Electric cars?

[pozindustrial]

Its called the Urban Heat Island effect.
A good disscussion can be found Here from MIT.
When you look at where the majority of weather stations are (in urban areas, because they have been settled the longest), it goes some way(but not all ) to explaining why we get the headlines about increasing global temperatures.
Mick

Wow, I had never heard of that. Thanks. Accurately describes what I thought.

 

[farmerge]

Nothing like a lunffull of car emissions to up the heartbeat and bring tears to the eyes.
Oxygen masks may well be the answer one day.

Oophs another typo by me "lunffull" should of course be lungfull

 

[qldfrog]

I wonder why we never hear about humans heating the atmosphere through buildings, vehicles and civilisation quite apart from CO2 emissions. As a kid I rode my bike back to suburbia one night from a country area in winter and marvelled at the instant temperature difference (heat) in the suburbs. At that time it was home heating, but in summer the removal of forest and its replacement by houses and roads must contribute strongly to heating of our atmosphere. Instead of vegetation absorbing large amounts of sun heat we now reflect it with roofs and paving and hold it in the structures and release it later, and in summer or winter we create heat from efforts to moderate the temperature of our homes, factories and offices plus cooking and heating our shower water. Our vehicles produce vast amounts of heat, large industries produce lots of heat so in my opinion we don't need carbon dioxide, we only need civilisation. We must be significantly warming the planet from that alone, so anything we can do to lessen it is a benefit. EVs produce very little heat compared to ICE vehicles because they use their energy source much more efficiently. And we have already had the arguments dispelling the myth that generating electricity is more polluting than extracting and refining and distributing fossil fuels.

You are definitely right here,and true EV are more efficient vs thermal engine.Honestly, the real issue is the battery we use:
we are pushing aka the west/wef for a technology which is not doable/ready at world wide scale, not even in most nations
If we can create a sodium based cheaper battery, that becomes a no brainer.
It makes no financial sense to get an EV vs ice identical vehicle here in Australia, a country with one of the highest free wealth per habitant, imagine for the 80% of the poorer world....
But yes habitat, urbanisation,bare earth fields,ICE heat release all contribute to changing the earth heat balance, whereas CO2 ....lol
Removing thermometer from a room does not cool it... causality seems to be ignored
Back to EV
While looking at the EV offers in Europe,I was shocked by the amount of EV microcars.
Interesting but so unsuited here...https://www.citroen.fr/ami

 

[divs4ever]

You are definitely right here,and true EV are more efficient vs thermal engine.Honestly, the real issue is the battery we use:
we are pushing aka the west/wef for a technology which is not doable/ready at world wide scale, not even in most nations
If we can create a sodium based cheaper battery, that becomes a no brainer.
It makes no financial sense to get an EV vs ice identical vehicle here in Australia, a country with one of the highest free wealth per habitant, imagine for the 80% of the poorer world....
But yes habitat, urbanisation,bare earth fields,ICE heat release all contribute to changing the earth heat balance, whereas CO2 ....lol
Removing thermometer from a room does not cool it... causality seems to be ignored
Back to EV
While looking at the EV offers in Europe,I was shocked by the amount of EV microcars.
Interesting but so unsuited here...https://www.citroen.fr/ami

not so totally unsuited here when they implement 'smart cities ' ( and 15 minute cities )

am wondering if the future is more Judge Dredd rather than Mad Max

 

[Telamelo]

 

[JohnDe]

You are definitely right here,and true EV are more efficient vs thermal engine.Honestly, the real issue is the battery we use:
we are pushing aka the west/wef for a technology which is not doable/ready at world wide scale, not even in most nations
If we can create a sodium based cheaper battery, that becomes a no brainer.
It makes no financial sense to get an EV vs ice identical vehicle here in Australia, a country with one of the highest free wealth per habitant, imagine for the 80% of the poorer world....
But yes habitat, urbanisation,bare earth fields,ICE heat release all contribute to changing the earth heat balance, whereas CO2 ....lol
Removing thermometer from a room does not cool it... causality seems to be ignored
Back to EV
While looking at the EV offers in Europe,I was shocked by the amount of EV microcars.
Interesting but so unsuited here...https://www.citroen.fr/ami

FYI most, if not all, Australian fuel oil comes from overseas. We are reliant on oil rich countries. While all Australian electricity is produced in Australia, and we are reliant on no one but ourselves.

We have two cars in our household, one is an ICEV & the other a EV.

With the ICEV, I spend approximately $250 to $330 on imported fuel per month, mostly driving local.

The EV costs on average $60 per month for similar local driving, in electricity generated in Australia. However, there was a large increase this month with an additional 2000km interstate driving and using expensive superchargers, but still a cost savings over imported fuel.

 

[Telamelo]

 

[pozindustrial]

You are definitely right here,and true EV are more efficient vs thermal engine.Honestly, the real issue is the battery we use:
we are pushing aka the west/wef for a technology which is not doable/ready at world wide scale, not even in most nations
If we can create a sodium based cheaper battery, that becomes a no brainer.
It makes no financial sense to get an EV vs ice identical vehicle here in Australia, a country with one of the highest free wealth per habitant, imagine for the 80% of the poorer world....
But yes habitat, urbanisation,bare earth fields,ICE heat release all contribute to changing the earth heat balance, whereas CO2 ....lol
Removing thermometer from a room does not cool it... causality seems to be ignored
Back to EV
While looking at the EV offers in Europe,I was shocked by the amount of EV microcars.
Interesting but so unsuited here...https://www.citroen.fr/ami

I don't wish to contradict your statement, I guess I would like more information. Given that my first vehicle had a four cylinder, naturally aspirated engine with one carby that I thought (incorrectly) was a fuel miser and now the equivalent is a bigger engine that uses much less fuel, stops and goes faster etc., I am sure there will be advances with batteries and power systems over decades, but Musk has many bases covered right now it seems to me. He was little affected by the semi conductor shortage due to forward orders and the use of simpler chips, he produced 1.3 million vehicles last year using existing battery technology plus supplying big batteries for the grid, plus the big semis and is ramping up each factory as well as building a new one in Mexico and he has the ability to lower prices yet still have a healthy margin. So I can't see what you mean about the battery being the problem or is that just other manufacturers generally around the globe who might want to begin making EVs? I think reliable super chargers are the biggest problem. I am an interested observer with a desire to own a Tesla in the future. I would not consider any other EV mostly because of Tesla's superior super chargers, but also because I believe Teslas are designed better with better software.

 

[pozindustrial]

I don't wish to contradict your statement, I guess I would like more information. Given that my first vehicle had a four cylinder, naturally aspirated engine with one carby that I thought (incorrectly) was a fuel miser and now the equivalent is a bigger engine that uses much less fuel, stops and goes faster etc., I am sure there will be advances with batteries and power systems over decades, but Musk has many bases covered right now it seems to me. He was little affected by the semi conductor shortage due to forward orders and the use of simpler chips, he produced 1.3 million vehicles last year using existing battery technology plus supplying big batteries for the grid, plus the big semis and is ramping up each factory as well as building a new one in Mexico and he has the ability to lower prices yet still have a healthy margin. So I can't see what you mean about the battery being the problem or is that just other manufacturers generally around the globe who might want to begin making EVs? I think reliable super chargers are the biggest problem. I am an interested observer with a desire to own a Tesla in the future. I would not consider any other EV mostly because of Tesla's superior super chargers, but also because I believe Teslas are designed better with better software.

Looks like I got the answer with the video above

 

[Value Collector]

You are definitely right here,and true EV are more efficient vs thermal engine.Honestly, the real issue is the battery we use:
we are pushing aka the west/wef for a technology which is not doable/ready at world wide scale, not even in most nations
If we can create a sodium based cheaper battery, that becomes a no brainer.
It makes no financial sense to get an EV vs ice identical vehicle here in Australia, a country with one of the highest free wealth per habitant, imagine for the 80% of the poorer world....
But yes habitat, urbanisation,bare earth fields,ICE heat release all contribute to changing the earth heat balance, whereas CO2 ....lol
Removing thermometer from a room does not cool it... causality seems to be ignored
Back to EV
While looking at the EV offers in Europe,I was shocked by the amount of EV microcars.
Interesting but so unsuited here...https://www.citroen.fr/ami

As battery tech changes the factories will just start using the new batteries in the cars. There is no point delaying the production of EV’s until the perfect battery arrives. Because current battery tech is good enough, and any future improvements can easily be adopted as they come along.

As for cost of ownership, I have done the numbers and Ev’s easily have a much lower cost of ownership over their life than petrol cars when you take in the cost of fuel and maintenance over their life.

 

[qldfrog]

Looks like I got the answer with the video above

Look at the availability of lithium, the horrendous environmental cost, current absence of recycling ability then see if you can scale that lithium battery usage to the whole world.
That is the issue.
Once a better battery principe is found..I used tech meaning the chemical reaction used.then yes we can think about going electric on a world wide level in maybe 30 or 40 year but not before..
We need to create that electricity in the first place and that is not a given either if we add all the transportation energy currently done with oil.
Anecdotally, yes: get an EV for the fun of it, after all people 20y ago were buying Porsche or Mercs with scan regards on ROI..we have only one life.
But you will not save the planet that way

 

[JohnDe]

Look at the availability of lithium, the horrendous environmental cost, current absence of recycling ability then see if you can scale that lithium battery usage to the whole world.
That is the issue.
Once a better battery principe is found..I used tech meaning the chemical reaction used.then yes we can think about going electric on a world wide level in maybe 30 or 40 year but not before..
We need to create that electricity in the first place and that is not a given either if we add all the transportation energy currently done with oil.
Anecdotally, yes: get an EV for the fun of it, after all people 20y ago were buying Porsche or Mercs with scan regards on ROI..we have only one life.
But you will not save the planet that way

Looks like the problem you have found will ensure that you will not own or invest in EVs and battery technology for the short to medium term. And the possibility of you investing in Uranium must be near zero, given all the environmental issues that it causes.

I'm not sure how your concern of the environment affects your view on oil and gas, seeing as both contribute to all sorts of environmental and health issues, but maybe it is because they have been around for so long, we tend to miss the damage to the planet and our own health. Cancers have increased exponentially during the past few decades, not many seem to understand that vehicle exhaust is a huge contributor and that it doesn't just disappear but ends up in our water, land, food, homes, schools, and everywhere that the wind takes it.

 

[Value Collector]

Look at the availability of lithium, the horrendous environmental cost, current absence of recycling ability then see if you can scale that lithium battery usage to the whole world.
That is the issue.
Once a better battery principe is found..I used tech meaning the chemical reaction used.then yes we can think about going electric on a world wide level in maybe 30 or 40 year but not before..
We need to create that electricity in the first place and that is not a given either if we add all the transportation energy currently done with oil.
Anecdotally, yes: get an EV for the fun of it, after all people 20y ago were buying Porsche or Mercs with scan regards on ROI..we have only one life.
But you will not save the planet that way

You seem to just repeat all the old myths created by other EV cynics.

1. Tesla batteries are recycled

2. Yes, mining materials has an environmental impact, but those materials can be used endlessly recycled many times over for generations, so the impact is small, compared to drilling oil which needs to be done repeatedly every week to keep your petrol car going.


Think of the mining of battery materials as building up a stock of battery materials that will go on being recycled and used long after than first car.

 

[JohnDe]

Battery EV Taxis in the Sydney, 2 so far -

 

[qldfrog]

Making more sense than a Tesla, at long last they are coming

Believe it or not, electric UTVs will revolutionize the off-roading industry – here's how

Utility Terrain Vehicles (UTVs) are popular off-roading vehicles thanks to their versatile applications in agriculture, hunting, recreation, other general off-road...

electrek.co

 

[JohnDe]

Making more sense than a Tesla, at long last they are coming

Believe it or not, electric UTVs will revolutionize the off-roading industry – here's how

Utility Terrain Vehicles (UTVs) are popular off-roading vehicles thanks to their versatile applications in agriculture, hunting, recreation, other general off-road...

electrek.co

I'm not sure whether you are serious or taking the micky. For now, I'll go with the laugh. Yes, I can see them driving in city streets, cheap registration, easy to park, perfect to drive to work or the shops.

 

[Value Collector]

Making more sense than a Tesla, at long last they are coming

Believe it or not, electric UTVs will revolutionize the off-roading industry – here's how

Utility Terrain Vehicles (UTVs) are popular off-roading vehicles thanks to their versatile applications in agriculture, hunting, recreation, other general off-road...

electrek.co

Wait… what? I don’t understand the connection to Tesla, they aren’t even the same markets, unless you are talking about Tesla’s Quad bike that will be an optional extra with the cyber truck.

 

[Value Collector]

I'm not sure whether you are serious or taking the micky. For now, I'll go with the laugh. Yes, I can see them driving in city streets, cheap registration, easy to park, perfect to drive to work or the shops.

I am driving through South Dakota at the moment, Heading to Omaha for the Berkshire Hathaway meeting, and those All Terrain Vehicles are every where, they seem to be allowed to drive them on the roads here. I see families loaded in them heading into town to the shops, and they have number plates

 

[JohnDe]

I am driving through South Dakota at the moment, Heading to Omaha for the Berkshire Hathaway meeting, and those All Terrain Vehicles are every where, they seem to be allowed to drive them on the roads here. I see families loaded in them heading into town to the shops, and they have number plates

They sure have more relaxed road rules than we do. Some of the things we saw on the roads and highways made us laugh and shudder.

 

[farmerge]

I am driving through South Dakota at the moment, Heading to Omaha for the Berkshire Hathaway meeting, and those All Terrain Vehicles are every where, they seem to be allowed to drive them on the roads here. I see families loaded in them heading into town to the shops, and they have number plates

Makes one wonder aboutthe safety aspect of an overloaded vehicle.