Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Interesting read on autonomous driving in San Francisco.
www.drive.com.au

Empty autonomous car pulled over by police, tries to flee

When police pulled over a new Chevrolet Bolt electric car last week for driving without headlights, there was no one behind the wheel to ticket.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
From the article:
Reaction to the program appears to have been largely positive so far, and there have been no serious accidents reported since it began more than five years ago.
Up to 20 manufacturers – including Mercedes-Benz, Tesla, Google’s Waymo, and Zoox – now have permission to test autonomous technology on public roads in the USA.
 
sptrawler said:
Interesting read on autonomous driving in San Francisco.
www.drive.com.au

Empty autonomous car pulled over by police, tries to flee

When police pulled over a new Chevrolet Bolt electric car last week for driving without headlights, there was no one behind the wheel to ticket.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
From the article:
Reaction to the program appears to have been largely positive so far, and there have been no serious accidents reported since it began more than five years ago.
Up to 20 manufacturers – including Mercedes-Benz, Tesla, Google’s Waymo, and Zoox – now have permission to test autonomous technology on public roads in the USA.
Click to expand...
The future is closer than most can comprehend ?

 
rederob said:
Do I need to repeat how weak your points have been?
Click to expand...

Open your mind, the truth may set you free.

Tax cuts for $50,000 EVs will only help a few.

Use those tax dollars to build infrastructure for the many.

Be wary of VW, a convicted cheat still paying for their sins, offering advice on emissions.

Don’t believe the word coming from vehicle manufacturers struggling to hide the fact that they can’t produce enough product.

Remember that profit is a strong incentive for business, and many will do and say a lot to get a bigger share. Including persuading governments to offer tax breaks, instead of working out how to build at lower costs.

If your view point can’t bend it will break. You don’t like my opinion and say that it is “weak”, which in turn causes your mind to shut down analysis.

I’ve looked at your suggestions, and I have seen those ideas implemented. They are not fair to the majority. Forcing quick change to peoples main mode of transport by reducing or eliminating taxes on new EVs, and not introducing a form of road tax for EV users, while introducing emission laws which will increase the price of budget ICEVs and possibly defect existing units, can only benefit those that can afford to purchase an EV while penalising a large section of the Australian population that can not afford an EV.

You mentioned that eventually used EVs will trickle down to the people that can’t afford new, to the same people that received no benefit of tax cuts for that EV, but had to endure the higher costs of owning an ICEV so as to make it easier for people with $50,000 to get an EV and keep manufacturers happy.

That makes no sense. Especially when there is not enough EV production in the whole world at the moment, and there won’t be for a few years.

Prepare the foundation. Plan and build infrastructure to cope with an EV future. Jobs will be created, wealth shared, wages increased and then people can afford to buy EVs.
 
When I queried the below point from you and asked where there was evidence you said it was a direct quote from Albanese's website:
JohnDe said:
My point is that I do not want tax dollars thrown at vehicle manufacturers so that people like us can buy a cheaper EV.
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If that is the case you should be able to identify the manufacturers who have received the claimed "tax dollars" as I have not found that your comment is true.
Are you talking about what Albanese hopes to do if he wins office, or something happening now that I am unaware of?
Are you confusing tax cuts with monies paid as incentives?
I cannot follow your argument if what you are saying is not making sense.

Let's go on... .
While VW may be a proven cheat, that point is not relevant to their decision not to place their EVs in our market. Here's what an industry body says that backs up VW:
"The lack of supply policies in the Future Fuels and Vehicles Strategy means that Australian vehicle manufacturers will continue to struggle for unit allocation and Australians will miss out on the choice of vehicles they want to buy."​
Our tiny neighbour across the ditch has supportive EV policies and as a result presently has 3 times our EV market penetration.

You and I are on the same page on so many things EV, but there are too many things you have said that just don't square with what's going on.

For example, I have not yet seen or heard a single manufacturer wanting tax breaks to land vehicles in our market. Moreover Tesla, which has the biggest EV share by far, got their share well before any incentives of any kind - existing or proposed - were available. And EVDirect claims BYD is second to Tesla in terms of 2022 sales (via pre-orders) despite not yet having a saleable car in a local showroom.

With regard to your comments on some of the ideas I have offered to assist the EV transition I would be grateful if you pointed out examples so I could respond. I am a strong advocate of policies that are well targeted rather than broad brush, and have regularly stated that if monetary incentives are offered then they need to be capped so as not to favour the wealthy. Such an example already exists whereby Queensland's rebate cap precludes Teslas and a number of other expensive imports.

You said that I "mentioned that eventually used EVs will trickle down," but that was not the case. I said people like me will sell their used ICEVs privately into the market at comparatively lower prices as online sales channels do not accept trade ins. I have said that used EVs will sell at a premium and have posted on instances where buyers will pay more for a second hand EV today rather than wait 9 months for a new car (and probably cop a price hike in the interim).
JohnDe said:
Prepare the foundation. Plan and build infrastructure to cope with an EV future. Jobs will be created, wealth shared, wages increased and then people can afford to buy EVs.
Click to expand...
Indeed!
Every country, without exception, has supportive policies as the foundation. Whereas our policies favour manufacturer avoidance, to the extent that our EV sales are the lowest by a long margin among western industrialised nations.
 
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I agree with you @JohnDe there is no point giving incentives to something that doesn't require it, rederob and myself have ordered EV's and as you say we have to wait because manufacturers can't keep up with demand, it certainly doesn't sound like it needs an incentive to me.

Also as you say, there would be no greater disincentive to the uptake of EV's, than pictures of queues of cars waiting in line to get a charge, if it is left to the private sector to install the infrastructure, it will lag the demand as they want a rate of return on their capital. Much like what is happening in the electrical grid system over East, the private sector are reluctant to deploy capital into at call generation, because there is no certainty as to how much it will be dispatched, therefore Kurri Kurri is being built by the Government, that's what Governments should do install infrastructure that helps the majority of the general public, after all it is the general public who are paying for it.

But it has been an interesting discussion.
 
sptrawler said:
I agree with you @JohnDe there is no point giving incentives to something that doesn't require it, rederob and myself have ordered EV's and as you say we have to wait because manufacturers can't keep up with demand, it certainly doesn't sound like it needs an incentive to me.

Also as you say, there would be no greater disincentive to the uptake of EV's, than pictures of queues of cars waiting in line to get a charge, if it is left to the private sector to install the infrastructure, it will lag the demand as they want a rate of return on their capital. Much like what is happening in the electrical grid system over East, the private sector are reluctant to deploy capital into at call generation, because there is no certainty as to how much it will be dispatched, therefore Kurri Kurri is being built by the Government, that's what Governments should do install infrastructure that helps the majority of the general public, after all it is the general public who are paying for it.

But it has been an interesting discussion.
Click to expand...

As a lot of young urban dwellers will be the prime demographic for EV's I wonder on a practical level how they will charge them at home in a unit complex with underground parking that is not designated to any specific individual.
 
3 hound said:
As a lot of young urban dwellers will be the prime demographic for EV's I wonder on a practical level how they will charge them at home in a unit complex with underground parking that is not designated to any specific individual.
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Do not worry too much, the EVs will not be there
not enough lithium..again facts not narrative
www.ft.com

Electric vehicle targets ‘impossible’ without changes to lithium pipeline

West has been ‘slow’ to challenge China’s dominance of supply chains, says Australian producer
www.ft.com www.ft.com
Until new battery tech is found, the ev pipe dream will not happen, at least not on a world scale
 
3 hound said:
As a lot of young urban dwellers will be the prime demographic for EV's I wonder on a practical level how they will charge them at home in a unit complex with underground parking that is not designated to any specific individual.
Click to expand...
That is going to be a major issue, the electrical distribution system may have to be beefed up in some areas to meet maximum demand, the other thing that is being developed in Europe is inductive charging under the parking spaces but that will be expensive to install and I'm not sure on the charging efficiency yet.
My guess is a lot of people will have to use public charging outlets on the street as is the case in Europe, the advantage we have is that high density living isn't as widespread here.
The other thing that is happening is the EV manufacturers are increasing the charging voltage on the vehicles, which in turn reduces the charge current, so charge times can be reduced as the heat produced is much less.
 
3 hound said:
As a lot of young urban dwellers will be the prime demographic for EV's I wonder on a practical level how they will charge them at home in a unit complex with underground parking that is not designated to any specific individual.
Click to expand...
I don’t think young urban dwellers are the prime demographic, I think the prime demographic is people in the suburbs commuting or travelling around the suburbs in their daily life.

But either way, it’s not that big of a deal to install some power points or chargers into apartment building car parks, and as demand grows obviously so will the public chargers, that’s how business works, it’s much easier to install EV charging than it is to install petrol refilling locations, and petrol stations pop up everywhere through the normal business of demand and supply.

But as I said the low hanging fruit is all the people in the suburbs that have garages or park in their driveways where they would just charge at home.

When it comes to apartments, a lot of them would be suitable for chargers or PowerPoints, and the ones that aren’t the people could use public chargers once a week just like they use public petrol stations anyway.
 
sptrawler said:
the advantage we have is that high density living isn't as widespread here.
Click to expand...

It is widespread in the key demographic looking to purchase EV's.

I have a house, very large yard and at some point will get solar. When the market, prices infrastructure is right I will get an EV.

I am not the key demographic in the upcoming EV market however.

Youngsters in high density living presumably are.
 
sptrawler said:
I agree with you @JohnDe there is no point giving incentives to something that doesn't require it, rederob and myself have ordered EV's and as you say we have to wait because manufacturers can't keep up with demand, it certainly doesn't sound like it needs an incentive to me.

Also as you say, there would be no greater disincentive to the uptake of EV's, than pictures of queues of cars waiting in line to get a charge, if it is left to the private sector to install the infrastructure, it will lag the demand as they want a rate of return on their capital. Much like what is happening in the electrical grid system over East, the private sector are reluctant to deploy capital into at call generation, because there is no certainty as to how much it will be dispatched, therefore Kurri Kurri is being built by the Government, that's what Governments should do install infrastructure that helps the majority of the general public, after all it is the general public who are paying for it.

But it has been an interesting discussion.
Click to expand...

There is currently a lot of plans by different groups to build charging infrastructure, but like the guys from Now You Know point out, no one seems to know how many and where to set up the stations. Tesla are the only ones that have succeeded.

My thinking is that if government got involved with the infrastructure build with private industry and using Tesla's knowledge in a similar way that the SA government did to set up the battery back up, we could have a top class charging infrastructure across the country. And as you say, it would encourage people to take up EV ownership.

Once EV supply is up to scratch.
 
3 hound said:
It is widespread in the key demographic looking to purchase EV's.

I have a house, very large yard and at some point will get solar. When the market, prices infrastructure is right I will get an EV.

I am not the key demographic in the upcoming EV market however.

Youngsters in high density living presumably are.
Click to expand...
You are the key demographic, I am not sure why you think ev’s would be limited to youngsters in high density.
 
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