Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
Jump to new
Sdajii said:
The guy in this video is a paid China shill, routinely posting blatantly dishonest Chinese propaganda etc.

Those cars are all EVs. Those "filler caps" are the cover for the electrical socket!
Click to expand...

You could be correct but without any proof your comment can only be taken with a pinch of salt.

Can you give me a link to check out your info?

​
So take the YouTuber's allegations with a pinch of salt. They reportedly belong to a failed car-sharing service called Microcity, which had thousands of Kandi 11 models, as documented by the Chinese state-owned newspaper People's Daily.​
​
Multiple car-rental businesses failed during the same period in China, which could explain the existence of these car cemeteries.​
​
Also, note that some of the drone footage is over two years old, while some local reports of cars lying abandoned are from 2019. It's unclear what the current state of the EV graveyard is, and if any action was ever taken to bring these vehicles back to life.​
 
Value Collector said:
If I had to guess, I thin the Tesla NAS plug with. E one the default plug in the Canada, USA and Mexico and possibly the rest of America.

While the CCS2 becomes the standard in the rest of the world.
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DIN - Deutsche Industrie Normal
SI - Systeme Internationale

... and then you've got the yanks
 
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
JohnDe said:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Click to expand...

Sorry, this was meant for another thread.
 
How's everyone's investment portfolio looking?

EV sales to account for one-third of US passenger car sales by 2026, says BNEF
BloombergNEF’s Electric Vehicle Outlook 2023 forecasts an impressive trajectory of EV sales in the United States, but cautions that faster progress is needed in order to reach net-zero road transport emissions by 2050.

GlobalEVSales.jpg

The transportation sector is the leading source of carbon emissions in the United States, according to the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), but electrifying vehicles across various categories will significantly contribute to decarbonization efforts.

Electric vehicle sales at the global level are expected to rise from 10.5 million in 2022 to almost 27 million in 2026, BloombergNEF says in a new report. It notes that the EV share of global new passenger vehicle sales will grow from 14% in 2022 to 30% in 2026. Shares in some markets are much higher, with the report estimating that EVs will reach more than half the sales in China and 42% in Europe.

In the United States, electric vehicles will make up nearly 28% of passenger vehicle sales by 2026, up from 7.6% in 2022, due to incentives offered by the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA). This projection is about 20% off from the Biden administration’s goal for electric vehicles to make up 50% of all vehicles sold in the United states by 2030, but perhaps the goal will be met with four years of additional growth.

The IRA provides incentives for buyers of new and used EVs that are made in North America. While there previously was a limit of 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer that could receive the incentive, the cap was lifted with the IRA. Also in 2023, new auto pricing and buyer income caps apply; however, if a taxpayer does not qualify, they may transfer the credit to the dealer, who can then offer a rebate to the customer.

According to SAFE, a group dedicated to accelerating the deployment of sustainable transportation and energy solutions of the United States and its sister organization, the Electrification Coalition, EVs must also meet critical mineral and battery component requirements to qualify for the maximum credit available. The IRA also stipulates that battery minerals and components come from North America or from countries with which the United States has free trade agreements.

The US government is also helping to meet its own goals by increasing procurement of electric vehicles for the federal fleet. According to a White House report, government agencies in this fiscal year have acquired five times as many EVs as last year, and are on track to meet the goal for 100% of new light-duty federal vehicles to be zero emission by 2027.

BloombergNEF notes that electrification is spreading to all types of vehicles, with light commercial EV sales expected to rise sharply. Municipal bus fleets are increasingly electric and are expected to reach 36% of sales by 2026.

While the trajectory of EV sales is impressive, BloombergNEF cautions that faster progress is needed in order to reach net-zero road transport emissions by 2050. The IRA has gone a long way to promote the adoption of electric cars in the United States, but heavy trucks are still lagging behind in the trajectory and should be a priority focus, according to the report authors.

Other challenges inherent in an EV buildout remain, including the need for a strong network of charging stations. The Biden administration set a goal of establishing a national network of 500,000 EV chargers. While ambitious, a recent report from Wood Mackenzie forecasts that 18 million chargers will be installed across the United States by 2027.
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Some EVs won't be coming here but might sell like hot cakes amongst those with "range anxiety.
Here's one's stats:
1688350276952.png
And it looks ok as well:
1688350326569.png
What's really interesting about the Aito is that its pure battery range would suit 99% of the non-commercial driving population for 48 weeks a year, while its hybrid mode gets a traveller holidaying from Sydney to Melbourne without needing to stop. It's priced at AU$58k in China but would never land here at anywhere near that price. Nevertheless, it shows that NEVs more than fill the needs of most drivers, and goes a long way to explaining why ICEV manufacture in China is dying a rapid death.
 
JohnDe said:
You could be correct but without any proof your comment can only be taken with a pinch of salt.

Can you give me a link to check out your info?

​
So take the YouTuber's allegations with a pinch of salt. They reportedly belong to a failed car-sharing service called Microcity, which had thousands of Kandi 11 models, as documented by the Chinese state-owned newspaper People's Daily.​
​
Multiple car-rental businesses failed during the same period in China, which could explain the existence of these car cemeteries.​
​
Also, note that some of the drone footage is over two years old, while some local reports of cars lying abandoned are from 2019. It's unclear what the current state of the EV graveyard is, and if any action was ever taken to bring these vehicles back to life.​
Click to expand...

Correct about what? The guy being a shill? He posts heaps of Chinese propaganda, often beyond blatantly false.

Correct about the cars? That model of car has a petrol and electric version and they use the same external cap. The shill is pretending to be an EV expert (beyond laughable) and doesn't even know that, or maybe he does know it and is just lying as usual.

If nothing else, just remember that if those vehicles were not EVs they would have exhaust pipes. They don't. If you know nothing else that should clue you in.

If you *really* want I can find links relevant to that shill video of yours, but I assure you those vehicles are EVs and that shill is blatantly dishonest and paid by the CCP.
 
Sdajii said:
The guy in this video is a paid China shill, routinely posting blatantly dishonest Chinese propaganda etc.

Those cars are all EVs. Those "filler caps" are the cover for the electrical socket!
Click to expand...
Sam Evans gets no funding from any car company so to say he's a shill is dishonest.

Yes, there are some car "graveyards" in China. There is also a massive inventory, some 3.4 million cars at February this year, so the few thousand seen in 4 year old videos does not really seem newsworthy.
Additionally, EVs can attract manufacturing incentives as provinces compete to get manufacturers to set up. However the incentive would never cover the cost of manufacture, so any company churning out EVs to profit from putting them in a graveyard would find the opposite to be true in no time at all.

WRT to Chinese car manufacturing data, it's reasonably accurate as legacy automakers would otherwise be complaining about it, and Musk has never queried it for his plant's Shanghai output. Anyone reading the myriad of copied links about the EV graveyard would also read the discredited information about Chinese EV sales. Here's where the situation stood a few months ago, where EV sales were over 25% of total sales, and annual sales were increasing almost 55% since 2017:
1688363888151.png
New sales of ICEVs in China will decline significantly from now on as tighter restrictions on emissions have been introduced.
 
Victoria cutting out the E.V rebate caused a big rush of buyers in June apparently.
www.drive.com.au

Victorians rushed to claim electric-car subsidies in final days

As Victoria's $3000 electric-car subsidy program came to a close, thousands of buyers rushed in with applications.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au

Demand for Victoria's electric-vehicle rebate has jumped significantly in the final month of the program, new data obtained by Drive reveals.
As reported in early June 2023, the Victorian Government quietly axed its $3000 subsidy for electric cars, claiming a lower-than-expected take-up rate – despite the new-car industry reporting electric vehicles sales were up almost 111 per cent to the end of May compared with the same point in 2022.
Figures provided by the Victorian Department of Energy, Environment and Climate Action show motorists rushed to claim the subsidy, with a total of 2037 applications approved last month – ahead of its expiration at 6:00pm on 30 June 2023.

It's understood more than 800 applications were made in the final ten days, based on data obtained by AAP.
For the first five months of 2023, Australians purchased 12,387 electric cars – equating to approximately 7 per cent of all new-car sales – compared to 5873 electric vehicles sold during the same period of 2022.
Victoria is now one of the few regions not to offer any kind of incentive to purchase an electric vehicle, with the exception of a $100 discount on annual car registration.

Victoria also lays claim to being the only government to impose a road-user tax on electric-car owners at this point, charging 2.8 cents for each kilometre driven – an 8 per cent jump over the previous year's rate, coming into effect on 1 July 2023.
The state's controversial road-user tax – designed to recoup lost revenue from the fuel excise – is currently before the High Court in a constitutional challenge being supported by the Federal Government.

As Victoria's electric-car rebate came to an end on 30 June, the Queensland Government doubled its subsidy for electric vehicles to $6000 from 1 July – the same day Tesla cut prices across its model range.
The move allowed the entry-level Tesla Model Y RWD to come in under the Queensland Government's $68,000 threshold, and adding up to almost $10,000 in discounts for buyers.
 
An interesting article on why Australia probably wont adopt Tesla's North American E.V plug configuration.

www.solarquotes.com.au

Why Tesla's NACS Connector Won't Be Adopted In Australia

As Tesla's NACS EV charging connector becomes a formal industry standard in the US, here's why Australian EVs won't adopt it anytime soon.
www.solarquotes.com.au www.solarquotes.com.au

Why Australia Is Unlikely To Adopt NACS​

It will be hard for Australia to move to Tesla’s connector for one reason: NACS cannot support 3-phase AC charging. NACS only has two pins for power delivery, whereas 3-phase charging requires four pins (3 lives and one neutral).

In Australia, we have adopted a standard called Type2/CCS2, which limits single-phase AC chargers to just over 7 kW. To charge your car faster with an AC charger in Australia, you need 3 phases allowing up to 22kW of charging speed.

In theory, NACS can deliver 22 kW on one phase, because it is rated to 277V AC and 80A. Power is voltage x current, and 277 x 80 = 22.16 kW. But to get the full 22kW would require stepping up the 230V delivered by the grid, and pulling 80A from a single phase, which is either over the limit of many residential supplies, or pushing the main breaker’s capacity.

There are technical solutions to this. The home charger (EVSE) could combine 3 phases of 26.6A into a single phase before delivering it through a NACS connector. The EVSE could also increase the voltage internally.

Why Tesla Designed Their Own Connector​

The NACs connector is an elegant design. It uses the same two pins for charging with AC and DC, compared with the clunky Type2/CCS2 arrangement, which has separate pins:

nacs-vs-ccs2.png
The Tesla NACS connector on the left, and the CCS2 connector we’ve adopted in Australia on the right

The adoption of Tesla’s NACS connector by SAE International is a big win for American EV drivers, making charging hardware cheaper, and the charging experience simpler. But don’t expect to see it in Australia anytime soon. Our electrical infrastructure favours the Type2/CCS2 connector, and changing that over to NACS would be a right royal pain in the charging port.

If you want to understand EV charging in Australia, please be aware that we do things a little differently to the rest of the world. Happily, my EV Charging 101 guide gives you everything you need to know for low-stress charging at home and on the road.
 
rederob said:
Sam Evans gets no funding from any car company so to say he's a shill is dishonest.

Yes, there are some car "graveyards" in China. There is also a massive inventory, some 3.4 million cars at February this year, so the few thousand seen in 4 year old videos does not really seem newsworthy.
Additionally, EVs can attract manufacturing incentives as provinces compete to get manufacturers to set up. However the incentive would never cover the cost of manufacture, so any company churning out EVs to profit from putting them in a graveyard would find the opposite to be true in no time at all.

WRT to Chinese car manufacturing data, it's reasonably accurate as legacy automakers would otherwise be complaining about it, and Musk has never queried it for his plant's Shanghai output. Anyone reading the myriad of copied links about the EV graveyard would also read the discredited information about Chinese EV sales. Here's where the situation stood a few months ago, where EV sales were over 25% of total sales, and annual sales were increasing almost 55% since 2017:
View attachment 159064
New sales of ICEVs in China will decline significantly from now on as tighter restrictions on emissions have been introduced.
Click to expand...

I didn't say he is paid by any car company and I'm sure he isn't.

He routinely posts pro CCP propaganda etc and is clearly being paid by them, no doubt indirectly. The CCP routinely approaches social media content producers offering money to promote their agendas. There's no secret about this. You often find multiple channels literally using the exact same script word for word, presented as their own material including as personal anecdotes etc, which is pro CCP propaganda.
 
Sdajii said:
He routinely posts pro CCP propaganda etc and is clearly being paid by them, no doubt indirectly.
Click to expand...
I have watched nearly every Sam Evans Youtube upload. Sam regularly expresses his distrust of China and tells about his unenjoyable experiences of that country. Sams ability to post his content was even banned by China.
This is just one of dozens of your baseless claims on ASF.

Sam is very opinionated, though tries to be fair with his comments. He has a knack for sussing out industry foolishness and gets a kick from laying his boot into Mary Barra and her outlandish claims for GM.

With regard to China, he correctly notes it's the auto capital of the world and leads in EV manufacture by a huge margin.
To his credit, he often dissects data astutely, like he did today regarding BYD's June sales figures. He's worked out that BYD has big problems getting traction in most overseas markets, and that mid-sized sedans is not an attractive sales segment. BYD needs to do a Tesla and knock off thousands of dollars from its overseas offerings which are often more than double their price in China.
 
mullokintyre said:
Her problem is shes just another entitled elitist who expects everything laid on for her because of who she (thinks) she is.
Mick
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I've no idea who she is, the name isn't even familiar, but whilst I can see the business aspect for Tesla from an overall societal perspective a common "one fits all" approach to EV charging makes far more sense.

We don't have brand specific petrol stations after all.
 
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