Electric cars?

[rederob]

One thing i know for sure is that environment is incredibly hard in a mine, just with the dust vibrations i would not even think about putting an ev around
Diesel are simpler basic engines they can swallow dust, be submerged running, shaken..
There is no realistic way an ev with its myriads of batteries connection will not fall in a heap there
It is actually the ultimate test for the ev ute, i doubt i will see this in my lifetime
And not considering sending back the ev car 2000km to brisbane or perth for major repairs
Last place on earth to gave an ev

I would not wish an early death on you, but your comments are so often ill informed.
In fact Queensland unveils a locally produced EV purpose built for the mining industry in a few weeks with significant advantages over FF counterparts.
The mining industry as a whole is moving to EVs faster than the broader transport industry because they offer significant efficiency and cost savings.
You can head off to Toronto next month and play catch up if you are free to learn more instead of making unfounded claims.

 

[moXJO]

View attachment 94629

Ev’s Would actually be much better suited to out back areas.

Picture a fuel station in the middle of the out back, it relies on tanker trucks constantly bringing fuel from refineries that are 100’s or even 1000’s or kilometers away, and the refinery relies on tanker ships bringing crude from 1000’s of kilometers away.

Then picture across the road a recharging station with a few hundred solar panels sitting in a paddock, producing all the electricity needed to recharge cars and trucks locally, no need for a massive supply chain of trucks and ships.

——————-

I mean even constructing charging stations across the nullabor that look like this would be a lot more efficient than the current system of ships, refineries and tanker trucks.

Perhaps in a mining setting but not for the people who routinely need to drive long distances. You need long range fuel tanks. It can be a long way from point a to b. And the wet season means you are crossing deep creeks. Red dirt gets through everything, I'm unsure if there is any affect on ev component's. If you run out of petrol its an easy fix. If you run out of battery power the solution isn't as easy.
You would have to dot charging stations everywhere.
At this stage I don't see it being practical till range and other issues are addressed.

 

[moXJO]

I would not wish an early death on you, but your comments are so often ill informed.
In fact Queensland unveils a locally produced EV purpose built for the mining industry in a few weeks with significant advantages over FF counterparts.
The mining industry as a whole is moving to EVs faster than the broader transport industry because they offer significant efficiency and cost savings.
You can head off to Toronto next month and play catch up if you are free to learn more instead of making unfounded claims.

No doubt it will change one day. But the tech is still talked up beyond its current capabilities.

 

[Humid]

What I'm failing to understand here is why electric power would be a problem?

Are there really people who just drive around mines all day, doing hundreds of km per shift, and never really get out of the ute or even stop moving?

Maybe someone on security patrol or something I could understand but not hundreds surely?

Wouldn't these vehicles be parked outside a workshop, mill or whatever a lot of the time in practice? If so then then if the mine has power from the grid or pipeline gas then the logistics of EV's leave diesel for dead.

You would seriously struggle to find a power point that worked

 

[Smurf1976]

You would seriously struggle to find a power point that worked

Given that mines definitely have electricity, they’re reasonably large users of it either from the grid or generated on site, I see a business opportunity installing power outlets, of whatever sort, in suitable locations.

FWIW power stations also tend to be a bit scarce when it comes to normal power points. No reason to not install some of course, just hasn’t been a reason to historically.

Notable exception of the public BBQ area outside one particular power station that sees regular use by people with caravans running an extension lead to power all manner of things - I’ve seen a clothes dryer sitting outside a van (running) more than once.

Mines with their existing HV infrastructure would be a perfect candidate for fast charging of high usage vehicles whilst anything which sits mostly outside an office or workshop could be trickle charged.

Only ones where it’s going to be a real problem are those which really are being driven 24 hours a day - driving a ute being the primary function of that persons job. There’d be a limited number of those surely. Apart from maybe security patrols I’m struggling to see why mines would employ anyone to just drive around their whole shift.

 

[moXJO]

Given that mines definitely have electricity, they’re reasonably large users of it either from the grid or generated on site, I see a business opportunity installing power outlets, of whatever sort, in suitable locations.

Mines with their existing HV infrastructure would be a perfect candidate for fast charging of high usage vehicles whilst anything which sits mostly outside an office or workshop could be trickle charged.

Suppose you could get extra utes and leave some by the charges so its an easy swap while your vehicle charges.

 

[rederob]

No doubt it will change one day. But the tech is still talked up beyond its current capabilities.

Really?
Electric engines have been around for a very, very long time!
Mining equipment companies have installed electric drive trains in heavy-haul ore mining operations and are increasingly moving into BEV underground equipment.
I have no idea what you are talking about, so help us out.

 

[moXJO]

Really?
Electric engines have been around for a very, very long time!
Mining equipment companies have installed electric drive trains in heavy-haul ore mining operations and are increasingly moving into BEV underground equipment.
I have no idea what you are talking about, so help us out.

I'm talking utes. My argument is the tech is still a work in progress. Its being oversold as to the capabilities or practicalities. I have no doubt that it will in time overcome said problems.

Yes electric motors broke a land speed record in 1898 from memory so yes they have been around.

On electric equipment.
Ive worked with some older electric equipment on site and once it goes flat you are up the creek. Production stops dead. If its fuel you just fill the tank.

I'm betting mining companies are not moving into it that fast just yet. But between robotics and EVs I'm sure they can't wait to automate and run electric purely for cost minimization.

 

[rederob]

I'm talking utes. My argument is the tech is still a work in progress. Its being oversold as to the capabilities or practicalities. I have no doubt that it will in time overcome said problems.

Again, what are you talking about?

I'm betting mining companies are not moving into it that fast just yet.

Rather than bet, just read what is happening.
Open cut projects are increasingly electrifying and UG mining is moving as fast as it can into BEVs for very obvious reasons.

 

[moXJO]

Again, what are you talking about?
Rather than bet, just read what is happening.
Open cut projects are increasingly electrifying and UG mining is moving as fast as it can into BEVs for very obvious reasons.

The reality of the situation is in my corner. Oversized and weight, battery tech still needs development.

Simplified: Tech/price ain't there yet for wide scale adoption.

 

[Smurf1976]

A complicating factor in the economics in mining would be the affect on other aspects of the mine.

Eg need less ventilation if you're not running diesels underground. So less capital and operational expenditure on that aspect of the mine itself, separate to any saving on fuel costs.

If the mine's in the middle of nowhere but has access to either grid electricity or gas supplied via a pipeline well then electricity (including electricity generated on site from gas) is an energy source that just works, there's no need to be trucking or railing it in on a constant basis.

Just within Australia, well in WA there's plenty of mines not near anywhere but they do have a gas pipeline or transmission line close by and typically one or the other is connected to the mine. Either electricity from the grid or generate their own from gas. Either way there's no fuel to bring to the site since it just turns up via the wires or pipe.

Less servicing so fewer staff needed to do that and smaller workshop facilities.

Etc so it's not just the fuel cost, there's other factors as well.

 

[moXJO]

A complicating factor in the economics in mining would be the affect on other aspects of the mine.

Eg need less ventilation if you're not running diesels underground. So less capital and operational expenditure on that aspect of the mine itself, separate to any saving on fuel costs.

If the mine's in the middle of nowhere but has access to either grid electricity or gas supplied via a pipeline well then electricity (including electricity generated on site from gas) is an energy source that just works, there's no need to be trucking or railing it in on a constant basis.

Just within Australia, well in WA there's plenty of mines not near anywhere but they do have a gas pipeline or transmission line close by and typically one or the other is connected to the mine. Either electricity from the grid or generate their own from gas. Either way there's no fuel to bring to the site since it just turns up via the wires or pipe.

Less servicing so fewer staff needed to do that and smaller workshop facilities.

Etc so it's not just the fuel cost, there's other factors as well.

Noise reduction as well as ventilation. No more diesel fumes underground. Apparently vibration reduction is another. I'm sold on evs and where they want it to go. But its still an evolution, not revolution.

 

[rederob]

The reality of the situation is in my corner. Oversized and weight, battery tech still needs development.
Simplified: Tech/price ain't there yet for wide scale adoption.

The reality is that there are EV options for mines and they are being taken up at every opportunity.
Your claims continue to be, as usual, baseless.

 

[moXJO]

The reality is that there are EV options for mines and they are being taken up at every opportunity.
Your claims continue to be, as usual, baseless.

Yeah its small scale still.

 

[moXJO]

The reality is that there are EV options

That was still in development in wollongong uni I thought.
And to further its a trial not production.

BHP plans to share the data it collects from the trial across the company, to help accelerate the broader deployment of electric light vehicles.

That was the original argument. The tech is still developing.

 

[Macquack]

That was still in development in wollongong uni I thought.
And to further its a trial not production.

BHP plans to share the data it collects from the trial across the company, to help accelerate the broader deployment of electric light vehicles.

That was the original argument. The tech is still developing.

Technology is always developing.

Take my roughly one year old ford ranger that had at the time the top of the range engine being a 3.2 litre turbo diesel coupled to a 6 speed auto transmission. The new models top of the range power plant is a 2 litre bi-turbo coupled to a 10 speed trans. Point being that the nature of technology and the unavoidable lag time to market means the consumer is always buying obsolete products.

 

[rederob]

That was still in development in wollongong uni I thought.
And to further its a trial not production.

BHP plans to share the data it collects from the trial across the company, to help accelerate the broader deployment of electric light vehicles.

That was the original argument. The tech is still developing.

No, the technology is well and truly in place, and BHP's trials will merely improve the product's performance.
You might be confusing production issues and with technology.
The mining industry is so confident in EV advances that it is planning mines on EV products still being developed. The reason it's doing this is because the technology is well understood.

 

[moXJO]

No, the technology is well and truly in place, and BH's trials will merely improve the product's performance.
You might be confusing production issues with technology.
The mining industry is so confident in EV advances that it is planning mines on EV products still being developed. The reason it's doing this is because the technology is well understood.

There is one of these evs at Olympic dam..... One.
And its a conversion that took 3 weeks. I haven't seen any stats for the vehicle.

The tech is there but there are issues around the weight, batteries, if 4x4 then depth of water, before we even get into large scale production issues.
And that then revolves around rare metals supply if production were to ramp up.

Cobalt went to what last year $100,000 a ton? And makes you wonder how much was being dug out of the ground by the 35000 kids in congo mines. Chinese have a monopoly on the rare metals right now and most of it was from raping the environment. Then theres things like seabed mining.

Mining 'seafloor massive (polymetallic) sulfides around hydrothermal vents, cobalt-rich crusts (CRCs) on the flanks of seamounts or fields of manganese (polymetallic) nodules on the abyssal plains'.
I'm sure tesla and others were looking at ditching cobalt due to the source. Recycling phones or something.

Now my argument was the tech ain't there yet and production is still very iffy. I still think we have a bit to go yet. There are a lot of issues to deal with. Not just the vehicle and production.

I think evs are going to be the future. But about 10 years before we see anything meaningful or widely adopted.

I think evs will be superior in time. But you cannot realistically compare a diesel 4x4 to an ev at this time.

 

[rederob]

There is one of these evs at Olympic dam..... One.
And its a conversion that took 3 weeks. I haven't seen any stats for the vehicle.

The tech is there but there are issues around the weight, batteries, if 4x4 then depth of water, before we even get into large scale production issues.
And that then revolves around rare metals supply if production were to ramp up.

Cobalt went to what last year $100,000 a ton? And makes you wonder how much was being dug out of the ground by the 35000 kids in congo mines. Chinese have a monopoly on the rare metals right now and most of it was from raping the environment. Then theres things like seabed mining.

Mining 'seafloor massive (polymetallic) sulfides around hydrothermal vents, cobalt-rich crusts (CRCs) on the flanks of seamounts or fields of manganese (polymetallic) nodules on the abyssal plains'.
I'm sure tesla and others were looking at ditching cobalt due to the source. Recycling phones or something.

Now my argument was the tech ain't there yet and production is still very iffy. I still think we have a bit to go yet. There are a lot of issues to deal with. Not just the vehicle and production.

I think evs are going to be the future. But about 10 years before we see anything meaningful or widely adopted.

I think evs will be superior in time. But you cannot realistically compare a diesel 4x4 to an ev at this time.

What a load of nonsense!
You now start inventing non existent issues to support baseless claims.
EV's are superior TODAY.
It's why Tesla is one of the world's most valuable car makers.

 

[moXJO]

What a load of nonsense!
You now start inventing non existent issues to support baseless claims.
EV's are superior TODAY.
It's why Tesla is one of the world's most valuable car makers.

One ev at Olympic dam....

Tesla, I wouldn't be ramping that company.

Non existent claims, you post ev sales brochures and a load of twaddle. Evs are not superior today. You would have to be delusional to think they were.