Electric cars?

[JohnDe]

Electric vehicles help farmers drive savings

Electric side-by-sides have hit farm tracks, and some owners said they were a viable alternative to the petrol- or diesel-powered equivalent.

Phil and Fiona Murdoch recently purchased an electric side-by-side vehicle to use on their 490-hectare conservation property adjoining the Hattah National Park in north-west Victoria.

It will be used to help water plants, direct seed native vegetation and take guests bird watching.

The couple first considered getting an EV for the property a decade ago, but the models were unsuitable and they waited for the technology to evolve.

"We trialled a vehicle nearly 10 years ago and it couldn't pull up our sand dunes," Mrs Murdoch said.

"So when we tried this new EV we put a water cart on behind it, we put the direct seeder on behind it, and it pulled up the sand dunes, no worries."

Mr Murdoch used to wear earmuffs when travelling on the quad bike but said hearing protection was not needed on the quieter electric side-by-side.

"I'm quite deaf and that helps a lot with not having to compete against the engine noise, particularly when Fiona's with me," he said.

It also enables the couple and their guests to get a closer look at some of the animals living on the property, which would usually be scared off by noisier vehicles.

The Murdochs have a solar system on their house and have been considering installing a battery, which would enable them to recharge the EV overnight with renewable energy.

"We were spending $1,200 to $1,400 a year on fuel for the quad runner and it would nearly be $2,000 now [with the recent increases in fuel costs]," Mr Murdoch said.

"Then we'd have to go 80 kilometres into town to get the fuel anyway, so there's definitely a saving to be made with solar power and EV," Mr Murdoch said.

Trial shows farm EVs add up

A trial at Agriculture Victoria's Ellinbank Smart Farm in West Gippsland showed electric side-by-sides could be charged from solar for free or from the grid for just $150.

That was based on travelling 5,200 kilometres per year.

Over the same time and for the same mileage, Agriculture Victoria has calculated the electric model emitted just two kilograms of carbon dioxide when charged from the grid, compared to 5.5 tonnes from a petrol model.

The trial has shown it would cost $19,339 to own an electric model for three years, compared to $24,329 for a petrol and $28,570 for a diesel model.

Agriculture Victoria senior technical officer Greg Morris said the vehicles took eight hours to charge from empty on a standard 240-volt power socket.

Mr Morris said some of the research farm's staff were initially sceptical of the electric model and gravitated towards the "normal" petrol or diesel ones.

"Originally it was hard to get people to get out of the normal of taking the ones that they were used to," he said.

"But definitely they've seen the benefits of the electric [models], particularly the decreased noise and they're not having to refill the vehicles … so now they're well sought after in the fleet.

"You can actually have a conversation as you drive. Often, particularly the petrol versions, they're quite loud and trying to speak while driving you basically seem to be yelling at each other."

Mr Morris said despite the advantages of the electric models, they weighed more than petrol or diesel models and those keeping them for the long-term may have to consider replacing batteries.

 

[rederob]

The above is one of those statements that people seem to think that if you state it enough times, people will believe its true.

It's based on consumer research - 54% of consumers would consider buying an EV (if one was actually available!) as their next car.

Firstly, car makers are there to make a buck. They are not there to help out the environment, or help people achieve their lifelong dreams etc etc.

Legacy automaker sales are plummeting while NEV sales are doubling. Tesla and BYD - both solely manufacturers of NEVs - are number 1 and 3 respectively amongst all automakers.
Furthermore, Musk has a clear intention of being socially responsible with this telling statement from Elon Musk himself on Twitter:

“When Tesla’s market cap, making sustainable energy products, exceeds that of Aramco, producing fossil fuels, you know the future will be good for Earth.”​

Secondly, what proof does anyone have that car makers prioritise their sales because of strict vehicle emission standards.

That has been posted on previously, as the words come direct from automakers.
Volkswagen said stricter fuel standards would incentivise EV uptake.

Why do the big manufacturers build big plants in China?
Is it because they want to hep the Chinese economy?
Hell no, its cheap labour and they are right in the middle of one of the bigger car markets in the world.

China no longer is considered to have cheap labour. Automakers set up in China because it has the world's best supply chains for everything manufactured, and also happens to be the the biggest car market.

Thirdly, do people seriously believe that the vehicles delivered have been detuned to only meet the Australian emissions standards?
Hell no, they exactly the same as the European, American or Chinese sales.
If the government were to increase the emission standards to that of the Europeans , do people really think that the EV makers would suddenly flood us with product because they are so grateful for these high emission standards?

The point is that we have been overlooked by the worlds automakers, and now get the dregs of availability. So nowadays buying an EV here is like trying to win the Stawell gift as the backmarker when we are the slowest runner.

We are a pissy little backwater, that create headaches for car makers because
(a) we are right hand drive mob that causes them to retool every time a RHD shipment is prepared.

Only the dash layout is different, so any retooling is minor, while the production runs for RHD lines are as commercially lucrative as for LHDs.

(b)We are a long way from the manufacturers, and sea shipping is expensive.

Same cost for an EV or an ICEV to be shipped, so that makes no sense.

(c) The OZ car sales numbers are equivalent to a rounding error in the sales spreadsheet of worldwide production.

Because of previous policies... and if you don't believe that, then look at Norway, the UK or across the ditch (New Zealand).

 

[JohnDe]

Some interesting comments about EV supply and BYD swap stations

 

[JohnDe]

We're going to see a lot more EV batteries for home electricity storage, especially with the coming price rises.

"Once a battery has reached the end of its usable life in a vehicle, however, the cells can still be used for power storage, grid stabilisation, or to power a home or business that might otherwise run on renewable energy, with the World Economic Forum suggesting they could solve the “energy-storage conundrum” presented by solar and wind-power generation."​

Used EV batteries get a second lease on life

Second-life EV batteries hold the key to the global shift to a renewable power supply, acting as a crucial resource to power homes, stabilise new and existing grid infrastructure, and even power airports, according to the World Economic Forum.

The storage capacity of the lithium-ion batteries found in electric vehicles can begin to degrade in as few as eight years, with factors like recharging frequency, the use of high-speed DC chargers, and even exposure to high temperatures when parked – a particular problem in countries like Australia – all impacting the longevity of the cells.

Once a battery has reached the end of its usable life in a vehicle, however, the cells can still be used for power storage, grid stabilisation, or to power a home or business that might otherwise run on renewable energy, with the World Economic Forum suggesting they could solve the “energy-storage conundrum” presented by solar and wind-power generation.

It is a market primed to expand as more electric vehicles come on stream, and their batteries reach the end of their vehicular lives. A McKinsey report predicted second-life storage from EV batteries could exceed 200 gigawatt-hours by 2030, and grow to meet the annual energy needs of the US in the “decades to come”.

Premium car maker Audi has found that once batteries reach the end of their usable in-car life, they retain up to 80 per cent of their original storage capacity, giving them a second-life term of more than 10 years and offsetting the emissions generated in their creation over two lifespans.

Audi recently partnered with energy company RWE to deliver an energy-storage facility in Herdecke, Germany, driven by second-life batteries taken from Audi E-Tron development vehicles.

The vast battery-storage facility, comprising three 12m containers of 552 battery modules, each with 100 second-life lithium-ion cells, can store around seven megawatt hours of energy – enough power for an electric vehicle to drive around the globe 1.5 times – which can be fed into the grid for around one hour when needed.

“Powerful battery storage plays an essential role in the energy revolution. Flexible storage technologies are needed to compensate for short-term fluctuations in renewable energy and to stabilise the grid,” says Roger Miesen, chief executive of RWE.

“Battery-storage systems are ideally suited for this purpose. Together with Audi, in Herdecke we’re testing how end-of-life high-voltage batteries from electric cars behave as stationary energy-storage devices when connected together.

“The continued use of such second-life storage is a sustainable alternative to brand-new batteries. The experience gained from this project will help us identify the applications in which we can most cost effectively operate such battery systems.”

While the Audi and RWE program is a pilot, second-life solutions are already in play around the world.

The Nissan Leaf was one of the world’s first mainstream EVs, launching globally in 2010, and so is also one of the only vehicles old enough to be able to put second-life batteries to use in significant numbers.

One project, run in partnership with energy company Enel Group, has seen those batteries put to work in Melilla, a Spanish city on the North African coast that is not connected to Spain’s electricity grid.

Instead, 78 Nissan Leaf batteries, 48 of which have been recycled, are used to deliver 1.7MWh of electricity storage – enough to stabilise the city’s thermal power supply, or to deliver power for 15 minutes in the case of a short-term blackout.

And in Italy, plans are underway to develop a 30MW solar park at Rome’s Fiumicino airport, which will link to a bank of recycled EV batteries delivering 10MWh of storage, capturing excess energy generated during the daylight hours and deploying it during evening peaks.

 

[rederob]

More Chinese automakers are taking on Teslas, but we are not going to see these models in Australia any time soon.
This one is from Leap Motors:

The Leap Motor C01 630 Pro+ four-wheel drive is its top-performance variant and comes with two electric drives that allow it to go from zero to a hundred kph in 3.66 seconds. Priced between USD$26,770 and $39,750 it comes with a lifetime warranty for the first owner in China, and already has over 45k pre-orders.

Next is the NIO ET5 which is about to go into production:


Both these cars would sell like hotcakes here as they represent unbeatable value on technology, performance and price, not to mention good looks. Lets hope they keep getting better for when they do eventually hit our shores.

 

[SirRumpole]

Drop in EV prices possible as Lithium prices fall.

Electric cars could get cheaper as a crucial component in them drops in price

The cost of electric cars could start to fall, with the price of a core component in EV batteries expected to reduce, according to Credit Suisse analysts.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

Not exactly E.V but along the mobile electric pathway, the EU has legislated that all mobile phones must have the same charger, hooray.
I wonder if the enlightenment will flow through to E.V's?

An iPhone without Lightning is inevitable, but Apple’s stalling for time

Apple may be forced to ditch the iPhone’s proprietary Lightning port in the coming years thanks to incoming EU laws.

www.smh.com.au

Apple may be forced to ditch the iPhone’s proprietary Lightning port in the coming years, as European lawmakers have reached a deal on legislation that would oblige all portable tech to use USB-C for wired charging. But while Apple has pushed back against the proposed laws, the regulatory push shouldn’t be a surprise for the iPhone-maker.
The European Union has been campaigning for a common charging connector for more than a decade, finally announcing its intention to legislate in September last year. And for almost as long, Apple has been using its Lightning port, which it introduced for the iPhone 5 in 2012.

 

[JohnDe]

This is what enterprising people can do, rather than cry for government to subsidize and pander to the large automotive manufacturers, they go out and build -

Paul Smith joins the electromod movement​

British stripy sock designer Paul Smith has lent his name to a Mini Recharged project, electromodding one of his 1998 Mini Paul Smith Editions.​

​

Mini says Sir Paul is the ‘creative mind behind this collaboration’ and the one-off does appear a striking blend of minimalist exterior and interior with some high-quality, expensive-looking additions to go with the electric drivetrain.​

​

On the hardware front, engineers from ‘Recharged Heritage Limited’ have take the ’98 Mini, ripped out its internal combustion bits and fitted a 72kW electric motor.​

​

A team at Mini’s plant in Oxford, UK, established the Mini Recharge project earlier this year, converting classic Minis to electric drive for big spending clients.​

​

Style first​

We’re promised more details will be revealed soon, as no information on the batteries used, the car’s range or performance are mentioned, although we can see the charge point is in place of the rear fuel filler cap.​

​

The style and modernisation of this Brit classic are championed first, as the designer states: “Three things describe this car perfectly: quality, sustainability and functionality.”​

​

This isn’t the first time Smith has embraced a sustainable Mini. Last year he showed off the Mini Strip, a one-off design exercise that began life as a Mini Cooper SE EV but has been pared back and reimagined as a car built for “simplicity, transparency, sustainability.” Bare metal, sustainable/recycled materials, minimal trim… you get the picture.​

​

This new project has instead taken a 1998 Mini Paul Smith Edition – a limited-to-1,800 special edition of the classic mini shape – and “made the car totally relevant for today,” Smith said.​

​

MINI Recharged by Paul Smith, a 1998 Mini converted to run on a 72kW electric motor​

This prototype with classic Mini body sports a bright blue colour – based on a swatch take from one of Paul Smith’s favourite shirts, so you know – while the lime green battery box ‘recalls a 1990s colour palette.’ You’ll notice the rather smart green British map seen on the electric Mini’s grille, too.​

​

Stunning minimalist cabin​

The cabin looks suitably expensive. Like the Mini Strip, the newly designed car favours reduction and sustainability. Trim has been chucked out, there’s an unclad floor pan and ‘rustic’ floor mats made of recycled rubber.​

​

We’re told Paul Smith’s design ‘leaves out entire instruments in other places’ while a magnet next to the steering wheel accommodates a smartphone which ‘replaces almost all the old buttons and functions on the dashboard.’ Blessedly, the classic Mini central speedometer remains.​

​

Stunning bare-bones interior is minimalist cool but still with central speedo. Most other instruments are through the smartphone.​

The exposed metalwork, quality-looking switches, door handles, window winders and long metal gear shifter all appear first class, while the steering wheel can be completely removed to facilitate entry and exit. And, well, because it’s a cool thing to do.​

​

“We have made a 1990s car totally relevant for today,” is how the designer describes it. “Ideas are never the problem, you can find them everywhere. The challenge is to implement them. Here it worked. A dream has come true.”​

​

It’s just a one-off prototype, set to be given its world premiere at the Salone del Mobile 2022 in Milan this week. Its price? Let’s not even think about it…​

 

[Value Collector]

Not exactly E.V but along the mobile electric pathway, the EU has legislated that all mobile phones must have the same charger, hooray.
I wonder if the enlightenment will flow through to E.V's?

An iPhone without Lightning is inevitable, but Apple’s stalling for time

Apple may be forced to ditch the iPhone’s proprietary Lightning port in the coming years thanks to incoming EU laws.

www.smh.com.au

Apple may be forced to ditch the iPhone’s proprietary Lightning port in the coming years, as European lawmakers have reached a deal on legislation that would oblige all portable tech to use USB-C for wired charging. But while Apple has pushed back against the proposed laws, the regulatory push shouldn’t be a surprise for the iPhone-maker.
The European Union has been campaigning for a common charging connector for more than a decade, finally announcing its intention to legislate in September last year. And for almost as long, Apple has been using its Lightning port, which it introduced for the iPhone 5 in 2012.

The problem with this sort of legislation is that it prevents progress.

For example The USB C port will be a great platform for charging and data transfer, But is this rule was brought in 5 years ago, then we wouldn’t be able to use the USB C, we would be stuck with the Micro, or if the rule came 10years with would be stuck with something even worse.

So I kind of feel that development will stop and what ever the next thing is might never happen.

 

[JohnDe]

Drop in EV prices possible as Lithium prices fall.

Electric cars could get cheaper as a crucial component in them drops in price

The cost of electric cars could start to fall, with the price of a core component in EV batteries expected to reduce, according to Credit Suisse analysts.

www.abc.net.au

More reasons to scrap the idea of governments assisting buyers with tax cuts and fringe benefits, and instead concentrate on the infrastructure.

 

[mullokintyre]

Drop in EV prices possible as Lithium prices fall.

Electric cars could get cheaper as a crucial component in them drops in price

The cost of electric cars could start to fall, with the price of a core component in EV batteries expected to reduce, according to Credit Suisse analysts.

www.abc.net.au

This sort of reporting really peeves me.
Reporters never seem to be capable of taking the obvious next step - namely exactly what how much lithium is used in an EV.
A quick check from This Article shows that back in 2016, a 70KW Model S had a battery pack weighing 453 kg's.
The lithium part weighed around 63 kg.
Tesla has since then reduced their lithium component in each cell we will stick to this figure.
At US 6,000 a tonne the article quoted as current price, the lithium component amounts toUS 378 bucks.
According to Car USnews the Model S starting price is a few bucks shy of USD100k.
The cost of lithium would barely get you a set of mats for the car.
So even if the cost of lithium were to fall to zero, it would save the maker less than 1% of the selling price of the car.
And people wonder why i have such a dim view of media journalists.
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

This is a helpful breakdown -

Breaking Down the Cost of an EV Battery Cell

The average cost of EV batteries has fallen by 89% since 2010. What makes up the cost of a single EV battery cell?

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[qldfrog]

This sort of reporting really peeves me.
Reporters never seem to be capable of taking the obvious next step - namely exactly what how much lithium is used in an EV.
A quick check from This Article shows that back in 2016, a 70KW Model S had a battery pack weighing 453 kg's.
The lithium part weighed around 63 kg.
Tesla has since then reduced their lithium component in each cell we will stick to this figure.
At US 6,000 a tonne the article quoted as current price, the lithium component amounts toUS 378 bucks.
According to Car USnews the Model S starting price is a few bucks shy of USD100k.
The cost of lithium would barely get you a set of mats for the car.
So even if the cost of lithium were to fall to zero, it would save the maker less than 1% of the selling price of the car.
And people wonder why i have such a dim view of media journalists.
Mick

Easy:

 

[JohnDe]

This sort of reporting really peeves me.
Reporters never seem to be capable of taking the obvious next step - namely exactly what how much lithium is used in an EV.
A quick check from This Article shows that back in 2016, a 70KW Model S had a battery pack weighing 453 kg's.
The lithium part weighed around 63 kg.
Tesla has since then reduced their lithium component in each cell we will stick to this figure.
At US 6,000 a tonne the article quoted as current price, the lithium component amounts toUS 378 bucks.
According to Car USnews the Model S starting price is a few bucks shy of USD100k.
The cost of lithium would barely get you a set of mats for the car.
So even if the cost of lithium were to fall to zero, it would save the maker less than 1% of the selling price of the car.
And people wonder why i have such a dim view of media journalists.
Mick

True, but I suppose they're talking about hundreds of thousands of batteries. And Lithium is not the only cost of a battery.

Battery costs rise as lithium demand outstrips supply

The price of batteries for electric vehicles looks set to rise in 2022 following a decade of sharp decline as supplies of lithium and other raw materials fail to keep up with ballooning demand.

While mining companies scramble to increase production from existing facilities and develop new sources of supply, benchmark prices of lithium carbonate ended 2021 at records. In China, the biggest battery-producing country, the price was 261,500 yuan (just over $41,060) a ton, more than five times higher than last January.

Other commodities used in cathodes, the most expensive part of a battery, have also been rising: The price of cobalt has doubled since last January to $70,208 a ton, while nickel jumped 15% to $20,045.

The increases are undermining the technological and efficiency gains of recent years, when automakers and battery makers have worked hard together to develop long-life, high-performance batteries while trying to reduce costs. They also threaten to throw a wrench in the car industry's ambitious plans for electrification just as even formerly reluctant companies like Toyota embrace targets for electric vehicle production.

According to Bloomberg NEF, global electric car sales are estimated to have reached 5.6 million vehicles in 2021 from 3.1 million in 2020, thanks to brisk sales in China. Further demand growth in 2022 will mean a lithium deficit this year as use of the material outstrips production and depletes stockpiles, according to a December report from S&P Global.


The report said that according to S&P Global Market Intelligence, supply is forecast to jump to 636,000 metric tons of lithium carbonate equivalent in 2022, up from an estimated 497,000 in 2021 -- but demand will jump even higher to 641,000 tons, from an estimated 504,000.

Gavin Montgomery, research director for battery raw materials at Wood Mackenzie, said lithium prices are unlikely to crash, as they did in previous cycles: "We're entering a sort of new era in terms of lithium pricing over the next few years because the growth will be so strong."

In the short term, supplies will be limited. Producers in Australia closed down mines in 2020 after a period of low prices, and as COVID-19 lingers, it has proved difficult to rehire staffers and bring production back to pre-pandemic levels.

Meanwhile, Chinese lithium-processing companies that make lithium carbonate were affected by restrictions on power use introduced suddenly in the autumn. Though some of those restrictions have eased, companies appear to be struggling to catch up.

For cobalt, pandemic-induced transportation disruptions and border closures in Africa have been behind the soaring prices. The emergence of the omicron variant has added new disruptions in the main trade route from cobalt-producing Congo through the South African port of Durban to China.

One lithium trader in Japan told Nikkei Asia they expect prices to remain at current high levels, saying, "Based on automakers' electric car targets, we doubt there is sufficient supply of raw material." New technologies such as all-solid-state batteries would need even greater amounts of lithium, the trader added.

According to Bloomberg NEF, prices of lithium-ion battery packs were above $1,200 per kilowatt-hour in 2010 but plummeted to $132 by 2021. However, the company estimates that average prices could rise to $135 per kilowatt-hour in 2022. Cathode materials usually make up around 30% of the total cost of battery packs.


The pressure is on to secure new supplies of raw materials as the global car industry pivots away from the combustion engine to electric cars. Volkswagen and BMW aim to have half their vehicle sales be electric by 2030. Ford Motor expects 40% of its sales globally to be electrified by 2030. In a surprising move, Toyota in December said it would sell 3.5 million electric vehicles in 2030, shedding an image that the company is cautious about the switch to electric vehicles.

Independent battery makers are racing to increase their sources of supply, including the likes of China's CATL, the world's biggest battery producer. China accounts for over 65% of global battery production and over half of lithium chemical production, a dominance that worries many in the car industry at a time of geopolitical tensions.

"No country can compare to China in terms of cost competitiveness," said the Japanese lithium trader. "There are certainly geopolitical or China risks in the supply chain."

Tesla in 2020 secured its own rights to extract lithium from clay deposits in Nevada, an early example of an automaker working to cut out the middleman. In the same year, BMW signed a five-year cobalt supply agreement with Moroccan producer Managem in a deal worth $113 million.

Last month, Volkswagen signed a deal to source the Vulcan Group's "zero carbon" lithium to supply its battery cell factories. The German carmaker announced in the same month that it would establish a joint venture with Belgian materials company Umicore to build up production capacity for precursor and cathode materials in Europe.

Toyota said it has secured enough supplies of battery raw materials, including lithium, to meet its needs until 2030 through cooperation with the trading house Toyota Tsusho, in which Toyota has a stake of around 20%.

Sanshiro Fukao, a senior fellow at the Itochu Research Institute, said carmakers see raw materials as "bargaining chips" in negotiations with battery makers, and failing to secure commodities would mean they would have no choice but to buy expensive batteries from them. In the global race to produce lower-cost electric vehicles, that could be fatal.

Sourcing battery raw materials could soon prove as problematic for many carmakers as sourcing semiconductors has in the past year, Fukao said, and it is possible that carmakers may not be able to produce electric vehicles in the numbers planned due to shortages of materials.

"Whether they can secure raw materials today determines if they can prevail 10 years from now," he said.

 

[sptrawler]

The problem with this sort of legislation is that it prevents progress.

For example The USB C port will be a great platform for charging and data transfer, But is this rule was brought in 5 years ago, then we wouldn’t be able to use the USB C, we would be stuck with the Micro, or if the rule came 10years with would be stuck with something even worse.

So I kind of feel that development will stop and what ever the next thing is might never happen.

You may be right, but development and technology moves on, standards usually have to move with it.
I'm not sure it will curtail development, it will just mean the manufacturers have to agree to have a standard charging protocol, if technology demands a different plug type then I would think that will happen, it will just mean that the manufacturers have to agree to a standard when adopting the new protocol.
It is somewhat like RCA plugs were the go 20 years ago, now most things are HDMI or bluetooth connected, but each manufacturer doesn't have a different connector and those with older RCA equipped plugs can buy adaptors.
E.V's have a similar issue, Tesla, Leaf and others can have different plugs, it will make it increasingly difficult unless they all learn to live together, as more and more E.V's arrive on the road.
CCS2 appears to be rising to the surface, but again from memory the EU legislated that, didn't they?
Somewhat like how much of a problem it would be in the house, if every appliance had a different plug top, depending on which Country it came from. That's why we have Australian standards and to sell an electrical appliance here it has to have the Aust style three pin plug and be able to operate correctly on 230-240vac and 50hz.

 

[mullokintyre]

True, but I suppose they're talking about hundreds of thousands of batteries. And Lithium is not the only cost of a battery.

The article only mentioned lithium.
Read it, and you will see that according to the, the Lithium price has a huge impact on the price of batteries, because a fa;ll in prices will contribute to a fall in battery and hence EV prices.
I am commenting purely on the article in question, not the overall cost of battery production.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

From The new Daily . Not sure how reliable the source is,

The European Parliament has approved a draft law that prohibits the sale of new carbon dioxide-emitting vehicles, set to take effect in 2035.

If the legislation enters into force, it would very likely lead to the end of combustion-engine powered cars and vans in the bloc.

The European Union assembly is now to enter negotiations with the bloc’s member countries, once they have adopted a joint position, meaning that the text of the final law still can be changed or watered down.


The mandate would amount to a prohibition on the sale in the 27-member EU of new cars powered by petrol or diesel.

The draft bill is part of the EU’s climate change package dubbed Fit for 55, aiming to reduce climate-damaging emissions by 55 per cent by 2030, when compared to 1990 levels, and reach climate neutrality by 2050.

It is 13 years away before it goes into effect if the law is indeed passed.
So when will the car manufacturers cease production of ICE vehicles (or for that matter PHEV, hybrids etc).
Or will they keep producing them to sell in other countries (like USA, OZ, China or maybe African countries).
As has been remarked before, Australia really has little choice in what happens to the vehicle market, we take what we are given, not what we want.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

From The new Daily . Not sure how reliable the source is,

It is 13 years away before it goes into effect if the law is indeed passed.
So when will the car manufacturers cease production of ICE vehicles (or for that matter PHEV, hybrids etc).
Or will they keep producing them to sell in other countries (like USA, OZ, China or maybe African countries).
As has been remarked before, Australia really has little choice in what happens to the vehicle market, we take what we are given, not what we want.
Mick

As with all decisions in life, you pay your money, you take your chances.
Then you have to listen endlessly, to the sad stories of those who made the wrong choice, be that ICE or E.V.
It's a bit like Beta cord or VHS, 8 Track or cassette, LPG or petrol.

 

[qldfrog]

As with all decisions in life, you pay your money, you take your chances.
Then you have to listen endlessly, to the sad stories of those who made the wrong choice, be that ICE or E.V.
It's a bit like Beta cord or VHS, 8 Track or cassette, LPG or petrol.

That is why your next ICE should be chinese or Indian.
In the meantime,let the EU collapses in its wetdreams.
Make sure not to be drown with them so invest wisely
Rome or should i say Brussel is burning, and it is not caused by CC...and the Vandals are in the walls

 

[mullokintyre]

From Go Auto

VICTORIA’S state government could introduce an “environmental registration levy” on vehicles with engine capacities over two litres to fund a push into zero-emission vehicles.


Federal and state governments are now looking at ways to get Australians into zero-emission vehicles, including offering subsidies to EV buyers.

A tax on large-capacity internal-combustion engined (ICE) vehicles is similar to the fees calculated and levied according to vehicle emissions that was introduced in 2021 by the New Zealand government.

The issue is currently the subject of rumours – originating from a 3AW radio talkback conversation – but the Victorian Automotive Chamber of Commerce (VACC) received so many calls from concerned dealers and members that it is taking it up with the Victorian government.
VACC CEO Geoff Gwilym said that although his approaches to the Victorian government have met with denials that a new tax is being considered, he believes it could become reality as governments push to meet electors’ demands for action on climate change and for a low-carbon environment.

“We are concerned that governments – state and federal – are using a penalty as a means of getting people into zero-emission vehicles as opposed to policy … as opposed to ensuring that vehicles coming to Australia are priced properly,” he said.

“The federal government has made very bold statements around zero-emission vehicles. It wants, by 2030, 50 per cent of all new vehicles sold to be zero-emission vehicles.

“That’s impossible because the volume of vehicles that we buy in Victoria, for example, is 270,000 a year. That means that in eight years, half of those will be pure electric vehicles. That’s just not plausible.”

Mr Gwilym said the VACC is very concerned that a government using a penalty, as opposed to policy, to get people into zero-emission vehicles will distort the market.

“For example, if you raise levies on four-wheel drives, the four-wheel drive market effectively collapses,” he said.

Govt denies the policy, so we just need to accept them at their word.
A rumour starting on a 3AW talkback show is hardly a source that one might give credence.
Mick