Electric cars?

[moXJO]

The Tesla model 3 which is Australia’s leading EV, gets over 400kms range, that’s pretty decent in my opinion, it’s pretty much equal to most people fuel tank.

The added benefit though is you don’t have to go to a petrol station, if you arrive home with 5% charge you just plug in and it’s back to 400km range again in the morning.

Also, let’s say you did have to drive 500km in one day, so you need to charge some where through out that day, you don’t have to charge up to 100%, you just plug in for 5 or 6 minutes to get that extra 15% of so to get you home and then top up at home.

This happened to me the other day, (for the first time in 2 years), I was driving round the city all day running errands, and by the time I was ready to head home it calculated that I would arrive home with 6% charge, that was a bit close for me so I stopped at a charger for literally only 3 mins, in which I took on about 15% charge then I drove home and plugged in.

Almost no one is going to be driving more than 400km without Stopping for a few minutes, And you won’t be driving 400km without passing a charger some where along the way.

Sorry meant range of cars at different price points

 

[JohnDe]

Hi all. Interesting reading and some outdated information

Tesla battery technology is at least 8 yeas ahead of everyone else, and battery technology includes the software side.

There are a lot of 10 year old Tesla's driving around with the original battery pack, capacity does drop but it is not a lot. Do some research and you'll find a lot of examples. Yes batteries have been known to fail, but so have internal combustion engines and transmissions; how many of those come with an 8 year warranty?

Recycling technology has been developed and there are companies bringing it on line now, like LIT Australia - "Lithium Australia is joining international efforts to achieve zero-carbon status. How? By working towards a circular battery economy that enhances not only sustainability but also resource security worldwide."

Yes the cost to purchase an EV is higher than an ICE, but the price parity is getting closer every day. The price of a Tesla has dropped over the past few years, and if you compare it to a similar ICE model there is not too much in it. Add in the cost of servicing over the warranty period and the Tesla may end up cheaper. No engine oil and filter changes, no spark plugs and drive belts to replace, brakes that last over 250,000km.

Yesterday my partner & I drove our Tesla M3 LR from Adelaide to Wallaroo, we had lunch and then bit of sightseeing and a drive around, before driving straight home. No range anxiety.

 

[Value Collector]

Sorry meant range of cars at different price points

Yep, I agree there, as I said the thing that raises the price of EV’s is the battery, that’s why I say the luxury car tax is a battery tax when it comes to EV’s, and should be either abolished, or have the threshold raised by $20K for EV’s and other zero emission cars.

 

[rederob]

Tesla battery technology is at least 8 yeas ahead of everyone else, and battery technology includes the software side.

Tesla is shifting to LFP for its "standard" models as Musk says he likes the idea of being able to charge to 100%.
BYD's blade battery is ahead of other LFP battery types and apart from Tesla's deal with CATL for LFP it's also rumoured they have a 10GWh deal with BYD.

 

[JohnDe]

Tesla is shifting to LFP for its "standard" models as Musk says he likes the idea of being able to charge to 100%.
BYD's blade battery is ahead of other LFP battery types and apart from Tesla's deal with CATL for LFP it's also rumoured they have a 10GWh deal with BYD.

Yes, the M3 standard range has had the LFP battery for several months. The advantage is 100% charge capability at all times. The disadvantage is weight.

When I took delivery of my M3 LR the recommended charging procedure was - charge to 80% capacity at all times, unless preparing for a road trip, then can be charged to 100%.

However, with Tesla's continual development of software, there has been a few 'over the air' software updates (think of iPhone updates) and one of those changed the recommended charge rate for my M3 to 90%, and at the same time my mileage range increased. With 100% charge still recommended for road trips.

Tesla are currently selling over 500,000 cars a year, that is a lot of proven battery technology and collected data.

 

[SirRumpole]

The chart below, produced by VW, shows why Europe will get all the EVs they can lay their hands on:
View attachment 133542
The obvious downside by way of comparisons, is range. However, as noted previously, battery pack upgrades are available and the additional cost is in a fashion recoverable by way of energy storage capacity after the life of the vehicle.

Despite the present high cost of the very few EVs available in Australia, purchasing one now or sooner rather than later is likely to pay off. That's because you will be able to offset the higher price today against the retained resale value (assuming a holding period of at about 3 years).

Would be interesting to see towing capacity and how towing a load affects range.

Apart from Audi the EV's seem short of torque.

 

[moXJO]

I still need a Ute. I don't want that dicky looking one Tesla came up with though. I feel like I'm going to be waiting around for a long time.

Does the tesla autopilot feature work in Australia?

 

[Value Collector]

I still need a Ute. I don't want that dicky looking one Tesla came up with though. I feel like I'm going to be waiting around for a long time.

Does the tesla autopilot feature work in Australia?

Yep, I use autopilot all the time.

 

[rederob]

Would be interesting to see towing capacity and how towing a load affects range.

Apart from Audi the EV's seem short of torque.

If you tow a boat or a van on a regular basis you buy a vehicle fit for purpose.
Presently not many large EVs are in production, and none will come to Australia for some years as neither Rivian nor Ford 150 nor GM's Hummer nor the Cybertruck look destined for here until late 2023 at earliest given preorders. I believe about 19000 Atlis XT pickups will be coming to Qld for configuration to our standards from 2023. Otherwise we wait to see when Great Wall (Haval) and BYD bring out their pick ups, although 2023 again looks most likely. No doubt I have missed some from the smaller players.
As to torque, comparable EVs knock ICE vehicles out of the water (eg Ford's ICE F-150 has twice the horsepower and torque of its EV equivalent) , while the range issue will depend on available battery options, as both Rivian and Cybertruck have up to 800km range.

 

[Value Collector]

 

[rederob]

The easiest way to incentivise EV ownership is for the government to include an interest free loan with any purchase, scaled to a capped price for any qualifying EV. I would envisage such a policy being similar to a HEX debt, except that any outstanding amount would be expunged on sale of the vehicle. This article shows why such a policy would make sense:

The article notes a Tesla 3 costs over $20k more than the average car. However, after 3 years you are better off because the resale value of the EV is considerably higher ( a point I made in an earlier post).

 

[JohnDe]

I still need a Ute. I don't want that dicky looking one Tesla came up with though. I feel like I'm going to be waiting around for a long time.

Does the tesla autopilot feature work in Australia?

I'll never sell my Ute, a Holden VF SS-V. Valuation has gone crazy, I could sell it for the same price I paid for it new in 2014. Last of an icon :-(

Our Tesla is amazing, I compare it to a spaceship. The Auto Pilot is very handy for assisting in relaxed driving. I'd love to have Full Self Driving, but not at the price they are asking.

 

[moXJO]

I'll never sell my Ute, a Holden VF SS-V. Valuation has gone crazy, I could sell it for the same price I paid for it new in 2014. Last of an icon :-(

Our Tesla is amazing, I compare it to a spaceship. The Auto Pilot is very handy for assisting in relaxed driving. I'd love to have Full Self Driving, but not at the price they are asking.

My parents could use the feature after driving behind them. How much is the full self driving? (If it's available yet)

 

[Value Collector]

My parents could use the feature after driving behind them. How much is the full self driving? (If it's available yet)

Full self driving is about $10k I think now.

But, even if you don’t buy the full self driving package you still get basic auto pilot, where the car will drive itself along the free way,

But the full self driving feature will over take slower cars, and change lanes to navigate and merge off the freeway etc.

the full self driving is what Tesla intends to eventually be a full robo taxi experience, and you will get regular updates as more features are unlocked.

 

[mullokintyre]

Paris Marx, as good as an example of Nominative Determinism as I have seen in a while, writes in Business Insider that EV's won't save the planet, we need to get rid of ALL cars.

Transportation accounts for 29% of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States, and more than half of that comes from passenger vehicles. Since taking office in January, the Biden administration has taken steps toward electrification, but also failed to sign onto a pledge announced at COP26 to phase out fossil-fuel vehicles by 2040.

Electric vehicles are one piece of a strategy to slash transport emissions, but they tend to receive far more attention than proposals to cut car use. The electrification of transportation is essential — there is no doubt about that — but just replacing every personal vehicle with a battery-powered equivalent will produce an environmental disaster of its own. Such a strategy also denies us the opportunity to rethink a near-century of misguided auto-oriented city planning.
The focus on tailpipe emissions misses the bigger picture, and at a moment when we can see the complex, global nature of supply chains in our everyday lives, we need to think beyond such a limited framing of electric vehicles' environmental impact.

For example, particulate matter created from tire, brake, and road wear, as well as the dust kicked up by cars on the road, does not fuel climate change, but it does create air pollution that's harmful to human health. In the United States, these pollutants are responsible for about 53,000 premature deaths each year, and heavier electric vehicles like SUVs and trucks could actually generate more particulate matter than lighter, non-electric cars.

Yet while health effects are important, the biggest concern is the minerals that are required to make the batteries that power electric vehicles and the mining that has to happen to extract them. It's a reality that seriously dirties their green image, and shows the "zero emissions" branding simply isn't accurate.
Ahead of COP26, the International Energy Agency released its latest World Energy Outlook that estimated achieving net-zero emissions by 2050 will require six times more minerals by mid-century than is necessary today. Yet the majority of those minerals are required for electric vehicles and storage, whose mineral demand is projected to increase by "well over 50 times by 2050" as the demand for batteries to power them grows substantially. As a result, the United States is assessing its own mineral supply chains and working with Canada to expand mining activities to supply battery makers. But all that mining comes with consequences.

So there you have it.
Think of the money saved if there are no cars, trucks and buses at all.
All that money spent on roads, service stations, bridges, tunnels, freeway overpasses etc would be spent on public transport (as long as it doe not require a road). No need for fuel refineries, the savings would be enormous.
I have an old horse drawn buggy on the farm.
Needs a bit of work, but I am sure it can be restored.
Will probably have to resort to horse drawn ploughs, and scythes.
it will be great.
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

Paris Marx, as good as an example of Nominative Determinism as I have seen

So there you have it.

Will probably have to resort to horse drawn ploughs, and scythes.
it will be great.
Mick

Another example of reluctance to change with the times. Introducing EV's is not all about 'saving the environment', it is also about improving transport and bringing it out of the 20th century, creating new opportunities, weening us off of imported oil.

Enjoy the cave Mick ;-)

 

[Smurf1976]

Paris Marx, as good as an example of Nominative Determinism as I have seen in a while, writes in Business Insider that EV's won't save the planet, we need to get rid of ALL cars.

Thing is, the article doesn't say that's required in order to save the planet.

It just points out that some minerals need to be moved around and refined and that there's some impacts on urban air quality but that's vastly different from any threat to the planet.

In the absence of a return to a mid-20th Century industrial economy where most people worked for a few big companies at the one location and work was the only real reason they travelled anywhere then cars are very much here to stay, no other method effectively gets people and objects not from A to B but from M to Q to C then down to Z effectively.

It's much the same as other technologies. Public transport is to moving people what broadcast TV and printed newspapers are to media. One size fits all - it works so long as everyone actually wants the same thing, they're going to the same place, but becomes hugely cumbersome when they're all going to somewhere different as is increasingly the case. Private vehicles are the equivalent of any on-demand service there, it gives the individual the thing they want without anyone else needing to want it at the same time.

There's still a place for public transport of course but the car is here to stay as well.

 

[Sean K]

Tesla is shifting to LFP for its "standard" models as Musk says he likes the idea of being able to charge to 100%.
BYD's blade battery is ahead of other LFP battery types and apart from Tesla's deal with CATL for LFP it's also rumoured they have a 10GWh deal with BYD.

Does this mean I should sell my Nickel stocks?

 

[Value Collector]

Another example of reluctance to change with the times. Introducing EV's is not all about 'saving the environment', it is also about improving transport and bringing it out of the 20th century, creating new opportunities, weening us off of imported oil.

Enjoy the cave Mick ;-)

Agreed, Even if Climate Change didn’t exist I still would want my EV, it’s just such a more convenient form of motoring.

But also even if Climate change wasn’t a thing, we would still need to move towards Tech that doesn’t rely on oil, because whether it is 20, 40 or 60 years away we will hit peak oil before the babies being born today have finished living, whether that’s when they turn 18 or when the hit retirement, we need to have moved away from oil just because of the fact it’s not infinite.

 

[Value Collector]

Does this mean I should sell my Nickel stocks?

Maybe just keep some as part of a diversified group of miners.

The way I look at it is this. By investing in Nickel you are investing in one aspect of the technology associated with the trend towards Ev’s, and even if the trend to Ev’s continues, the battery tech might change and leave you behind.

Take the film industry as an example, it’s grown steadily for over 100 years, Disney made Snow White in 1938 and are still making millions from it each year, over the years Disney has used many different Techs to distribute Snow White, eg physical rolls of film, VHS cassettes, free to air broadcast towers, DVD’s, Blue ray, satellite TV, Cable, digital downloads, streaming subscriptions and probably others.

If you had invested in Disney itself you would make money over the years regardless of the tech used, how ever if you saw what Disney was doing and decided to invest in VHS cassettes, it would have been good for a while, but then competition and new tech would have destroyed you.