Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

There is currently a lot of plans by different groups to build charging infrastructure, but like the guys from Now You Know point out, no one seems to know how many and where to set up the stations. Tesla are the only ones that have succeeded.

My thinking is that if government got involved with the infrastructure build with private industry and using Tesla's knowledge in a similar way that the SA government did to set up the battery back up, we could have a top class charging infrastructure across the country. And as you say, it would encourage people to take up EV ownership.

Once EV supply is up to scratch.

Yes at least they are now standardising plugs, the next thing they need to do is standadise a charging voltage, then mass roll out could happen.
If they decide on 800v, a lot of design will be reguired for safety aspects, also at 800v it isnt a common voltage so charging gear will have to be designed at the moment charging voltages are about half that, so tapping into the LV distribution isn't an issue as it is 440v and charging is around that level.

 

[Value Collector]

How does that work when you don't have your own car park, there are enough fights over shared resources and spaces already.

A lot of apartments do have allocated spaces, for them it would be pretty easy.

You can always think of situations where something is going to be difficult, but they are generally sub-groups of sub-groups, and the answer is simply as I stated, if there is absolutely no way to install home charging at an apartment building, then use a public charger, or stick to petrol for now.

But I think the market will fix apartments too, eg the ones with charging will be more attractive, so land lords will want to install charging and body corporate politics will fold.

 

[rederob]

That is correct.

Like most of the points you made in our "discussion", they lack evidence and you have therefore been unable to support them.
If that's the best you can offer, it says a fair bit about your abilities to present information that is credible.

 

[sptrawler]

A lot of apartments do have allocated spaces, for them it would be pretty easy.

You can always think of situations where something is going to be difficult, but they are generally sub-groups of sub-groups, and the answer is simply as I stated, if there is absolutely no way to install home charging at an apartment building, then use a public charger, or stick to petrol for now.

But I think the market will fix apartments too, eg the ones with charging will be more attractive, so land lords will want to install charging and body corporate politics will fold.

The big issue is whether the distribution system in that area can carry it, if a large substation has to be upgraded, body corporates couldn't afford that, trust me.

 

[Value Collector]

B


Because guys like me will still retain monster V8 turbo diesels as there primary form of transport, at least until I die.

I take it you have never driven an electric car, or are compensating for something.

But as I said earlier have fun filling up for $2 a litre, My portfolio thanks you for your donation, mean while my car is charging now for only $0.03 per “Litre equivalent”.

 

[3 hound]

The big issue is whether the distribution system in that area can carry it, if a large substation has to be upgraded, body corporates couldn't afford that, trust me.

This is why I will be sitting back and letting the early adopters sort out the teething problems.

 

[Value Collector]

The big issue is whether the distribution system in that area can carry it, if a large substation has to be upgraded, body corporates couldn't afford that, trust me.

There are smart chargers that communicate to each other to reduce or increase output depending on how many other cars in the complex are plugged in, chargers could also be on timers to no run during peak times, or be idled back during peak times.

I imagine the energy retailers are going to come up with easy ways to make sure most car charging is happening during off peak times.

 

[3 hound]

I take it you have never driven an electric car, or are compensating for something.

But as I said earlier have fun filling up for $2 a litre, My portfolio thanks you for your donation, mean while my car is charging now for only $0.03 per “Litre equivalent”.

It's called loving life, some go on ocean cruises, some buy lots of shoes and pretty clothes, I choose to fang it to over the dunes to my favourite fishing spots. You have your games, I have mine.

What's even the point of investments and wealth creation if all you use it for is to see a graph sloping upwards on a computer screen.

Sounds like you need to reevaluate your life bro.

 

[3 hound]

I imagine the energy retailers are going to come up with easy ways to make sure most car charging is happening during off peak times.

Imagine better, if most of the charging is done in off peak times then off peak becomes peak.

Remember widespread uptake of EV across the entire population causes new excess demand for electricity that has never existed before and it's on top of the existing demand in the complete absence of EV that will also increase.

 

[JohnDe]

Like most of the point you made, they lack evidence and you have therefore been unable to support them.
If that's the best you can offer, it says a fair bit about your abilities to present information that is credible.

Maybe it's your lack of observation and thought, when a different opinion and idea is put in front of you.

I cut and pasted part of Albanese's mention about tax, even had a link.

Regardless of what you think, the point is that giving $50,000 EVs a tax cut will only benefit people that can afford new cars and adds nothing to the supply of EVs to the market because the manufacturers can no build enough. VW are not going to bypass their European market to supply Australia when they can't even supply their own continent.

The vehicle manufactures have sold you their plan to hide the fact that there is not enough EVs for Australia, while at the same time getting tax incentives for customers. How will government ensure that the manufactures do not increase pricing? How will government get more EV imports when there is no stock? Why should my kids have to top up lost tax revenue for no benefit?

• What does your plan give us -
• People that can afford an EV get a discount
• A small increase in EV sales (if stock is available)
• Used EV market in 4+ years

Leave the selling of cars to the manufacturers, and the buying to the punters.

Governments should prepare the country for the future by getting infrastructure up and running. Build the infrastructure and we get multiple benefits -

• Job creation
• Wealth creation and wage increases
• Incentive for faster and higher uptake of EVs
• Confidence for users to travel across the country
• Charging support for owners living in units and apartments
• Long term infrastructure for decades to come.

You have definitely highlighted the flaws in the Labor party's plan for EVs, thank you.

 

[rederob]

Maybe it's your lack of observation and thought, when a different opinion and idea is put in front of you.

I cut and pasted part of Albanese's mention about tax, even had a link.

That is not evidence it is occurring, and I asked you show which manufacturers were benefitting. Can you do that?

Regardless of what you think, the point is that giving $50,000 EVs a tax cut will only benefit people that can afford new cars and adds nothing to the supply of EVs to the market because the manufacturers can no build enough. VW are not going to bypass their European market to supply Australia when they can't even supply their own continent.

Please show where there is a tax break for EVs as I keep asking and get nothing back.

The vehicle manufactures have sold you their plan to hide the fact that there is not enough EVs for Australia, while at the same time getting tax incentives for customers.

Show this is the case as I have not seen it anywhere except in your comments.

You have definitely highlighted the flaws in the Labor party's plan for EVs, thank you.

I have no idea what you are talking about!
Labor has not been in power for a long time.

Perhaps you can point to the policies presently in place supporting your ideas rather than invent situation which do not exist.

 

[rederob]

I cut and pasted part of Albanese's mention about tax, even had a link.

please nominate the post as I could not find you link,

 

[JohnDe]

please nominate the post as I could not find you link,

At the beginning of our debate

 

[sptrawler]

Governments should prepare the country for the future by getting infrastructure up and running. Build the infrastructure and we get multiple benefits -

• Job creation
• Wealth creation and wage increases
• Incentive for faster and higher uptake of EVs
• Confidence for users to travel across the country
• Charging support for owners living in units and apartments
• Long term infrastructure for decades to come.

You have definitely highlighted the flaws in the Labor party's plan for EVs, thank you.

It isn't a lot different to the NBN really, the government didn't give everyone an incentive to buy a computer, they upgraded the infrastructure, so that high speed internet was available to the population.
Funnily enough some of those disagreeing with you, probably cheered on the Government for doing that, go figure.
It wouldn't be a political bias would it?

 

[rederob]

At the beginning of our debate

In other words no tax cuts are offered to manufacturers as you claim.
Labor has a proposal that may or may not come into play, which would remove a tax liability from the vehicle importer, typically a distributor.
As such taxes are essentially built into a vehicle's sale price it is nearly always the consumer who pays. A comparison is Trump's big lie about adding tariffs to some Chinese products, which simply made them more expensive to American consumers and were occasionally absorbed in part by importers to reduce price shocks.
For all intents and purposes the import tax is a zero sum game for manufacturers and does not change their profit margin.

 

[JohnDe]

In other words

 

[Value Collector]

Imagine better, if most of the charging is done in off peak times then off peak becomes peak.

Remember widespread uptake of EV across the entire population causes new excess demand for electricity that has never existed before and it's on top of the existing demand in the complete absence of EV that will also increase.

There is basically two off peak periods, one in the middle of the night when the grid sits idle, that would be capable of charging cars, and the second period is in the middle of the day when their is excess solar.

Also, pretty much all week end is low demand, there is plenty of spare capacity.

But if we need more capacity over the next 20 years as evs are slowly introduced it will be added.

 

[sptrawler]

There is basically two off peak periods, one in the middle of the night when the grid sits idle, that would be capable of charging cars, and the second period is in the middle of the day when their is excess solar.

Also, pretty much all week end is low demand, there is plenty of spare capacity.

But if we need more capacity over the next 20 years as evs are slowly introduced it will be added.

The problem that causes is two fold, firstly as the grid transitions more to renewables the off peak period will be supplied by renewable storage i.e batteries, pumped hydro etc, so unlike now where they want to keep fossil fueled generators on line for the morning peak and there is surplus power available, they actually wont want people charging overnight as that storage may be required the next day if there is low generation.
The second issue is during the day there is currently an excess of solar generation, as more and more grid sized batteries and pumped hydro facilities are installed, that excess power will be used to charge those first.
So as @Smurf1976 and I have said, what is currently the normal mode of grid operation will change considerably and also the way people are charged for using electricity will change also.

 

[3 hound]

Starting to sound like a case of;

Global warming bad, electric vehicle good...end of plan.

 

[sptrawler]

Starting to sound like a case of;

Global warming bad, electric vehicle good...end of plan.

The big problem is, there are a lot more issues than just selling people electric cars, it's just the media don't talk about those other parts of the issue.
And as usual the public hangs on the media's every word, as though it is cast in stone, when in actual fact the media is plasticine and bends with every article. ?