Electric cars?

[JohnDe]

Spent a day and night at Hamilton Island, 90% of the transport is EVs.

 

[Telamelo]

Do not worry too much, the EVs will not be there
not enough lithium..again facts not narrative

Electric vehicle targets ‘impossible’ without changes to lithium pipeline

West has been ‘slow’ to challenge China’s dominance of supply chains, says Australian producer

www.ft.com

Until new battery tech is found, the ev pipe dream will not happen, at least not on a world scale

RE: "Until new battery tech is found, the EV pipe dream will not happen"

That's where high grade/high purity Manganese comes into the equation as it will revolutionise battery tech for EV's imo

 

[Value Collector]

RE: "Until new battery tech is found, the EV pipe dream will not happen"

That's where high grade/high purity Manganese comes into the equation as it will revolutionise battery tech for EV's imo

I think anyone that thinks Ev’s are a pipe dream has had their head in the sand.

 

[rederob]

A bit of common sense starting to evolve in the E.V space.

BMW joins Toyota in denouncing a fully electric future

BMW's CEO has cautioned against exclusively selling electric cars, warning it will constrain consumer choice and cause supply-chain issues.

www.drive.com.au

From the article:
Mr Zipse (pictured above) said mandating all vehicles to become electric could be a counter-productive measure if the unintended consequence was that people held onto their older, higher-polluting petrol or diesel cars rather than upgrading to a more efficient one.
"If someone cannot buy an (electric vehicle) for some reason but needs a car, would you rather propose he continues to drive his old car forever?” Mr Zipse was quoted by news agency Reuters as saying.

The BMW executive's candid comments follow those of Mr Toyoda, who said Toyota's strategy for achieving carbon neutrality would involve hybrid cars, as well as pure-electric vehicles.
“We are living in a diversified world and in an era in which it is hard to predict the future,” Mr Toyoda (pictured below) said in December 2021.
“Therefore it is difficult to make everyone happy with a one-size-fits-all option. That is why Toyota wants to prepare as many options as possible for our customers around the world.”

Mr Zipse has been consistent in voicing his concerns about prematurely phasing out petrol and diesel engines, telling politicians in Germany in February 2022 that shutting down production would not benefit consumers or the environment.
“The largest market segment in absolute terms by a wide margin in Germany, but also in Europe and worldwide, is the internal combustion engine. Before you simply shut something like that down within eight or ten years, you have to know well what you’re doing,” Mr Zipse said at the time.
“It would be harmful to simply give up a technology in which you have a global market position without need. I don’t think that would help the climate or anyone else.”

Locally, Toyota Australia executives have shared similar sentiments, cautioning governments against leaving the masses behind in the push for electric vehicles.

Sean Hanley, the sales and marketing boss of Toyota Australia, said in January 2022 the company would retain its commitment to hybrid vehicles in tandem with its development of electric cars, suggesting hybrids were an affordable low-emissions alternative for consumers.

A select few car executives that comment on the future of the motor vehicle industry have done their homework, and the leaders in this regard are Musk and Herbert Diess (VW Group), plus a bunch of Chinese NEV entrepreneurs.

First, I have yet to read anyone mandating EVs. That's separate from cities excluding FF vehicles from entry after specified dates, or nations excluding new FF sales from specified dates.
Second, the vehicle industry's global manufacturing supply chain is not disappearing, so theoretical future annual production should continue to accommodate the present natural vehicle turnover rate. That is, Zipse's idea that people will have to keep older vehicles is a nonsense.
Third, legacy auto have created their own problem in not pivoting earlier to the NEV concept, and BEVs in particular. The writing has been on the wall for many years and it impossible for legacy auto to have not seen that Tesla was unable to meet demand despite having very few offerings and relatively expensive ones at that.
Zipse and his legacy auto colleagues could have collaborated years ago to confront the CO2 challenge of ICE vehicles and their climate warming potential, but he still chooses to bury his head in the sand along with numerous other auto execs. If legacy auto was half smart, and wanted to cling to an ICE vehicle concept, then to counter Musk they should have spent billions on engines that burnt hydrogen instead of gasoline. IMHO it's not too late and light hydrogen energy may well gazump heavy batteries in vehicles in the long run anyway. Heavy transport operators appear to have done their sums and worked out that hydrogen gives them significant additional load capacity over batteries, and they just need Nikola or similar to get their act together and deliver a hydrogen "engine" that will do the job.

The vehicle manufacturing landscape is presently doing an about turn. While over the past decade many legacy auto manufacturers moved a lot of production to China, Chinese manufacturers are now actively planning or building production facilities overseas.

 

[sptrawler]

I think they are pretty spot on with the one size doesn't fit all, as you say hydrogen will play its part also, what I took from the article was that they are just warning against legislating ICE engines out of existence when there is still a requirement for them in some parts of the World.
The Third World Countries will lag behind the West in changing over to E.V's and I think the manufacturers are saying if it isn't economical for us to make ICE engines or they aren't allowed to make ICE engines, it may have unintended consequences.
I may be wrong and maybe you're right, they just want to keep spending money on a product that costs more to produce and to warrant. It doesn't sound like an intelligent plan, but hey who knows.

 

[rederob]

I may be wrong and maybe you're right, they just want to keep spending money on a product that costs more to produce and to warrant. It doesn't sound like an intelligent plan, but hey who knows.

Given that the heart of any company is its product, then its plan is to stay in business by ensuring its product remains in demand and is competitive in the marketplace of its consumer base.
The present advantage of ICEVs is they are cheaper to produce because batteries cost more than ICEs, and their infrastructure is in place.
Thereafter just about everything is a disadvantage, and most important of these is that ownership costs - that is, the benefit to the consumer over time - negates the selling price advantage.
What is remarkable here is that a trend is firmly in place, and that trend is seeing ICEV's share of all vehicle sales tumbling month after month as noted in the below chart showing that in 2022 more than one car in ten sold will be electric:

 

[sptrawler]

Given that the heart of any company is its product, then its plan is to stay in business by ensuring its product remains in demand and is competitive in the marketplace of its consumer base.
The present advantage of ICEVs is they are cheaper to produce because batteries cost more than ICEs, and their infrastructure is in place.
Thereafter just about everything is a disadvantage, and most important of these is that ownership costs - that is, the benefit to the consumer over time - negates the selling price advantage.
What is remarkable here is that a trend is firmly in place, and that trend is seeing ICEV's share of all vehicle sales tumbling month after month as noted in the below chart showing that in 2022 more than one car in ten sold will be electric.

I think we are talking about different things, in first world countries E.V uptake will be huge, third world countries with third world electrical infrastructure I'm not as convinced as you are, but as I said who knows.
I'm not as invested in my opinion as some and as the outcome doesn't affect me, I'm not bothered either way a bit like the election really. ?

 

[rederob]

I think we are talking about different things, in first world countries E.V uptake will be huge, third world countries with third world electrical infrastructure I'm not as convinced as you are, but as I said who knows.

Car ownership in third world countries is low, even more so for NEW car ownership. However, their take-up of electric bikes, trikes/rickshaws and motor scooters is increasing as this does not require EV charging infrastructure. Swap and go battery stations for motor scooters would speed this up.

From what I can tell, the sale of used cars from modern societies to less developed nations will continue as usual. At some point this will also mean the used cars will be NEVs, and maybe by then charging infrastructure will have started to roll out.

Here's what I found amusing in you link, "... the automotive industry is increasingly of the view that electric cars should be an option alongside other technology such as hybrids, and super-efficient petrol and diesel engines." I think the word "legacy" was missing. The old guard is being quickly replaced!

Legacy auto is dying. If the third world has demand for new ICEVs then maybe that can be a new market for them and they will be resurrected (for a brief period).

 

[qldfrog]

Ooops

Somebody summoned their Tesla at an airport and it crashed into a $2 million jet | Boing Boing

Marvel to the spectacle of a driverless Tesla as it rolls across an airport runway and hits the back of a jet, causing it to pivot around. So far, there are no details about who owns the self-crash…

boingboing.net

 

[basilio]

Next new idea. Travelling around Australia in your Telsa and bringing your own printed solar panels to power the trip.
The solar panels cost $10 a square metre.

Printed solar panels to power Tesla on Australian road trip​

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By E&T editorial staff

Published Wednesday, April 20, 2022

Scientists in Australia are testing printed solar panels they will use to power a Tesla on a 15,100km journey beginning in September. They hope the road trip will get the public thinking about steps to help avert climate change.

The Charge Around Australia project will power a Tesla with 18 of the team’s printed solar panels, each 18m long, rolling them out beside the vehicle to soak up sunlight when the car needs charging.

Paul Dastoor, the inventor of the printed solar panels, said the University of Newcastle (New South Wales) team would be testing not only the endurance of the panels but their potential performance for other applications.

“This is actually an ideal testbed to give us information about how we go about using and powering technology in other remote locations, for example, in space,” Dastoor told news agency Reuters in the town of Gosforth, north of Sydney.

Printed solar panels to power Tesla on Australian road trip

Scientists in Australia are testing printed solar panels they will use to power a Tesla on a 15,100km journey beginning in September. They hope the road trip will get the public thinking about steps to help avert climate change.

eandt.theiet.org

 

[Value Collector]

I think they are pretty spot on with the one size doesn't fit all, as you say hydrogen will play its part also, what I took from the article was that they are just warning against legislating ICE engines out of existence when there is still a requirement for them in some parts of the World.
The Third World Countries will lag behind the West in changing over to E.V's and I think the manufacturers are saying if it isn't economical for us to make ICE engines or they aren't allowed to make ICE engines, it may have unintended consequences.
I may be wrong and maybe you're right, they just want to keep spending money on a product that costs more to produce and to warrant. It doesn't sound like an intelligent plan, but hey who knows.

Some countries will be able leap frog petrol cars and go straight to electric, a bit like developing countries are avoiding constructing land line phone systems and leap frogging directly to mobile phone systems.

 

[sptrawler]

So countries will be able leap from petrol cars and go straight to electric, a bit like developing countries are avoiding constructing land line phone systems and leap frogging directly to mobile phone systems.

Things are definitely moving along quickly, it will be an interesting journey. I'm just happy I'm in Australia and comfortable enough to be able watch it unfold, a bit like you guys on the East coast where the charging infrastructure covers the whole coastline.

 

[sptrawler]

Ampol to start rolling out 150KW E.V charging stations across the country.

https://www.ampol.com.au/about-ampol/news-and-media/ampcharge-launch
The AmpCharge rollout will commence with five pilot sites at Ampol service stations in Carseldine QLD, Alexandria NSW, Northmead NSW, Altona North VIC, and Belmont WA, coming online in June and July 2022. These sites will feature AmpCharge chargers supplied with renewable energy, or covered by green certificates, and will be capable of delivering charge to a BEV at up to 150kw, with each site having the capacity to charge at least two BEVs concurrently. The sites will also feature solar panel systems and battery storage provisions.

The five pilot sites form part of an initial roll out to approximately 120 sites by October 2023 as part of an agreement with the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) announced in July last year, with ARENA providing partial funding through the Future Fuels Fund.

 

[mullokintyre]

Just had a test drive of the Volvo recharge 40.
most impressed, plenty of room inside, stunning acceleration, extremely quiet, beautifully finished and
very easy for old buggers to get in and out of.
cons the range is not great, I find the sunroof useless , and there is no spare tire.
All in all thoughts were mostly positive.
Would have bought it on the spot, but the wife wants to drive a few others first.
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

Just had a test drive of the Volvo recharge 40.
most impressed, plenty of room inside, stunning acceleration, extremely quiet, beautifully finished and
very easy for old buggers to get in and out of.
cons the range is not great, I find the sunroof useless , and there is no spare tire.
All in all thoughts were mostly positive.
Would have bought it on the spot, but the wife wants to drive a few others first.
Mick

Which one?
Recharge Plug-In Hybrid – $64,990
Recharge Pure Electric – $77,559 standard

Swedish brand’s first EV for Australia won’t come cheap
Australian pricing and specifications for the 2021 Volvo XC40 Recharge Pure Electric have been announced ahead of first customer deliveries in September.
Only one generously equipped version of Volvo Car Australia’s first EV will be available, and it will come with a high price for a small SUV: $76,990 plus on-road costs.
That makes it $12,000 pricier than the Volvo XC40 Recharge Plug-In Hybrid ($64,990 plus ORCs), and $20,000 to $30,000 more expensive than conventional combustion-powered versions of Volvo’s small luxury SUV ($46,990-$56,990).
Perhaps more importantly, the Volvo XC40 EV is priced lineball with its only direct competitor, the Mercedes-Benz EQA ($76,800 plus ORCs). Other rivals will include the upcoming Lexus NX 300h and Tesla Model Y.

The Volvo XC40 EV’s $77K price tag positions it closer to mainstream small electric SUVs like the MG ZS EV ($43,990 drive-away), Kia Niro EV ($62,590 plus ORCs), Hyundai Kona Electric ($62,000 plus ORCs) and Mazda MX-30 Electric ($65,490 plus ORCs) than larger electric luxury SUVs such as the Audi e-tron (from $137,100), BMW iX ($135,900), Jaguar I-PACE ($138,460), Mercedes-Benz EQC ($141,400) and Tesla Model X ($159,400).
A key plank in Volvo Car’s promise to electrify its entire range by 2025, the XC40 Recharge Pure Electric is powered by twin 150kW electric motors on the front and rear axles fed by a 78kWh lithium-ion battery pack under the floor, providing all-wheel drive.
Total outputs are 300kW and 660Nm – enough for Volvo to claim 0-100km/h acceleration in just 4.9 seconds – while the claimed driving range is 418km and the battery can be fast-charged from empty to 80 per cent in about 40 minutes.

The XC40 Recharge Pure Electric comes with Volvo’s five-year/unlimited-kilometre factory warranty, three-year/100,000km service wear and tear plan including wiper blades, brake pads and brake discs, eight years of roadside assistance and an eight-year battery warranty.

Volvo XC40 Recharge pricing and specs announced - carsales.com.au

Swedish brand’s first EV for Australia won’t come cheap

www.carsales.com.au

 

[JohnDe]

Another one enters the Australian market. All the scaremongering about not wanting to bring EVs to Australia is fading away, with more manufacturers sending more models over.

2022 BMW i4 review: Australian first drive​

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BMW has released a sleek mid-size electric sedan to rival the Tesla Model 3. However, as it's not a ground-up redesign, it comes with some compromises.​

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German car maker BMW has joined the growing roster of companies lining up to take back some business from Tesla.​

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The Tesla Model 3 electric car outsold the BMW 3 Series petrol sedan by more than four-to-one in Australia last year.​

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It's taken some time, but BMW finally has a sedan option for new-car buyers wanting to embrace the electric-car era – rather than its experimental i3 hatch or high-priced i8 supercar.​

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To expedite the arrival of an electric BMW sedan in showrooms, rather than develop an all-new model from the ground up, BMW modified the existing platform it uses for its mid-size petrol cars.​

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The proportions and design are familiar because the 2022 BMW i4 electric car is based on the BMW 4 Series released in 2020.​

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While the driving range is fair for the class (up to 520km for the i4 eDrive40 and 465km for the high-performance i4 M50), the Tesla Model 3 aces both models in this regard – and offers quicker performance and a smaller price tag.​

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That said, this car is a step in the right direction on BMW's path to electrification.​

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There are initially two models available: a BMW i4 eDrive40 from $99,900 plus on-road costs, and the BMW i4 M50 from $124,900 plus on-road costs. The full list of specifications for each model can be found here.​

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The more affordable model offers the longest driving range out of the pair (up to 520km in ideal conditions) but the BMW i4 M50 range is reduced to about 465km because of its epic acceleration.​

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While the BMW i4 eDrive40 is no slouch (0 to 100km/h in 5.7 seconds makes it quicker than most hot hatches), the BMW i4 M50 is next-level quick. A 0 to 100km/h time of 3.9 seconds puts that model in Porsche 911 territory, without using a drop of petrol.​

Key details​	2023 BMW i4sedan​
Price (MSRP)​	$99,900 to $124,900 plus on-road costs​
Rivals​	Tesla Model 3 | Porsche Taycan RWD | Polestar 2​

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Conclusion​

First impressions are generally favourable. My main reservation is the price compared to a Tesla Model 3.
Although it's not quite in the same price range, the more expensive BMW iX – a new-from-the-ground-up electric SUV – is a better and more complete overall electric-car than the BMW i4 in my opinion.
Given our preview drive was brief and in wet weather, we will reserve final judgment until we get the BMW i4 into the Drive garage.
In the meantime, if you have your heart set on a sleek electric sedan that's not a Tesla, the BMW i4 is worth a look.
Just be sure to drive it on familiar roads so you can feel the weight of this car.
At close to 2.2-tonnes, it's as heavy as a Toyota HiLux and almost 25 per cent heavier than a Holden Commodore V8.
Other electric cars we've driven lately are better at disguising their excess bodyweight.

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2022 BMW i4 review: Australian first drive

BMW has released a sleek mid-size electric sedan to rival the Tesla Model 3. However, as it's not a ground-up EV, it comes with compromises.

www.drive.com.au

 

[mullokintyre]

Which one?
Recharge Plug-In Hybrid – $64,990
Recharge Pure Electric – $77,559 standard

Pure electric but the tri motor version which is 87k

 

[Smurf1976]

BMW has released a sleek mid-size electric sedan to rival the Tesla Model 3. However, as it's not a ground-up redesign, it comes with some compromises.

Had a look at a BMW factory in Germany 5 years ago. Nothing special, just the public tour that anyone can do.

They were quite upfront that any new vehicle design was being done so as to accommodate any engine type without major changes. So petrol, diesel, electric can all be offered with the same vehicle body.

I can't post any photos, because they didn't allow any to be taken (and were extremely strict on that point - everyone entering was searched by security to ensure no cameras), but they'd clearly thought about it all yes and that was 5 years ago now.

 

[Smurf1976]

AmpCharge

A clever name there....

 

[sptrawler]

Had a look at a BMW factory in Germany 5 years ago. Nothing special, just the public tour that anyone can do.

They were quite upfront that any new vehicle design was being done so as to accommodate any engine type without major changes. So petrol, diesel, electric can all be offered with the same vehicle body.

I can't post any photos, because they didn't allow any to be taken (and were extremely strict on that point - everyone entering was searched by security to ensure no cameras), but they'd clearly thought about it all yes and that was 5 years ago now.

I remember reading a long time ago BMW and Merc were designing engines to run on H2, that has all gone quiet, but I bet they are way ahead of where people think they are.