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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.9%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.8%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.9%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.2%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    196
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farmerge said:
Good evening JohnDe have been thinking about EV's since you invested way back when. Since then though a family I do a lot of work for, and he is no dud, have bought a Hybrid model. in under 12 months the battery died leaving him stranded in the middle of South Perth at a medical facility. Quite an expensive exercise to get a replacement battery and get and running again. BUT me and she are still toying with the idea, and our nxt and final vehicle purchase will either a full EV or a Hybrid. 50/50.
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Value Collector said:
Wouldn’t that be covered under warranty?

Teslas have an 8 years warranty on the battery.
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Yes LG had an issue with the way they were building the battery packs and had to recall and change a lot of 2019/20 Hyundai, Kia and some Chevy Bolt cars to replace the traction batteries.
The Kia's that had the same battery pack manufactured by SK innovation didn't have the issue.
Apparently the issue( which was something to do with end tab insulation) has been resolved and it didn't deter me from purchasing a Hyundai Kona EV, there will always be some issues with new technology, especially when processes are being scaled up IMO.
From my understanding the recall is just about complete.
By the way @farmerge did your friend keep the car, or move it on?
www.reuters.com

Cells in GM, Hyundai EV battery fires linked to several LG plants

Shares of Korean battery maker LG Chem (051910.KS) slid to a nine-month low on Friday as investors digested reports linking fires in General Motors Co and Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS) vehicles to LG batteries from at least two Asia plants.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

www.drive.com.au

The $1.13 billion recall: Hyundai to replace batteries in 82,000 electric cars due to fire risk

Australia will be part of a global recall of two of Hyundai’s latest electric cars due to a fire risk when recharging.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
 
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JohnDe said:
Did your friend purchase ,a 'new' for him, second hand hybrid vehicle?

A new under warranty hybrid should have all components covered under warranty, unless the owner has done something to void the warranty.

By the time you are ready to purchase there will be a lot more options and information.

www.carsguide.com.au

Hybrid car batteries explained

If your knowledge of batteries extends about as far as “I’m pretty sure the TV remote takes double-As”, the world of electrified vehicles - hybrids, plug-in electric vehicles (PHEVs) and pure electric vehicles (EVs) - and the batteries they use may all seem a bit foreign.
www.carsguide.com.au www.carsguide.com.au
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No it was a demo model but I think he may have left something on for an extended period of time, hence the DEAD battery.
 
farmerge said:
No it was a demo model but I think he may have left something on for an extended period of time, hence the DEAD battery.
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Demonstrator vehicles carry the remaining factory warranty.

I would hazard a guess that he’s not telling you all the facts. The only thing an owner of an EV can do to kill the battery pack is to drive it until the batteries are totally drained. Pretty hard in an hybrid, unless they ran it out of liquid fuel first.
 
farmerge said:
No it was a demo model but I think he may have left something on for an extended period of time, hence the DEAD battery.
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Was it a flat battery or a dead battery? Kinda of two different things.

I agree with Johnde, I think he is not giving you all the facts some how.
 
farmerge said:
No it was a demo model but I think he may have left something on for an extended period of time, hence the DEAD battery.
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Another issue that is happening with E.V's is, a lot use an auxilliary 12v car batteries to run the auxilliary equipment eg lights, stereo, cabin fan, standby electronics etc. This can be charged by the traction battery, but the way the user sets it up can be a bit problematic, from what I understand.
I recently went away for 4 weeks, I put a 12v trickle charger on, before I left. I'm not confident in my tech knowledge of setting up the car to look after the 12v battery when I'm not using it.:thumbsdown:
 
JohnDe said:
Demonstrator vehicles carry the remaining factory warranty.

I would hazard a guess that he’s not telling you all the facts. The only thing an owner of an EV can do to kill the battery pack is to drive it until the batteries are totally drained. Pretty hard in an hybrid, unless they ran it out of liquid fuel first.
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Jogn De I'm probably not aware of all the facts surrounding this saga, but I do know he was totally brassed off coming out of a medical facility after a big shoulder op check-up to find this vehicle he was really impressed with to not being able to even open the door let alone start it.
 
farmerge said:
Jogn De I'm probably not aware of all the facts surrounding this saga, but I do know he was totally brassed off coming out of a medical facility after a big shoulder op check-up to find this vehicle he was really impressed with to not being able to even open the door let alone start it.
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Aah, that explains a lot. All car types still use a 12V acid battery (12V lithium is slowly being introduce) to operate regular functions like the central locking, radio, engine starter motor, headlights, and so on.

For your mate to be unable to open the doors, he had a dead flat 12V battery. And as you mentioned before, he probably left something on.

Mystery solved. Your mates hybrid did not have a dead lithium battery pack, he had a dead 12V battery. And like any type of ICEV, without the 12V battery it is not going to start.

I'm surprised that he didn't use the key and barrel to open the door, though I have come across some brands that hide the barrel very well. A VW Passat I came across had a dead battery, central locking could not work without power, couldn't get into the car to open the bonnet, and had to Google search how to get in - pop the plastic cover off the door handle and there was the lock barrel.
 
So a third battery in backup..hum..there is a design fault here.hopefully sorted soon..not that EV are that new
 
qldfrog said:
So a third battery in backup..hum..there is a design fault here.hopefully sorted soon..not that EV are that new
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Third battery? No one I know of with an ICEV have a backup battery, other than my brothers Nissan Patrol.

The 12V battery in EVs because -

​
If an electric vehicle’s 12-volt battery dies, what happens? Just like in a gas-powered vehicle, the power supply to many critical systems is compromised.​
​
But you aren’t exactly dead in the water. It’s a typical 12-volt system, which means you’re able to jump-start the system either with a booster pack or with jumper cables connected to another vehicle.​
 
qldfrog said:
So a third battery in backup..hum..there is a design fault here.hopefully sorted soon..not that EV are that new
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How many batteries does your ICE car have? What happens if you leave your lights on?
ICE cars with flat batteries is a common thing.

The car in question was a hybrid, so has limited battery storage and uses the petrol motor to charge the 12v, so will operate like an ice car and end up with a dead battery if you leave the lights on.

However full electric cars have a huge battery that they use to charge the 12v, so this wouldn’t have been an issue with an EV, but as I said common in ice cars.
 
farmerge said:
Yeah that was proved to be the case
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From what I've been hearing it can be a bit of an issue, the E.V 12v battery gets forgotten about and it probably doesn't get charged every time the car starts. I know on a forum I'm on quite a few people have talked about a failing 12v battery it is probably one of those items that the E.V companies haven't dedicated a huge amount of time in the long term health issue.
But I bought a cheap lithium jump pack just in case, apparently a lot of people on the forum recommend it and I think it is cheap insurance.
If the jump pack can kick start the E.V's electrics, you can force the main battery to charge the 12v.
There are probably other ways around it, but I'm new to the E.V game, so just feeling my way ATM.
 
sptrawler said:
From what I've been hearing it can be a bit of an issue, the E.V 12v battery gets forgotten about and it probably doesn't get charged every time the car starts. I know on a forum I'm on quite a few people have talked about a failing 12v battery it is probably one of those items that the E.V companies haven't dedicated a huge amount of time in the long term health issue.
But I bought a cheap lithium jump pack just in case, apparently a lot of people on the forum recommend it and I think it is cheap insurance.
If the jump pack can kick start the E.V's electrics, you can force the main battery to charge the 12v.
There are probably other ways around it, but I'm new to the E.V game, so just feeling my way ATM.
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Tesla recently change to installing 12V lithium batteries. My model just missed out, but I will get a message when the battery management system picks up an issue with the battery - Tesla will now send push notifications when 12V battery needs to be replaced

Tesla Flat 12v Battery​

Each Tesla has 2 batteries, the large expensive battery pack with an 8 year warranty and a traditional 12v battery that runs the cars ancillary systems like any other car. While many people monitor the health of the main battery pack, the 12v battery can fail or run flat, especially if the car is left for a long period of time and the main battery has entered its low energy mode.

If the 12v battery is flat then it can feel pretty terminal for the car, the doors won't unlock, the computers won't fire up and more worrying the main car battery will not charge. Tesla charge the 12v battery from the main battery pack, but Tesla also take the view they must protect the main battery pack as much as possible and if it is running low may put the battery into a deep sleep/low energy mode. This minimises any drain on the battery preserving its life, but this equally prevents it topping up the 12v battery and effectively paralysing the car. The 12v battery can run flat within 24 hours once the main battery pack has stopped supporting it.
All is not lost however, and this guide talks you through how to get going again so long as the car is close to a charge port and you have access to a few tools and a the ability to provide a 12v jump start. The basic sequence is:
  • Gain access to the 12v battery or a 12v charge point
  • Provide a 12v jump or charger to the 12v battery to enable the 12v systems to power up. We would recommend charging the 12v battery for at least 5 mins before trying to do anything with the car including charging the car to avoid any glitches.
  • Connect the car to a car charger or the UMC. We'd advise against using a rapid charger or supercharger initially, as much as anything this is not a fast process and the charge rates will be initially slow.
  • Charge the car to a modest state of charge and then charge freely on whichever charger you wish to use.

This is a matter of last resort and the main battery pack running to empty is not advisable.

Gaining access to the battery.​

To gain access to the 12v battery you need entry to the car. Each car is slightly different and the details of the steps to gain access are include in the user and first responder manuals however we cover the basic steps here.

The battery is accessible in the frunk of the car and so to gain access tot he battery, you need to open the frunk. If course with a flat battery you can't just open the frunk as normal and you have to follow the emergency frunk opening procedure. Each model has a slightly different process for access and these are detailed in the appropriate guides linked to above, however as a quick start guide:

  • On early model S, you may find access through no more than removing the nose cone.
  • Tesla are increasingly putting cables behind the towing eye cover. Remove the cover and see if there are two wires that can be pulled forward. Connect the 12v battery charger to these and it should energise the lock.
  • If there are no cables behind the towing eye cover, then behind the front wheel arches there are emergency release cords than can be pulled on each side. This should pop the bonnet.

Charging the 12v battery​

Once access to the frunk has been gained, you will need to remove some of the plastic coverings between the storage area and the windscreen to reveal the 12v battery access points. If there is nothing obvious bit the 12v battery is visible then you can connect directly to this.

You should not use another car as the 12v source. By far the best way to charge the 12V battery is to use a battery charger or emergency 12v battery pack which some breakdown companies carry. The charger is the better option as you want to charge the 12v battery for a short period before trying to do any more with the car.

Lithium Ion Low Voltage Battery​

From 2022, many Teslas come with a Lithium Ion Low Voltage battery pack. This has some benefits but can also be more difficult to deal with if it runs flat. This battery typically has a voltage above 12V and as a result a normal car battery charger may not work. If you get a flat battery with these cars then roadside assistance may be the only option.

Coupled with the above, cars with the LFP main battery pack, which are typically Standard Range models, need to regularily top up the mauin battery to 100% to ensure the car maintains the correct charge level in the low voltage battery.

Charging the main battery​

Once you have breathed some life back into the 12V battery the car should be able to power up its computers. Open the charge port and connect a charger. When the main battery is so low, the charge will take some time to get going with any speed. We suggest not using a supercharger as the charge time may be very long and may inconvenience others.Let the cars battery management system charge the car as needed. You should be able to remove the 12v battery charger once the main battery charging has commenced.

The 12v battery may still be at a fairly low level of charge however once the main battery pack has reached a sufficient level of charge it will charge the 12v battery. Unlike internal combustion engined cars, you should not need to go for a lengthy driuve to charge the 12v battery.
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sptrawler said:
From what I've been hearing it can be a bit of an issue, the E.V 12v battery gets forgotten about and it probably doesn't get charged every time the car starts. I know on a forum I'm on quite a few people have talked about a failing 12v battery it is probably one of those items that the E.V companies haven't dedicated a huge amount of time in the long term health issue.
But I bought a cheap lithium jump pack just in case, apparently a lot of people on the forum recommend it and I think it is cheap insurance.
If the jump pack can kick start the E.V's electrics, you can force the main battery to charge the 12v.
There are probably other ways around it, but I'm new to the E.V game, so just feeling my way ATM.
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I used to have to charge my old commodore battery like that, I was constantly having battery issues with the commodore because I tended to not drive it much through the week days except for little short trips of about 2 kms, so the battery tended to drain.

But 3 years into the Tesla ownership I haven’t had to worry about the 12V, I couldn’t even tell you where it is exactly in the car, Maybe it’s under the storage area in the front, but I really don’t know ?.

I will keep neglecting it and let you guys know if I run into issues ??
 
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