019 BMW i3s BEV	$47,650	141	153	-7.8%	3.60
2020 BMW i3s REx	$51,500	126	126	0.0%	3.50
2020 MINI Cooper SE	$29,990	108	110	-1.8%	3.70
2015 Chevy Spark EV	$25,995	63	82	-23.2%	3.50
2018 smart Electric Drive	$28,750	51	57	-10.5%	3.40

This is a very very interesting and informative table.
Funny how heavily recent Porsche,Merx and BMW underestimate their performances while Ford, Tesla grossly inflate them
Thanks Mr @sptrawler

 

[sptrawler]

No, not a bad person, but EVs are not fitting the needs of everyone, are far less flexible than ice and yes I get a bit hang up on seeing our country run to the ground with the way renewables are promoted implemented on the grid, and EVs pushed at the detriment once again of most Australian.
Look, when the government will make it unsustainable , uneconomical to get and run an ice:. Of course I will swap, and do not cry for me: like most here, we can actually afford these chimeres.
Being off the grid as your son, it just makes economical sense for us (being kind of remote), but it would be stupidity in a suburb if pretending to save the planet, or money.
So this is not an ideological war from me, I just want facts, science and real numbers to prevail discussing EVs, but as well renewable and grid, or vaccination results..and much more.
We are speeding full speed into a wall and I would prefer to avoid that for this country

Best of luck sunshine.
You keep knocking yourself out changing the World, I'm 25 years past that stage.

 

[Value Collector]

So what is the scientific minimum time to recharge a plug in EV at 80%..simple..I assume you can physically lift the cable..aka less that 25kg....
Batteries able to handle Lightspeed charging etc...i am talking science barrier/not existing technology...
And if you find it ok to spend 30minute at a station, consider many see that differently, not mentioning how many parked spaces must you handle if we were to move to an 80% EV fleet.
Either for waiting line or car charging space..
But lucky on you to have the money to burn on this, and the fun of a new toy..some go for 4k smartphones or 1k sneakers.nothing wrong with that if you can afford and decide to.

it takes me about 15 seconds to charge my EV, I plug it in and walk away, that’s quicker than than the 10 mins you can waste filling your petrol tank and messing around at the station.

10 mins a week at a petrol station is 9 hours a year that petrol car owners have to waste, let’s say on a road trip I have to spend an extra 10 mins charging does that really matter? I save 9 hours for the rest of the year by home charging, and that extra 10 minutes it takes to charge I will probably be eating a kebab or looking in the cake cabinet of the cafe, not breathing in petrol fumes.

You are barking up the wrong tree if you think EV’s waste your time, they save time, less time filling up and less days at the garage being serviced.

The vast majority of people will home charge, so we will never need as many charging stations as we do petrol stations.

 

[Smurf1976]

Life moves on, who knows what it will look like in 20 years, the cassette tape has come and gone, the CD has come and gone, the DVD has just about gone.

Emphasis mine.

I see an interesting point about technology in general here and suspect it may have some relevance to cars in due course.

Go back to the 1980's and pretty much everyone wanted the best sound they could get, the problem being it was out of reach financially. And so in practice anyone who wasn't seriously rich ended up having to compromise on the amplifier and speakers, the only good bit they had were the actual CD's.

Today electronics are so much cheaper so rationally one would expect we'd all have outstandingly good audio systems. In truth it's the opposite, the mass market having gone to an inferior sound source that's typically played via equipment that's not even remotely close to proper Hi-Fi, heck it's not even stereo in some cases. Now add onto that the mastering of modern recordings incredibly compresses the dynamic range and we've really gone backwards in a big way.

Now I ponder whether we'll see similar trends with cars going forward?

Does an EV actually need to replicate the functionality of an ICE vehicle in every way?

Or will we see a functionality downgrade and the idea of long car trips ceases to be a thing for all but a niche minority akin to those who still seek high quality audio?

Will anyone even want to tow a caravan 30 years from now? Or is that another concept on borrowed time?

Etc.

 

[sptrawler]

Nailed it @Smurf1976 , that is my thought exactly, the caravan is toast IMO.
So are a lot of nostalgic things from 30 years ago, I have done the nullarbor 16 times, mainly because years ago with 4 kids it was too expensive to fly, so we drove on holidays.
The 4 kids and grand kids never have and I'm sure never will drive across, it is cheaper, easier, faster and more comfortable to fly them across also not many people have four kids any more.
Times are changing, big time IMO.

 

[qldfrog]

Nailed it @Smurf1976 , that is my thought exactly, the caravan is toast IMO.
So are a lot of nostalgic things from 30 years ago, I have done the nullarbor 16 times, mainly because years ago with 4 kids it was too expensive to fly, so we drove on holidays.
The 4 kids and grand kids never have and I'm sure never will drive across, it is cheaper, easier, faster and more comfortable to fly them across also not many people have four kids any more.
Times are changing, big time IMO.

That is why I am fighting:
Should I accept that we are to give our kids less than was given to us;
Worse,less and and ultimately suppressed individual transport: WEF 15 min city, unaffordable EVs leading to shared cars, as for flying instead of driving:
The WEF agenda is to remove flying option from the commoners as per EU directives and flights pricing .
Obviously, the elites will carry on but wo the hords/herds of the toothless creating airport congestion and highway stuffups
I suspect battery EVs are also de facto part of this social engineering
Otherwise, other options like fuel cells with electric motors or quick swap batteries/H2 stations would be promoted.
Not to forget using synfuels or ammonia in ice existing and new fleets wo changing anything in our society, just replacing oil based petrol pump with the product of CO2 emission free solar and wind farm..where intermittent production would not even be an issue...
If this CO2 warming the planet fairytale was the key reason for EVs, that would be the path.
which it is not obviously...

 

[BarryTheBigBadTrader]

Should I accept that we are to give our kids less than was given to us;
Worse,less and and ultimately suppressed individual transport: WEF 15 min city, unaffordable EVs leading to shared cars, as for flying instead of driving:

I wouldn't conflate what is happening with being 'worse' .... it is just what 'is'. I would think your perception/nostalgia of your trips while young is more inline with the experience of wonder than anything else. One can get that from any source, particularly while young as everything is naturally new and larger than oneself.

The main difference between now and then is sensory overstimulation and no group social experience. (The individual gets what they want and we're all different).

You want nostalgia, communism is the way of the future One EV for all...

 

[Value Collector]

I wouldn't conflate what is happening with being 'worse' .... it is just what 'is'. I would think your perception/nostalgia of your trips while young is more inline with the experience of wonder than anything else. One can get that from any source, particularly while young as everything is naturally new and larger than oneself.

The main difference between now and then is sensory overstimulation and no group social experience. (The individual gets what they want and we're all different).

You want nostalgia, communism is the way of the future One EV for all...

Agreed, Boomers might feel nostalgic about such things as going to the record store to buy a record or waiting around all morning to hear your song on Radio or TV.

But, music streaming is infinitely better.

As I said I have been driving the Sydney Brisbane route for 23 years, Now I get on the freeway in the Tesla and the car drives its self for 3 hours to the first charging stop, while I can stream literally any song in the world, or listen to any radio station in the world.

Sure, I guess some people have fond memories of Sweating in cars with no Air-con, listening to the AM radio, breathing in Leaded petrol fumes, but I don’t miss that.

 

[sptrawler]

Agreed, Boomers might feel nostalgic about such things as going to the record store to buy a record or waiting around all morning to hear your song on Radio or TV.

But, music streaming is infinitely better.

As I said I have been driving the Sydney Brisbane route for 23 years, Now I get on the freeway in the Tesla and the car drives its self for 3 hours to the first charging stop, while I can stream literally any song in the world, or listen to any radio station in the world.

Sure, I guess some people have fond memories of Sweating in cars with no Air-con, listening to the AM radio, breathing in Leaded petrol fumes, but I don’t miss that.

Yes dragging 4 kids across Australia wasn't what I called fun, but it was the holiday we could afford.
Would I do it now, hell no I would fly them and rent a car in Brisbane, then drive down to the fun parks, or drive up to Cairns and fly home from there.
There wasn't a lot of fun in driving 20+ thousand km and 5 days each way, once maybe just for the experience, after that it became a real chore.
I have done Tasmania on a motor bike, from Perth.
The last time we went there, we flew to Hobart and rented a car for 4 weeks it was so much nicer.

 

[sptrawler]

Here is an EV for you @qldfrog , it will be perfect for on the farm and running into town.

Ex-HSV designer reveals Callum Skye electric off-roader

Scottish designer Ian Callum and his team have developed their first complete vehicle, an electric off-roader, set to go on sale in 2024.

www.drive.com.au

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The average punter, the voter, that moronic muppet who surrounds us, the whining follower of the mob, the feckless imbecile of the middle of the road, that unimaginative dupe who watches free to air TV, that reader of the Daily Telegraph in print, will not buy an EV.

Lest anyone think that I am being elitist, I can understand why he or she or it or they will not do so. I am acquainted with their mindset. It is because of fear. The average guy does not do bravery well. Besides they are relatively poor and would not take a chance. The chance being that a large part of their savings will be spent on an EV or paying off the loan of such. The self employed may do so as a means of tax but the average Joe or Josette with a mortgage and one kid with one of the the A's, will not be able to afford it. His wife or her toyboy may want one, but an ICE Polo will do for most of that ilk in the cities.

The loss of all their savings in one rash purchase of a vehicle at $10-15K over their comfort zone will scare them back to ICE. The politicians will not assist. The loss will come soon enough. When they try to sell their now second hand EV. Their fear will be realised.

They are worthless.

gg

 

[qldfrog]

Here is an EV for you @qldfrog , it will be perfect for on the farm and running into town.

Ex-HSV designer reveals Callum Skye electric off-roader

Scottish designer Ian Callum and his team have developed their first complete vehicle, an electric off-roader, set to go on sale in 2024.

www.drive.com.au

Actually, at long last, EV farm buggies are coming on the market: these make full sense, usually idle by night, limited required range , not used 24/7 and easily loaded on the farm panels .
My only questions are water resistance when crossing creeks and puddles, and overall weight.. critical not to damage paddocks or getting bogged

 

[Value Collector]

The average punter, the voter, that moronic muppet who surrounds us, the whining follower of the mob, the feckless imbecile of the middle of the road, that unimaginative dupe who watches free to air TV, that reader of the Daily Telegraph in print, will not buy an EV.

Lest anyone think that I am being elitist, I can understand why he or she or it or they will not do so. I am acquainted with their mindset. It is because of fear. The average guy does not do bravery well. Besides they are relatively poor and would not take a chance. The chance being that a large part of their savings will be spent on an EV or paying off the loan of such. The self employed may do so as a means of tax but the average Joe or Josette with a mortgage and one kid with one of the the A's, will not be able to afford it. His wife or her toyboy may want one, but an ICE Polo will do for most of that ilk in the cities.

The loss of all their savings in one rash purchase of a vehicle at $10-15K over their comfort zone will scare them back to ICE. The politicians will not assist. The loss will come soon enough. When they try to sell their now second hand EV. Their fear will be realised.

They are worthless.

gg

I would agree to an extent.

Except my Dad, who was a life long tight ass, who fears change, resisted solar panels and even resisted the Internet and iPhones, who even still to this day thinks Air-conditioning is a scam, and watches free to air TV, and would probably get on well with Frog.

Now drives a Tesla, has solar panels and even a Tesla battery.

Sometimes horses do drink if you lead them to water .

 

[Value Collector]

these make full sense, usually idle by night, limited required range , not used 24/7

That sounds like 99% of peoples cars,

My only questions are water resistance when crossing creeks and puddles, and overall weight.. critical not to damage paddocks or getting bogged

Ev’s can handle water pretty well

 

[Smurf1976]

Agreed, Boomers might feel nostalgic about such things as going to the record store to buy a record or waiting around all morning to hear your song on Radio or TV.

But, music streaming is infinitely better.

Sticking with this analogy because it has some relevance.

Music streaming has the advantage of convenience just as flying from Perth to Brisbane then renting a car has the advantage of convenience.

But......

If the music streaming service decides you're not going to listen to that music anymore well that's it, gone.

Perhaps because they took offense to the lyrics. Perhaps it's because someone made an allegation about one of the band members. Perhaps it's because back in 1985 the drummer expressed an opinion that's seen as unacceptable today. Perhaps it's because the lyrics have multiple possible interpretations one of which someone took offense to. Perhaps it's because of a copyright issue. Perhaps the service just decided they don't want that artist or even an entire genre anymore. Point is someone else can remove your access to that music just like that and you've got zero control over it.

Physical music media doesn't have that problem. Short of it being destroyed, nobody can stop the owner listening to it and it'll last their lifetime.

Now with transport if you've ever lived somewhere where you're actually dependent on airlines then you've always got that thought in the back of your mind. In the Australian context Tasmania's the obvious example - if you can't fly to Melbourne then your only other option's the ferry. Failing that, you're not going.

Living in Adelaide, should I really need to get to Melbourne then worst case I can drive there in 8 hours. I'm not at the mercy of an airline should they decide to not run flights there, or charge a fortune for them, for whatever reason. Driving might be less convenient but it's far less dependent on anyone else.

I can fully understand the concern about that option being removed or made impractical. It leaves the individual at the mercy of airlines which are an industry that's partly a duopoly, partly an actual monopoly and with a less than stellar service record. For mainland Australia at least, cars with the ability to travel long distances provide a fix for that. An inconvenient fix, but a fix nonetheless.

 

[Value Collector]

Sticking with this analogy because it has some relevance.

Music streaming has the advantage of convenience just as flying from Perth to Brisbane then renting a car has the advantage of convenience.

But......

If the music streaming service decides you're not going to listen to that music anymore well that's it, gone.

Perhaps because they took offense to the lyrics. Perhaps it's because someone made an allegation about one of the band members. Perhaps it's because back in 1985 the drummer expressed an opinion that's seen as unacceptable today. Perhaps it's because the lyrics have multiple possible interpretations one of which someone took offense to. Perhaps it's because of a copyright issue. Perhaps the service just decided they don't want that artist or even an entire genre anymore. Point is someone else can remove your access to that music just like that and you've got zero control over it.

Physical music media doesn't have that problem. Short of it being destroyed, nobody can stop the owner listening to it and it'll last their lifetime.

Now with transport if you've ever lived somewhere where you're actually dependent on airlines then you've always got that thought in the back of your mind. In the Australian context Tasmania's the obvious example - if you can't fly to Melbourne then your only other option's the ferry. Failing that, you're not going.

Living in Adelaide, should I really need to get to Melbourne then worst case I can drive there in 8 hours. I'm not at the mercy of an airline should they decide to not run flights there, or charge a fortune for them, for whatever reason. Driving might be less convenient but it's far less dependent on anyone else.

I can fully understand the concern about that option being removed or made impractical. It leaves the individual at the mercy of airlines which are an industry that's partly a duopoly, partly an actual monopoly and with a less than stellar service record. For mainland Australia at least, cars with the ability to travel long distances provide a fix for that. An inconvenient fix, but a fix nonetheless.

Has that ever happened so far? Either way you would just switch streaming services.

Also, nothing dies on the internet, I am sure what ever content you are looking for you you could find it some where to down load.

I think having the entire world of music at my finger tips every time I sit in my car or put my head phones on definitely is better than relying on the radio or my own cds.

 

[Smurf1976]

Has that ever happened so far? Either way you would just switch streaming services.

Between movies and music there’s plenty of content that doesn’t exist on any streaming service.

To the more relevant point of airlines and other public transport, it’s not hard to find someone who’s been left stranded. Only last week there were media reports of major delays Adelaide to Perth such that people missed the concert they were travelling to attend. Delays as in days not hours.

On a lesser scale only two weeks ago I boarded a bus that was fully 80 minutes late departing the CBD. In truth I suspect the original service didn’t run at all, and the one I used was actually the next bus running 20 minutes late. Thankfully it wasn’t raining and I wasn’t in a hurry.

Private vehicles, physical media, cash and storing data on your own hard drive are all examples of things which do have value in terms of getting around the unreliability of others. There’s a reason many would rather drive despite having the option not to.

Hence I can fully understand the concerns someone would have if they can’t drive from A to B due to range, charging facilities etc being a constraint. They might not do it regularly but as with any insurance, it’s too late once you know you need it.