Electric cars?

[JohnDe]

Unfortunately Australian culture has degenerated such that a vehicle stuck on the side of the road now means free parts and vandalism.

I suggest EV batteries will be a prize target.

Not as easy to remove as a catalytic converter

Police warning as thieves target car exhausts worth more than gold

Modern motor vehicles have exhaust systems with precious metals worth more than gold. Now thieves are targeting parked cars, leaving motorists stranded and with big insurance bills.

www.drive.com.au

 

[sptrawler]

If there's one term I hate in all this, it's "range anxiety".

Either there's a problem in any given situation or there isn't. If there is well then it's far worse than "anxiety" when the vehicle actually does run out of power.

I just see it as somewhat dismissive as a term since the issue's extremely real if it occurs, it's not some imaginary thing that's all in the mind.

I know it's a widely used term but personally I'm not keen on it.

I was talking to a guy charging a Nissan Leaf yesterday, he went to Collie the charger wasn't working, had to book into the motel to put it on a 10amp gpo overnight, maybe we should change 'range anxiety' to 'in deep $hit time'. ?
I posted the charging outlets map earlier, which shows 'range anxiety' isn't an issue, if you are lucky enough to live on the far East coast, if you travel anywhere West or NW of Adelaide, Well?

 

[3 hound]

Not as easy to remove as a catalytic converter

Police warning as thieves target car exhausts worth more than gold

Modern motor vehicles have exhaust systems with precious metals worth more than gold. Now thieves are targeting parked cars, leaving motorists stranded and with big insurance bills.

www.drive.com.au

How do you know cutting a metal element out of a car exhaust system using power tools is harder than stealing an interchangeable battery designed to be removed easily?

Also if EV take over there won't be catalytic converters to steal.

 

[qldfrog]

How do you know cutting a metal element out of a car exhaust system using power tools is harder than stealing an interchangeable battery designed to be removed easily?

Also if EV take over there won't be catalytic converters to steal.

they will put the car on a float and dump the shell in a canal...well rehearsed in Europe.Where do you think the Ukrainian oligarches money come from..ooops not PC ;-)

 

[JohnDe]

How do you know cutting a metal element out of a car exhaust system using power tools is harder than stealing an interchangeable battery designed to be removed easily?

Also if EV take over there won't be catalytic converters to steal.

Maybe it has something to do with me being in the Automotive trade.

For you I'll make a list of how both can be done.

Car with exhaust (no jack) -

1. Look for car high enough to crawl under
2. Crawl under car with electric cutter from bunnings
3. Cut and remove catalytic convertor
4. Carry part to transport.
5. Total time 3-5 minutes from getting out of car.

Car with exhaust (jack required) -

1. Find car or cars in deserted carpark
2. Bring hydraulic lifting jack
3. Lift car on one side & crawl under with electric cutter from bunnings
4. Cut and remove catalytic convertor
5. Carry part to transport, go back for hydraulic jack.
6. Total time 5-7 minutes.

Car with battery -

1. Look for car with interchangeable battery (damn they're rare)
2. Have one or two friends for help
3. Bring hydraulic lifting jack, may need two.
4. Bring electric impact wrench and socket set.
5. Lift side of car, try find location that doesn't interfere with securing bolt locations.
6. Remove securing bolts
7. Lift other side of car and remove bolts.
8. Ensure battery pack is dropped evenly so does not jam.
9. With help. drag battery pack from under car from side if space available, if not
10. Lift front or rear of vehicle to slide battery pack out.
11. With friend/s carry battery pack to Ute, go back for hydraulic jack and tools.
12. Total time 30 minutes, if we are lucky.

 

[3 hound]

Maybe it has something to do with me being in the Automotive trade.

For you I'll make a list of how both can be done.

Car with exhaust (no jack) -

1. Look for car high enough to crawl under
2. Crawl under car with electric cutter from bunnings
3. Cut and remove catalytic convertor
4. Carry part to transport.
5. Total time 3-5 minutes from getting out of car.

Car with exhaust (jack required) -

1. Find car or cars in deserted carpark
2. Bring hydraulic lifting jack
3. Lift car on one side & crawl under with electric cutter from bunnings
4. Cut and remove catalytic convertor
5. Carry part to transport, go back for hydraulic jack.
6. Total time 5-7 minutes.

Car with battery -

1. Look for car with interchangeable battery (damn they're rare)
2. Have one or two friends for help
3. Bring hydraulic lifting jack, may need two.
4. Bring electric impact wrench and socket set.
5. Lift side of car, try find location that doesn't interfere with securing bolt locations.
6. Remove securing bolts
7. Lift other side of car and remove bolts.
8. Ensure battery pack is dropped evenly so does not jam.
9. With help. drag battery pack from under car from side if space available, if not
10. Lift front or rear of vehicle to slide battery pack out.
11. With friend/s carry battery pack to Ute, go back for hydraulic jack and tools.
12. Total time 30 minutes, if we are lucky.

Your battery does not sound very interchangeable which is what is being discussed.

 

[JohnDe]

Your battery does not sound very interchangeable which is what is being discussed.

Tell me how long it took you to remove an interchangeable battery in a carpark with no hoist.

 

[sptrawler]

An electric car battery weighs about 1,000 lbs or 454 kilograms
Here is a picture of a Hyundai Kona traction battery.

 

[3 hound]

An electric car battery weighs about 1,000 lbs or 454 kilograms
Here is a picture of a Hyundai Kona traction battery.

View attachment 141175

Is this the level of interchangeability people spruking EV's are talking about for quick battery swaps.

Good luck selling that concept.

 

[JohnDe]

Is this the level of interchangeability people spruking EV's are talking about for quick battery swaps.

Good luck selling that concept.

There's not that much "spruking".

Tesla look into battery swaps early on when developing the Roadster and came to the conclusion that creating a fast charging network was the best way to get people traveling across states with an EV.

 

[sptrawler]

They are using them in China, I could see it being used in fleets, taxis etc where they want the car off the road for a minimum time, easier to have spare batteries than have the car off the road charging.
But for the general public who have access to charging infrastructure it wouldn't make sense IMO. Having battery packs that use the same architecture, is already being adopted by car companies sharing platforms, which would reduce development costs massively.

 

[JohnDe]

EV profitability to exceed that of ICEs from 2025, says BMW

Once a ‘below average’ contributor to the business, BMW’s finance head tells Freddie Holmes that EVs now present an opportunity to boost profit-per-vehicle

Names such as Tesla, Renault and Nissan are often considered the industry’s pioneers in electrification, taking a leap of faith to push battery electric vehicles (BEVs) into the mass market. However, BMW was also one of the major catalysts of the BEV movement, launching the i3 hatchback in 2013 and later the i8 hybrid supercar in 2014. Although both models sat in different segments to most other BEVs at the time, they have acted as a springboard for BMW’s next movements.

The automaker is due to launch a raft of new fully-electric models across multiple segments, and has already enjoyed strong sales for its latest offerings: the i4 coupe, iX3 SUV and larger iX SUV. Most recently, it revealed the i7—an electric version of the flagship 7-Series—which will compete squarely in the luxury corner of the market. A recent expansion of its operations in China, the world’s largest BEV market, could prove a potent combination for sales in future.

EV profitability to exceed that of ICEs from 2025, says BMW | Automotive World

Once a ‘below average’ contributor to the business, BMW’s finance head tells Freddie Holmes that EVs now present an opportunity to boost profit-per-vehicle

www.automotiveworld.com

 

[3 hound]

EV battery swap = specialist refit.

Gotcha.

 

[rederob]

EV battery swap = specialist refit.

Gotcha.

Nonsense.
Battery swapping stations are exactly that, and they take about 3 minutes:

@JohnDe explained the steps for any novice to replace an EV's battery.
CATL - the world's largest battery manufacturer - is now teaming with other automakers to standardise battery packing for swapping out.

 

[divs4ever]

Tata, India's electric vehicle king, takes a frugal road less travelled

Tata, India's electric vehicle king, takes a frugal road less travelled By Reuters

Tata, India's electric vehicle king, takes a frugal road less travelled

www.investing.com

 

[sptrawler]

Good article on the state of play with charging infrastructure and this is on the East coast where charging infrastructure is great compared to everywhere else in Australia.
It kind of explains extremely well what @JohnDe and myself have been saying about infrastructure needs to be built before incentivising the purchase of E.V's.
I've edited out a lot of the article as it is very long.
https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/...m.au&utm_content=article_3&utm_medium=partner
Driving interstate in an electric vehicle is old hat. We’ve done it, and we’ve proved that range anxiety is no longer a thing.
Between Chargefox’s and the NRMA’s charging infrastructures, it’s no longer a challenge to drive between Australia’s two most populous capital cities using nary a drop of fossil fuel.
Thanks to 350kW UltraFast Charging (UFC) stations and electric vehicles (EV) with real-world touring ranges beyond 350km, it’s easy to hop from Melbourne to Sydney with a travel time close to that of a petrol vehicle, with careful planning.
The Ioniq 5 was fully charged when we left home, its trip computer boasting of a 410km expected range. That wouldn’t be enough to reach our overnight destination, grandpa’s house in Bowral, but based on that I saw no reason we couldn’t do it with just one recharge.
We made it as far as Euroa because the kids had other ideas. Let’s face it, nobody likes sitting in a soiled nappy for hours, and nobody else in the car should have to smell said soiled nappy for hours either.
I was also a tad worried about how fast the Ioniq 5 was chewing through its ions at an indicated 110km/h on a freeway with zero opportunity for energy recovery under brakes. We’d covered 170km and used 45 per cent of the available charge. That’s 32.6kWh at an average of 19.1kWh/100km. At that rate I’d be lucky to get 380km from a full battery.
So, I figured if we had to stop for 10 minutes for an F1-style ultra-fast nappy change, we may as well top up the electrons at Euroa’s UFC at the same time. If it can add 50kW in 18 minutes, then 10 minutes should get us back over 80 per cent.
When we pulled into the Euroa petrol station, one of the 350kW UFC bays was occupied by a BMW iX. No worries, we’ll use the other. Except it was out of order. This turned out to be an ill omen, although I didn’t realise it at the time.
With a cavalier derring-do typical of early onset road-trip delirium, I backed up to the slower but vacant 50kW fast charger and began rejuvenating the Ioniq 5’s battery at 49 of a possible 50kW.
Fifteen minutes later, nappy changed, Macca’s muffins bought and consumed (with optional hash brown inside for added crunch), and we were on the road again. The battery had absorbed 11.5kWh in that time, which got us back to 64 per cent and an expected range of 256km. Barnawartha was only another 120km and one hour up the road, and our arrival time would coincide nicely with lunchtime.
We got to Barnawartha’s bucolic charging station with just 21 per cent battery left, which the Hyundai told us was good for another 68km, not the 136km it should have had based on its Euroa projection. We had averaged 22.2kWh/100km for this purely highway leg.
Luckily for us, the UFC charger at Barnawartha was operational and about to be unoccupied by a black Porsche Taycan that had just sucked its fill. We got chatting to the owners who were heading back to Canberra after going to the Australian F1 Grand Prix.
Meanwhile, the 350kW CCS recharger was feeding the Ioniq 5 at a peak of 148kW, which seemed a bit stingy to me. I didn’t pay it much thought, however, because it promised 22min to 80 per cent, 46min to 100 per cent.
It’s fair to say our picnic was a leisurely one, giving the Ioniq 5 time to suck down 60.5kWh of power at a cost of $24.19. The battery was back to 100 per cent and our expected range said 390km. Bowral was still 460km away, so another stop would be needed. Goulburn in 385km, maybe, and then we could shoot for grandpa’s place and be there in time for dinner with an almost full Ioniq 5 and two tired grandkids.
Easy. Not.
After 180km we’d used up half the battery. When I say we, I mean my wife because it was her turn to drive. She’d averaged 19.9kWh per 100km, which is marginally better than my last leg, but still not the stuff a 420km range is made of, and not enough to reach Goulburn.
So, Gundagai here we come.
Finding the chargers in Gundagai is not easy. They’re hidden behind the big Oliver's fast food joint, out the back near the loading dock, which means driving down a dirt road churned up by delivery trucks when it’s wet, leaving ruts big enough to swallow a small Tesla.
There are two ranks of chargers, one dedicated to Elon Musk’s faithful and another to all other (heretical?) EVangelists. When we pulled in, the two UFC bays were out of order, and even had two technicians looking at their innards in a perplexed 'Do we cut the red wire or the green one?' way.
Of the two 50kW not-Ultra but still Fast Chargers, one of those was out of order too. And the other was occupied by the same black Porsche Taycan we’d met at Barnawartha. This time there was no EV-tribe camaraderie and no warm charger-side chats. They stayed within the Taycan’s confines, windows up, looking intently at their phones.
Silently rebuffed, I checked the charger’s readout. It said their car had 20 per cent and had only latched on five minutes ago. They were going to be a while. Not even the sight of myself and my wife standing around with two grumpy kids sick to death after five hours in car seat restraints could get them to lower their windows and engage us in conversation.
So, rather than hang around in a muddy loading bay complete with algae-covered water feature, we decided to make a run for Jugiong in the hope that its 50kW charger was available.
Unlike the Chargefox app, the PlugShare app that lists NRMA’s charging points as well doesn’t have real-time occupancy, unless the user chooses to ‘check-in’. Previous check-ins suggested the station was operational because another Ioniq 5 had topped up there earlier in the day.
When we got there 30 minutes later, we found a red Tesla plugged in and a grey Hyundai Kona Electric parked alongside, waiting its turn.
It was now 3:20pm, seven hours after we had left home. The excitement of our pioneering EV family road trip was rapidly wearing off. We were 200km from our destination, but only had enough battery for 107km – if the Ioniq 5’s range estimations could be trusted.
We waited. And waited.
Our spirits lifted when the Kona got sick of waiting and took off. I don’t know where they charged instead, but I hope they made it.
Shortly after that, a couple walked over towards the Tesla, and I experienced elation akin to winning the lottery. If the Kona had waited they could be plugging in now. But their impatience was our gain.
“We’re going to be another 40 minutes,” the Tesla owner told me.
It’s hard to be angry when they were here first, but I wasn’t happy. My two angelic boys were now doing demon impersonations, screaming like banshees demanding to be unleashed from this cross-country hell.
Their vocal exhortations did little to sway the Tesla owner’s commitment to maintain station. He went back across the road to the coffee shop, presumably to have another ethically sourced chai latte.
My wife and I debated heading for Yass, a further 60km away. But what guarantee would we have that (a) the Ioniq 5 would make it, (b) the station would be operational, and (c) available?
Mercifully he detached after 30 minutes, not 40, for which two frazzled parents were grateful, and said so. If it sounded insincere, it wasn’t meant that way and I apologise in retrospect. By then we were happy for any small mercies because we knew dinner in Bowral was not going to happen.
At 4:00pm we plugged in and started recharging. By 4:26pm we had taken 18.5kW on board and had 57 per cent charge. If Hyundai’s 420km range claim was to be believed that should get us 240km. Bowral was 221km away.
I didn’t trust it, so we waited some more.
By now, the bustling tourist town of Jugiong had become a ghost town. The Long Track Pantry had closed up and the staff gone home. The only people left in town were a dishevelled couple with two tired kids and their Ioniq 5 still slurping juice at 41kW/h.
At 5:00pm we pulled the plug on the charger and on Jugiong. The Ioniq 5 had consumed 35kWh and was back up to 79 per cent. We loaded the kids back into the car and returned to the Hume.
Now we had a different problem. As any parent of an infant knows, the hours between 5:00pm and 7:00pm are dominated by feeding, bathing, playing and then bed.
When 7:30pm finally comes around in our house, you will find my wife and I sitting on the couch in front of the TV, some form of alcohol close at hand and battle-weary looks on our faces, silently suffering through offspring-induced post-traumatic stress disorder.
Not on this day, however. Every kilometre between Jugiong and Bowral was travelled in fearful anticipation of an infant hollering with an insatiable hunger. As we left Jugiong, they were both quiet and we prayed it would stay that way for as long as possible. We knew the car would make it to Bowral, but we also knew the kids wouldn’t without being fed.
We stopped at Goulburn’s UFC, which also happens to be right next to a McDonald's. My wife fed our eight-month-old in the front seat while the Hyundai fed itself at 183kW and I took my older son to Macca's for his first-ever fast food. At 6:35pm we unplugged with 85 per cent charge and finished the trip in the dark, with two back-seat demons now snoozing contentedly.
We pulled into Bowral at 7:45pm, 11 long hours after we left Melbourne. We had covered 768km at an average speed of 70km/h with an average consumption of 21.1kWh/100km. At best that’s a 350km range. At Chargefox’s 40c/kW our fuel cost just under $65. By my estimate, a petrol-powered car would have done it in two hours less at a cost of $120.

 

[Value Collector]

I was talking to a guy charging a Nissan Leaf yesterday, he went to Collie the charger wasn't working, had to book into the motel to put it on a 10amp gpo overnight, maybe we should change 'range anxiety' to 'in deep $hit time'. ?
I posted the charging outlets map earlier, which shows 'range anxiety' isn't an issue, if you are lucky enough to live on the far East coast, if you travel anywhere West or NW of Adelaide, Well?

It will come, just need more brave early adopters to get Ev’s and the infrastructure will follow.

 

[sptrawler]

It will come, just need more brave early adopters to get Ev’s and the infrastructure will follow.

I am a brave early adopter and luckily I have ordered a car, that will get me as far as I need to go and back on one charge.
But I'm also retired and am in no hurry to get anywhere.
As @JohnDe and myself say, why should the Government subsidise the purchase of E.V's to increase the uptake, when they could be using that money to put in charging infrastructure, as the E.V uptake is accelerating anyway?
Having more and more people stranded due to insufficient charging, wont do much to enamour E.V's to the general public IMO.

 

[3 hound]

It will come, just need more brave early adopters to get Ev’s and the infrastructure will follow.

So how many early adopters in rural areas will it take to get infrastructure in place?

What do rural folks do with their EV's while waiting for infrastructure to be built?

 

[Value Collector]

So how many early adopters in rural areas will it take to get infrastructure in place?

What do rural folks do with their EV's while waiting for infrastructure to be built?

There are already lots of chargers in rural areas (on the east coast atleast).

But rural folks will be charging at home the vast majority of the time like most other ev owners, and maybe only need a charger along some of the routes that they travel on during long trips.

In fact EV’s might be much better for rural folks, because they can charge at home, and don’t have to worry about leaving enough fuel in the tank to make it back to town.