Electric cars?

[3 hound]

There are already lots of chargers in rural areas (on the east coast atleast).

But rural folks will be charging at home the vast majority of the time like most other ev owners, and maybe only need a charger along some of the routes that they travel on during long trips.

In fact EV’s might be much better for rural folks, because they can charge at home, and don’t have to worry about leaving enough fuel in the tank to make it back to town.

Why on earth is charging at home different for rural or urban??

There are naff all chargers in my area, most you have to book into a hotel.

 

[Value Collector]

Why on earth is charging at home different for rural or urban??

There are naff all chargers in my area, most you have to book into a hotel.

I meant better than fueling up with petrol, eg if you live an hour out of town, knowing you can charge at home would have to be better than budgeting your fuel to make sure you have enough to get back to town and fuel up.

You won’t need chargers near your home, so no need to book that motel, just charge at home, you just need chargers on the routes you drive where you will be driving more than 4 hours round trip, and they are probably there you just haven’t noticed them.

 

[3 hound]

I meant better than fueling up with petrol, eg if you live an hour out of town, knowing you can charge at home would have to be better than budgeting your fuel to make sure you have enough to get back to town and fuel up.

You won’t need chargers near your home, so no need to book that motel, just charge at home, you just need chargers on the routes you drive where you will be driving more than 4 hours round trip, and they are probably there you just haven’t noticed them.

TBH most people an hour or more out of town have large wholesaler fuel storage tanks just like they store all their own water. A lot of places until fairly recently had all their own electrical power generation as well.

There are/were no options.

I get your point tho.

 

[Value Collector]

TBH most people an hour or more out of town have large wholesaler fuel storage tanks just like they store all their own water. A lot of places until fairly recently had all their own electrical power generation as well.

There are/were no options.

I get your point tho.

I imagine fuel deliveries would be quite expensive on a per litre basis compared to charging an Ev, so the more electric equipment (including the car) the better of they would be.

 

[Smurf1976]

I was talking to a guy charging a Nissan Leaf yesterday, he went to Collie the charger wasn't working, had to book into the motel to put it on a 10amp gpo overnight, maybe we should change 'range anxiety' to 'in deep $hit time'. ?

Which is an even better illustration of the problem when I point out for others (since I'm sure you're well aware) that a major industry in Collie is.....

Electricity generation.

So you've got Muja C, Muja D, Collie, Bluewaters 1 and Bluewaters 2 (those are all power stations for those not familiar) all nearby but none of them are any help if you can't get it into the car.

There's a need for charging infrastructure yes.

 

[3 hound]

All quiet irrelevant if the millions the average farmer has invested in agricultural machinery doesn't have a viable electric counter option and there is sufficient incentive to swap over.

Please remember this conversation when you waiting in line at the grocery checkout complaining that milk, fruit, veges, meat etc has gone up by 2 cents.

The farmer did not see that increase in revenue only costs.

I imagine fuel deliveries would be quite expensive on a per litre basis compared to charging an Ev, so the more electric equipment (including the car) the better f they would be.

 

[Value Collector]

All quiet irrelevant if the millions the average farmer has invested in agricultural machinery doesn't have a viable electric counter option and there is sufficient incentive to swap over.

Please remember this conversation when you waiting in line at the grocery checkout complaining that milk, fruit, veges, meat etc has gone up by 2 cents.

The farmer did not see that increase in revenue only costs.

I am not sure what you are talking about there, because obviously if there is not a viable piece of electric equipment then they would just buy a petrol or diesel version.

But when the old diesel water pump breaks down and needs to be replaced, they might think of getting an electric one installed, when the old petrol car needs replacing maybe they get an electric one etc etc.

I am not saying they have to go 100% electric next week, just each time the need for more equipment arises, it might help reduce cash out flow if they swapped to electric.

At the end of the day if it meant only needing a fuel delivery every 3 months instead of 2 months that would be a good thing wouldn’t it?

 

[Smurf1976]

I'm not sure what your saying. It is true, people either do or do not have a problem with range anxiety,

I simply dislike the term, that's all.

That's not having a go at you, the term is widely used and seemingly accepted after all, just that it seems rather dismissive of what's actually a very serious problem.

Anxiety is usually defined as a disorder and seen as an over the top, out of proportion concern about a situation. For example someone who's fearful of public speaking - their fear isn't warranted by the situation given that no actual danger exists.

With a vehicle, running out of fuel (of whatever type) is a very real and potentially dangerous situation - describing it as anxiety just seems rather dismissive in my view.

It's a widely used term though so I'll live with it.

 

[3 hound]

I simply dislike the term, that's all.

That's not having a go at you, the term is widely used and seemingly accepted after all, just that it seems rather dismissive of what's actually a very serious problem.

Anxiety is usually defined as a disorder and seen as an over the top, out of proportion concern about a situation. For example someone who's fearful of public speaking - their fear isn't warranted by the situation given that no actual danger exists.

With a vehicle, running out of fuel (of whatever type) is a very real and potentially dangerous situation - describing it as anxiety just seems rather dismissive in my view.

It's a widely used term though so I'll live with it.

I get what you mean, it's like saying you have a neurotic problem you need to get over in order to be more rational, it's quiet condescending. People that use it are out of touch.

 

[Smurf1976]

Why on earth is charging at home different for rural or urban??

Plenty of urban areas, especially in the inner suburbs, where the only parking available is on the street and not necessarily in front of the car owner's own address.

That would be very unusual in a rural situation where the car and at least be parked on the property.

Assuming there's mains power connected, I wouldn't expect someone who lives 50km out of town to have any real difficulty charging an EV. Park it on their property and charge it.

It's someone who lives right in the centre of town with no option to put the car on their own land who has a far greater problem. I can't see councils allowing extension leads to be run across the path etc - one individual might get away with it but if it became common then they'd crack down on it I expect.

 

[3 hound]

I am not sure what you are talking about there, because obviously if there is not a viable piece of electric equipment then they would just buy a petrol or diesel version.

Pumps and cars do not add up to the big investment dollars of farmers, it's massive tractors, bulldozers....etc.

I think the concerns stem from ideology working thru politics, Agriculture has been named and shamed as one the biggest contributors to climate change.

I can foresee a more ideological green government at some point dis-incentivising diesel machinery even before viable options become available. Dumber things have happened when politicians try and build their green street cred.

 

[Value Collector]

Pumps and cars do not add up to the big investment dollars of farmers, it's massive tractors, bulldozers....etc.

I think the concerns stem from ideology working thru politics, Agriculture has been named and shamed as one the biggest contributors to climate change.

I can foresee a more ideological green government at some point dis-incentivising diesel machinery even before viable options become available. Dumber things have happened when politicians try and build their green street cred.

Electric tractors are certainly on their way, but I wouldn’t worry about the government going after farmers diesels, it will happen over time naturally.

 

[divs4ever]

Watch: Electric Bus In Paris Spontaneously Explodes​

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

good thing it wasn't a gas-powered one or Putin would have been blamed

 

[Value Collector]

Watch: Electric Bus In Paris Spontaneously Explodes​

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

good thing it wasn't a gas-powered one or Putin would have been blamed

Did you see this Gas bus explode in Sydney last year? Probably not, only electric vehicles make global news when they catch fire.

But you rest assured electric vehicles are far less likely to catch fire that petrol and gas ones, it’s just we don’t here about them as often because it’s not “News Worthy”, but electric vehicles are a new thing, so negative click bait articles sell.

 

[JohnDe]

Good article on the state of play with charging infrastructure and this is on the East coast where charging infrastructure is great compared to everywhere else in Australia.
It kind of explains extremely well what @JohnDe and myself have been saying about infrastructure needs to be built before incentivising the purchase of E.V's.
I've edited out a lot of the article as it is very long.
https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/...m.au&utm_content=article_3&utm_medium=partner
Driving interstate in an electric vehicle is old hat. We’ve done it, and we’ve proved that range anxiety is no longer a thing.
Between Chargefox’s and the NRMA’s charging infrastructures, it’s no longer a challenge to drive between Australia’s two most populous capital cities using nary a drop of fossil fuel.
Thanks to 350kW UltraFast Charging (UFC) stations and electric vehicles (EV) with real-world touring ranges beyond 350km, it’s easy to hop from Melbourne to Sydney with a travel time close to that of a petrol vehicle, with careful planning.
The Ioniq 5 was fully charged when we left home, its trip computer boasting of a 410km expected range. That wouldn’t be enough to reach our overnight destination, grandpa’s house in Bowral, but based on that I saw no reason we couldn’t do it with just one recharge.
We made it as far as Euroa because the kids had other ideas. Let’s face it, nobody likes sitting in a soiled nappy for hours, and nobody else in the car should have to smell said soiled nappy for hours either.
I was also a tad worried about how fast the Ioniq 5 was chewing through its ions at an indicated 110km/h on a freeway with zero opportunity for energy recovery under brakes. We’d covered 170km and used 45 per cent of the available charge. That’s 32.6kWh at an average of 19.1kWh/100km. At that rate I’d be lucky to get 380km from a full battery.
So, I figured if we had to stop for 10 minutes for an F1-style ultra-fast nappy change, we may as well top up the electrons at Euroa’s UFC at the same time. If it can add 50kW in 18 minutes, then 10 minutes should get us back over 80 per cent.
When we pulled into the Euroa petrol station, one of the 350kW UFC bays was occupied by a BMW iX. No worries, we’ll use the other. Except it was out of order. This turned out to be an ill omen, although I didn’t realise it at the time.
With a cavalier derring-do typical of early onset road-trip delirium, I backed up to the slower but vacant 50kW fast charger and began rejuvenating the Ioniq 5’s battery at 49 of a possible 50kW.
Fifteen minutes later, nappy changed, Macca’s muffins bought and consumed (with optional hash brown inside for added crunch), and we were on the road again. The battery had absorbed 11.5kWh in that time, which got us back to 64 per cent and an expected range of 256km. Barnawartha was only another 120km and one hour up the road, and our arrival time would coincide nicely with lunchtime.
We got to Barnawartha’s bucolic charging station with just 21 per cent battery left, which the Hyundai told us was good for another 68km, not the 136km it should have had based on its Euroa projection. We had averaged 22.2kWh/100km for this purely highway leg.
Luckily for us, the UFC charger at Barnawartha was operational and about to be unoccupied by a black Porsche Taycan that had just sucked its fill. We got chatting to the owners who were heading back to Canberra after going to the Australian F1 Grand Prix.
Meanwhile, the 350kW CCS recharger was feeding the Ioniq 5 at a peak of 148kW, which seemed a bit stingy to me. I didn’t pay it much thought, however, because it promised 22min to 80 per cent, 46min to 100 per cent.
It’s fair to say our picnic was a leisurely one, giving the Ioniq 5 time to suck down 60.5kWh of power at a cost of $24.19. The battery was back to 100 per cent and our expected range said 390km. Bowral was still 460km away, so another stop would be needed. Goulburn in 385km, maybe, and then we could shoot for grandpa’s place and be there in time for dinner with an almost full Ioniq 5 and two tired grandkids.
Easy. Not.
After 180km we’d used up half the battery. When I say we, I mean my wife because it was her turn to drive. She’d averaged 19.9kWh per 100km, which is marginally better than my last leg, but still not the stuff a 420km range is made of, and not enough to reach Goulburn.
So, Gundagai here we come.
Finding the chargers in Gundagai is not easy. They’re hidden behind the big Oliver's fast food joint, out the back near the loading dock, which means driving down a dirt road churned up by delivery trucks when it’s wet, leaving ruts big enough to swallow a small Tesla.
There are two ranks of chargers, one dedicated to Elon Musk’s faithful and another to all other (heretical?) EVangelists. When we pulled in, the two UFC bays were out of order, and even had two technicians looking at their innards in a perplexed 'Do we cut the red wire or the green one?' way.
Of the two 50kW not-Ultra but still Fast Chargers, one of those was out of order too. And the other was occupied by the same black Porsche Taycan we’d met at Barnawartha. This time there was no EV-tribe camaraderie and no warm charger-side chats. They stayed within the Taycan’s confines, windows up, looking intently at their phones.
Silently rebuffed, I checked the charger’s readout. It said their car had 20 per cent and had only latched on five minutes ago. They were going to be a while. Not even the sight of myself and my wife standing around with two grumpy kids sick to death after five hours in car seat restraints could get them to lower their windows and engage us in conversation.
So, rather than hang around in a muddy loading bay complete with algae-covered water feature, we decided to make a run for Jugiong in the hope that its 50kW charger was available.
Unlike the Chargefox app, the PlugShare app that lists NRMA’s charging points as well doesn’t have real-time occupancy, unless the user chooses to ‘check-in’. Previous check-ins suggested the station was operational because another Ioniq 5 had topped up there earlier in the day.
When we got there 30 minutes later, we found a red Tesla plugged in and a grey Hyundai Kona Electric parked alongside, waiting its turn.
It was now 3:20pm, seven hours after we had left home. The excitement of our pioneering EV family road trip was rapidly wearing off. We were 200km from our destination, but only had enough battery for 107km – if the Ioniq 5’s range estimations could be trusted.
We waited. And waited.
Our spirits lifted when the Kona got sick of waiting and took off. I don’t know where they charged instead, but I hope they made it.
Shortly after that, a couple walked over towards the Tesla, and I experienced elation akin to winning the lottery. If the Kona had waited they could be plugging in now. But their impatience was our gain.
“We’re going to be another 40 minutes,” the Tesla owner told me.
It’s hard to be angry when they were here first, but I wasn’t happy. My two angelic boys were now doing demon impersonations, screaming like banshees demanding to be unleashed from this cross-country hell.
Their vocal exhortations did little to sway the Tesla owner’s commitment to maintain station. He went back across the road to the coffee shop, presumably to have another ethically sourced chai latte.
My wife and I debated heading for Yass, a further 60km away. But what guarantee would we have that (a) the Ioniq 5 would make it, (b) the station would be operational, and (c) available?
Mercifully he detached after 30 minutes, not 40, for which two frazzled parents were grateful, and said so. If it sounded insincere, it wasn’t meant that way and I apologise in retrospect. By then we were happy for any small mercies because we knew dinner in Bowral was not going to happen.
At 4:00pm we plugged in and started recharging. By 4:26pm we had taken 18.5kW on board and had 57 per cent charge. If Hyundai’s 420km range claim was to be believed that should get us 240km. Bowral was 221km away.
I didn’t trust it, so we waited some more.
By now, the bustling tourist town of Jugiong had become a ghost town. The Long Track Pantry had closed up and the staff gone home. The only people left in town were a dishevelled couple with two tired kids and their Ioniq 5 still slurping juice at 41kW/h.
At 5:00pm we pulled the plug on the charger and on Jugiong. The Ioniq 5 had consumed 35kWh and was back up to 79 per cent. We loaded the kids back into the car and returned to the Hume.
Now we had a different problem. As any parent of an infant knows, the hours between 5:00pm and 7:00pm are dominated by feeding, bathing, playing and then bed.
When 7:30pm finally comes around in our house, you will find my wife and I sitting on the couch in front of the TV, some form of alcohol close at hand and battle-weary looks on our faces, silently suffering through offspring-induced post-traumatic stress disorder.
Not on this day, however. Every kilometre between Jugiong and Bowral was travelled in fearful anticipation of an infant hollering with an insatiable hunger. As we left Jugiong, they were both quiet and we prayed it would stay that way for as long as possible. We knew the car would make it to Bowral, but we also knew the kids wouldn’t without being fed.
We stopped at Goulburn’s UFC, which also happens to be right next to a McDonald's. My wife fed our eight-month-old in the front seat while the Hyundai fed itself at 183kW and I took my older son to Macca's for his first-ever fast food. At 6:35pm we unplugged with 85 per cent charge and finished the trip in the dark, with two back-seat demons now snoozing contentedly.
We pulled into Bowral at 7:45pm, 11 long hours after we left Melbourne. We had covered 768km at an average speed of 70km/h with an average consumption of 21.1kWh/100km. At best that’s a 350km range. At Chargefox’s 40c/kW our fuel cost just under $65. By my estimate, a petrol-powered car would have done it in two hours less at a cost of $120.

That was a good read, thanks.

Points out and confirms the main issue and where money should be spent - "infrastructure"

"This trip proved to me that while range anxiety is no longer the issue, charger anxiety is." "Interstate EV travel is possible, but until the infrastructure catches up, it’s far from enjoyable."

 

[Value Collector]

Autonomous electric tractor.

 

[divs4ever]

have been 200 metres away from a diesel tractor that blew up and was rocked by that blast ( the owner/driver was mostly unharmed because he was trying to extinguish his burning wool jumper at the time by swimming in the dam .. fully clothed )

yep things go BANG , but a BIG problem when it happens in busy parts of the city/town ( i can't believe those Sydneysiders stayed so close for so long .. oh wait i remember them walking in front of Greyhound buses while reading phone texts .. just another day in Sydney it seems , not so news-worthy )

 

[Smurf1976]

Did you see this Gas bus explode in Sydney last year? Probably not, only electric vehicles make global news when they catch fire.

I used to travel home on a (diesel) bus that routinely had flames coming out the exhaust as we slowly progressed up the hill.

It did stop following motorists tailgating, very effective for that.

Always thought it would end badly someday but never did.

Going back even further, the bus I went to school on had the engine up the front, inside the bus, between the driver and the door under a metal cover which used to get seriously hot. Primary school kids having to walk past that hot metal box to get off the bus - someone would have a fit about that these days.

ICE's have their quirks that we've managed to live with so I'm sure that any issues with EV's can be worked around.

 

[divs4ever]

now days they have a fit if the air-conditioning fails

 

[Value Collector]

have been 200 metres away from a diesel tractor that blew up and was rocked by that blast ( the owner/driver was mostly unharmed because he was trying to extinguish his burning wool jumper at the time by swimming in the dam .. fully clothed )

yep things go BANG , but a BIG problem when it happens in busy parts of the city/town ( i can't believe those Sydneysiders stayed so close for so long .. oh wait i remember them walking in front of Greyhound buses while reading phone texts .. just another day in Sydney it seems , not so news-worthy )

Yep, I guess when ever we concentrate and store a lot of chemical energy in vehicle there is a small chance it will suffer an unplanned rapid dissipation.