Electric cars?

[rederob]

Does this mean I should sell my Nickel stocks?

Don't know!
Tesla's Cybertruck and Tesla's Semi will use nickel cathode material exclusively and all high end BEVs are going to use more energy dense nickel cathode batteries (based on what we know today). The gigafactories for these are not yet operational, so there's a lot of demand being catered for which as yet has not bitten into nickel supply. My suspicion is that present nickel tightness is largely due to the marginal additional demand of BEVs, and that this will incrementally see nickel prices stabilise at higher highs as the supply/demand balance tries to respond. For example, Tesla's deals with BHP and Prony have yet to transfer supply from China to the USA. Rystad chart this as follows:

This article is a good read, but is now outdated, despite being written earlier this year.
Quickly getting back to nickel supply, warehouse levels continue to deplete this year, as shown at LME:

and
Shanghai:

I am not sure how the forecasters are currently seeing nickel supply in surplus or, for that matter, the surplus continuing for another 2 years. This article sums up my thinking.

 

[Sean K]

OK, thanks @rederob and @Value Collector , I shouldn't be writing off the mid term Ni supply demand just yet, even if Tesla changes their battery. Cheers

 

[Value Collector]

OK, I shouldn't be writing off the mid term Ni supply demand just yet, even if Tesla changes their battery. Cheers

definately not writing off Ni yet, if I were to compare it to VHS videos, I would say we are in June of 1982, and we have a lot of good years ahead, but DVDs will come.

 

[moXJO]

I want evs simply due to fuel possibly becoming scarce and more expensive. The fact that I can rig up solar and charge it satisfies my inner preper.

 

[qldfrog]

I want evs simply due to fuel possibly becoming scarce and more expensive. The fact that I can rig up solar and charge it satisfies my inner preper.

You understand that possibility basically ensures a coming tax on your solar capacity...
Like the idea, dread the coming consequences

 

[Value Collector]

I want evs simply due to fuel possibly becoming scarce and more expensive. The fact that I can rig up solar and charge it satisfies my inner preper.

That’s my favourite part too, I remember some time in the first month or so of owning my EV, I was heading home for lunch after a morning driving round doing errands, and I realised that when I got home I was going to charge my car from the sun and replace all the “fuel” I had just used for free, and a sense of freedom just washed over me, hahaha, it’s a great feeling to be energy independent.

 

[moXJO]

You understand that possibility basically ensures a coming tax on your solar capacity...
Like the idea, dread the coming consequences

By then my plans of the abolition of government will have come to pass.

 

[JohnDe]

"Thousands of freight trucks and family cars could be forced off the roads within weeks over shortages of a special anti-pollution additive for diesel vehicles – a move that threatens to smash the nation’s already strained supply chain."

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

While we are reliant on imported oil, fuel and additives, (we will always be reliant on imported oil) our transport system will be at the mercy of circumstances out of our control.

With a solar power system and battery storage, an EV is operational for as long as the sun shines and the battery is topped up. When the sun stops shining the battery can be topped up by wind turbines. And when the wind stops our hydro can help. When the hydro is out the gas and coal generators are used to top up the battery. Eventually our generators will be powered by hydrogen and possibly nuclear energy.

EV's are here to stay, for consumers and light to medium transport. Hydrogen will be the fuel of heavy industry.

Filled up my VF SS-V a few days ago at a cost of $127. Filled up the Tesla overnight at a cost of $16.25 (I have solar but no battery).

 

[Investoradam]

Don't know!
Tesla's Cybertruck and Tesla's Semi will use nickel cathode material exclusively and all high end BEVs are going to use more energy dense nickel cathode batteries (based on what we know today). The gigafactories for these are not yet operational, so there's a lot of demand being catered for which as yet has not bitten into nickel supply. My suspicion is that present nickel tightness is largely due to the marginal additional demand of BEVs, and that this will incrementally see nickel prices stabilise at higher highs as the supply/demand balance tries to respond. For example, Tesla's deals with BHP and Prony have yet to transfer supply from China to the USA. Rystad chart this as follows:
View attachment 133674
This article is a good read, but is now outdated, despite being written earlier this year.
Quickly getting back to nickel supply, warehouse levels continue to deplete this year, as shown at LME:
View attachment 133675
and
Shanghai:
View attachment 133676
I am not sure how the forecasters are currently seeing nickel supply in surplus or, for that matter, the surplus continuing for another 2 years. This article sums up my thinking.

more toxic material dug from the ground. natural vegetation destroyed, poison waste materials pumped back in to the ground, atmosphere or run off in to the river ways!
just like a fat person drinking diet soda and thinking it better for them as it says sugar free

 

[JohnDe]

more toxic material dug from the ground. natural vegetation destroyed, poison waste materials pumped back in to the ground, atmosphere or run off in to the river ways!
just like a fat person drinking diet soda and thinking it better for them as it says sugar free

I'm just wondering how you posted that comment without using a computer made out of "toxic material dug from the ground. natural vegetation destroyed, poison waste materials pumped back in to the ground, atmosphere or run off in to the river ways"

 

[qldfrog]

more toxic material dug from the ground. natural vegetation destroyed, poison waste materials pumped back in to the ground, atmosphere or run off in to the river ways!
just like a fat person drinking diet soda and thinking it better for them as it says sugar free

very good analogy, trouble is the ultimate push is not to move you to sugar free but to no drink at all, whereas in reasonable amount, it is like ham, red meat, alcohol and dare i say weed, is what makes life good

 

[Investoradam]

very good analogy, trouble is the ultimate push is not to move you to sugar free but to no drink at all, whereas in reasonable amount, it is like ham, red meat, alcohol and dare i say weed, is what makes life good

the powerbrokers of the world only want the good things for them self, the useful idiots the left aka the most stupid of stupid of society (Vladimir Lenins terminology)
the want red meat and want us to have the fake meat and have the useful idiot believe that cows farting are the problem of this world

 

[Investoradam]

I'm just wondering how you posted that comment without using a computer made out of "toxic material dug from the ground. natural vegetation destroyed, poison waste materials pumped back in to the ground, atmosphere or run off in to the river ways"

im not arguing that point. im just arguing the excuse to dig more out of the ground and the useful idiots blame coal and cows farting
I mean they have black African children digging the callout in the Congo out of the ground, yet preach to us about BLM
congo has around 70% of worlds total calbolt

Profiling the six largest cobalt reserves in the world by country

A single country accounts for more than half of the world's cobalt reserves, but new supply chains are being targeted as demand rises.

www.nsenergybusiness.com

google all you want about the African child slaves

Apple and Google named in US lawsuit over Congolese child cobalt mining deaths

Dell, Microsoft and Tesla also among tech firms named in case brought by families of children killed or injured while mining in DRC

www.theguardian.com

yep cows farting are the issue

 

[Investoradam]

Volvo says emissions from making EVs can be 70% higher than petrol models - and claims it can take up to 9 YEARS of driving before they become greener​

Volvo has said that emissions from the production of electric cars are far higher than a petrol equivalent, as it called on world leaders and energy providers to significantly boost investments in green energy to reduce the carbon footprint of plug-in models.

The Swedish car maker said that over a car's lifetime the electric version will become greener overall, though this will only be achieved after covering between 30,000 and 68,400 miles - taking between four and nine years for the average UK motorist.

The claims were made to coincide with the COP26 climate summit taking place in Glasgow and as part of a revolutionary new transparency approach adopted by the brand, which includes publishing its latest 'Life Cycle Assessment' report for the pure-electric £57,400 C40 Recharge.

Volvo says electric car making emissions are 70% HIGHER than petrol

Volvo said the C40 Recharge has a far lower carbon footprint during 'use phase' and if clean energy was used things would improve.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[JohnDe]

im not arguing that point. im just arguing the excuse to dig more out of the ground and the useful idiots blame coal and cows farting
I mean they have black African children digging the callout in the Congo out of the ground, yet preach to us about BLM
congo has around 70% of worlds total calbolt

As a consumer and investor, choose your products and investment so as not to own anything that offends you.

Australia has plenty of Cobalt, Tesla is weening itself off of Cobalt.

The six largest cobalt reserves in the world by country

1. Democratic Republic of Congo – 3.6 million tonnes
The DRC is home to more than 50% of the world’s cobalt reserves...

2. Australia – 1.4 million tonnes
Australia holds 1.4 million tonnes of cobalt, around 20% of the global share....

3. Cuba – 500,000 tonnes
Around 7% of the world’s cobalt reserves are based in Cuba.....

4. Philippines – 260,000 tonnes
The Philippines has cobalt reserves totalling 260,000 tonnes, around 4% of the global total....

5. Russia – 250,000 tonnes
While Russia has relatively small cobalt reserves of just 250,000 tonnes.....

6. Canada – 220,000 tonnes
Canada ranks sixth among the world’s largest cobalt reserves, which total 220,000 tonnes – or a 3% share of the global total.

Profiling the six largest cobalt reserves in the world by country

A single country accounts for more than half of the world's cobalt reserves, but new supply chains are being targeted as demand rises.

www.nsenergybusiness.com

 

[Smurf1976]

When the sun stops shining the battery can be topped up by wind turbines. And when the wind stops our hydro can help. When the hydro is out the gas and coal generators are used to top up the battery.

It can be done without the gas and coal bit there so long as it's all designed properly.

There are however many who'd not be happy with such an outcome hence the great debate about it all.

From a technical perspective though there's absolutely no reason society can't be powered fully by renewables in the Australian context and predominantly by them in the global context. Technically and economically it's doable if society chooses to.

As for oil, well Australia's rather short on conventional crude oil yes but we do have shale should we ever wish to use it indeed there's even a type of shale named after an Australian state. No prizes for guessing where Tasmanite shale is found. The bulk of Australian shale resources are in Qld but also known deposits in NSW, Tas and to a minor extent SA and WA.

I'd pick EV's over oil shale any day though. That's the way the world's going so no point in Australia, a country which imports all its cars, trying to fight that trend. Plus extracting oil from shale is a pretty nasty process environmentally.

 

[JohnDe]

Volvo says emissions from making EVs can be 70% higher than petrol models - and claims it can take up to 9 YEARS of driving before they become greener​

Of course Volvo would say that, they only sell about 4% of the worlds EV vehicles. Volvo are still learning how to manufacture an efficient EV.

Global EV market share by manufacturer | Statista

In 2023, the two leading EV manufacturers held over 35 percent of the electric vehicle market shares. Geely-Volvo Car Group ranked fourth.

www.statista.com

 

[JohnDe]

It can be done without the gas and coal bit there so long as it's all designed properly.

There are however many who'd not be happy with such an outcome hence the great debate about it all.

From a technical perspective though there's absolutely no reason society can't be powered fully by renewables in the Australian context and predominantly by them in the global context. Technically and economically it's doable if society chooses to.

As for oil, well Australia's rather short on conventional crude oil yes but we do have shale should we ever wish to use it indeed there's even a type of shale named after an Australian state. No prizes for guessing where Tasmanite shale is found. The bulk of Australian shale resources are in Qld but also known deposits in NSW, Tas and to a minor extent SA and WA.

I'd pick EV's over oil shale any day though. That's the way the world's going so no point in Australia, a country which imports all its cars, trying to fight that trend. Plus extracting oil from shale is a pretty nasty process environmentally.

Yes, agreed. I've been a science and science fiction nut from when I was old enough to read, I've been waiting for a world of EV's and renewable energy for a long time. However, I also understand the reluctance of people to change and why it has taken so long for me to own a efficient EV. There's no point arguing with people still fighting for old technology, because change is coming faster than anyone expected and it is picking up speed.

Shale oil would be a last resort, the cost to refine it is much higher than crude, and shale has a lot more nasties in it. If people had to pay $3 or $4 per litre for shale oil, over 10c - 50c per kWh, I think they'd be more willing to change to an EV

 

[basilio]

Shale oil would be a last resort, the cost to refine it is much higher than crude, and shale has a lot more nasties in it. If people had to pay $3 or $4 per litre for shale oil, over 10c - 50c per kWh, I think they'd be more willing to change to an EV

Evidence based thinking ? Rational approach to risks ? What a great advance that would be.

 

[JohnDe]

Evidence based thinking ? Rational approach to risks ? What a great advance that would be.

"Shale oil prepared by pyrolysis of Jordanian oil shale was characterized and compared to petroleum. Results show that shale oil compares well to crude oil and its fractions. For example, 85% of the shale oil sample fractions fall within the range of the light and heavy gas oil fractions. The 50% boiling range temperature of shale oil is 305°C, whereas for light and heavy gas oils, they are 270°C and 425°C, respectively. This indicates that shale oil may be used as a substitute for gas oil or heavy fuel oil. Major disadvantages of shale oil are that it has high aromatics, heavy metals, and sulfur contents of more than 8.3%."

Characterization of Shale Oil as Compared to Crude Oil and Some Refined Petroleum Products

(2003). Characterization of Shale Oil as Compared to Crude Oil and Some Refined Petroleum Products. Energy Sources: Vol. 25, No. 12, pp. 1171-1182.

www.tandfonline.com