Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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As I've being saying, as demand picks up so does supply.
www.drive.com.au

Electric car fast charging network headed for Australian shopping centres

Some of Australia's most well-known shopping centres are set to adopt more electric vehicle fast chargers during the next two years ... but they'll come at a cost.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
From the article:
Vicinity – which owns the Queen Victoria Building, the Strand and Chatswood Chase in Sydney, Chadstone, Emporium, and Queens Plaza in Melbourne, and the DFO network, among others notable local retail centres – will install the charging infrastructure at “up to” 30 locations within the “next two years.”

Specifications for the chargers have not yet been announced, however Drive understands dual-lead 120kW DC outlets are likely.

If accurate, this will allow a Tesla Model 3 sedan – Australia’s most popular electric car – to top up from 10 per cent to 80 per cent charge in approximately 30 minutes, or slightly less time than the average shopping trip (which takes 41 minutes, according to CreditDonkey).

French start-up Engie will install the chargers, via a $AU25 million grant provided earlier this year through the Federal Government’s Future Fuels Fund.

“With 66% of the Australian population living within a 30-minute drive of our centres, the rollout of electric vehicle charging in our car parks will greatly expand the charging infrastructure, paving the way for greater electric vehicle ownership in Australia.”

The first Vicinity electric vehicle chargers will be installed in late 2021 or early 2022, with the remainder promised within the next two years.
 
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Ok here's a story from a while back:
https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill

Phillip Carlson bought a Nissan Leaf in August 2012, which cost about $53,500. It’s seven years old today, and it’s worth maybe $12,000 - if you can find someone dumb enough to buy it. Let’s let him tell the story.

“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.
“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!! Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.”

I wonder if you could buy these cars for cheap and wait for battery tech to catch up for cheap installs. Probably not worth it on these cheaper models
 
moXJO said:
Ok here's a story from a while back:
https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill

Phillip Carlson bought a Nissan Leaf in August 2012, which cost about $53,500. It’s seven years old today, and it’s worth maybe $12,000 - if you can find someone dumb enough to buy it. Let’s let him tell the story.

“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.
“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!! Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.”

I wonder if you could buy these cars for cheap and wait for battery tech to catch up for cheap installs. Probably not worth it on these cheaper models
Click to expand...
That is the reason I think people who want to buy an E.V in Australia, should research the issue carefully, the sales people and some others will tell you anything to either sell the car or push the issue of CC.
I personally am of the opinion, if I buy an E.V in the near future, it will be a plug in hybrid, with a battery of about 20Kw/hr and be V2G compliant.
The reason being I get the flexibility of range, I can use it as a pure E.V around the city and if I wish in the near future I can use it as a house battery. The other consideration IMO, is a 20Kw battery pack should be compact enough to be readily replaced at a reasonable price at a future date.
The 2012 Nissan Leaf would have probably have had a Ni/Mh battery, which IMO are not up to Li/ion battery standard, in most aspects. :2twocents
But as with everything it is all down to personal choice.
 
moXJO said:
www.gizmodo.com.au

All the New Electric Vehicles in Australia, Ranked by Price

Interested in going electric but don't know where to start? Well, here's every new electric vehicle in Australia ranked by price.
www.gizmodo.com.au www.gizmodo.com.au

Every ev currently available in Australia (with prices).
Click to expand...
Great, and i assume it will be a bit more on the road with rego, delivery fees etc etc.
I know EV were expensive here but gosh, definitively just a luxury toy or taxpayer funded market
 
moXJO said:
Ok here's a story from a while back:
https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill

Phillip Carlson bought a Nissan Leaf in August 2012, which cost about $53,500. It’s seven years old today, and it’s worth maybe $12,000 - if you can find someone dumb enough to buy it. Let’s let him tell the story.

“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.
“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!! Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.”

I wonder if you could buy these cars for cheap and wait for battery tech to catch up for cheap installs. Probably not worth it on these cheaper models
Click to expand...
Grandiose marketing claims probably not confined to EV's.
The claimed economy/range of most vehicles is rarely achieved in real life.
My ford ranger at stock standard but never got close to the claimed economy figures from Ford, and most of my driving is on country roads, with very little stop starting.And unlike my wife, I am not a leadfoot.
I bet if the Leaf driver had driven really conservatively,s ay never above 75 kmhr, and just tiptoed around, never used heater, the lights or the aircon system, the driver may have approached the claimed range.
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
Grandiose marketing claims probably not confined to EV's.
The claimed economy/range of most vehicles is rarely achieved in real life.
My ford ranger at stock standard but never got close to the claimed economy figures from Ford, and most of my driving is on country roads, with very little stop starting.And unlike my wife, I am not a leadfoot.
I bet if the Leaf driver had driven really conservatively,s ay never above 75 kmhr, and just tiptoed around, never used heater, the lights or the aircon system, the driver may have approached the claimed range.
Mick
Click to expand...
actually my holden colorado diesel at always matched the claimed 8l/100 even after more than 10y ..I am driving smoothly, could get a bit higher now that i live and drive in VERY hilly country, from my carport onward
 
mullokintyre said:
Grandiose marketing claims probably not confined to EV's.
The claimed economy/range of most vehicles is rarely achieved in real life.
My ford ranger at stock standard but never got close to the claimed economy figures from Ford, and most of my driving is on country roads, with very little stop starting.And unlike my wife, I am not a leadfoot.
I bet if the Leaf driver had driven really conservatively,s ay never above 75 kmhr, and just tiptoed around, never used heater, the lights or the aircon system, the driver may have approached the claimed range.
Mick
Click to expand...

Not a great look was it ? Nissan took a lot of heat over that story. In fact there are other options to replace and upgrade the Nisan Leaf battery pack.

In any case at the time the story came out Nissan had a battery replacement deal for that model Leaf. It was around $10.5 K.

There were design flaws in the initial unit. It ran too hot.

thecarguy.com.au

Nissan Leaf Battery Cost – The Truth, Not Fiction - The Car Guy | by Bob Aldons

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Here's an interesting one on the changover of a Nissan Leaf Battery. $33,000? No! Try $9990
thecarguy.com.au thecarguy.com.au
 
How to turn trucks into electric trains.

In Lübeck, Germany, there's one of several eHighway test projects: overhead catenary wires, where electric trucks with pantographs can pull power directly from the grid. Thanks to everyone who gave so much time to make this video possible!
 
Neat trick, don't know why it wasn't thought of before.
The only problem I could see was with the professor saying that with the right electricity price it becomes viable for private industry to invest in the infrastructure and the extra cost of the trucks.
Once again it comes down to the subsidy requirements.
if its not economically viable you have to question it.
It's the old problem pf privatising the profits, but socialisng the costs.
Mick
 
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mullokintyre said:
Neat trick, don't know why it wasn't thought of before.
The only problem I could see was with the professor saying that with the right electricity price it becomes viable for private industry to invest in the infrastructure and the extra cost of the trucks.
Once again it comes down to the subsidy requirements.
if its not economically viable you have to question it.
It's the old problem pf privatising the profits, but socialisng the costs.
Mick
Click to expand...
The video said that the savings would pay for the additional cost of the trucks within 18 months, so it’s definitely economically viable.

The statement he made about electricity being at the right price, was just saying that if they charged the right price to the consumers, they could use the income generated to fund the cost of the infrastructure, so they are saving it wouldn’t require subsidies with the right sale price, they aren’t suggesting a subsidy would be required.
 
Tesla’s charging network has been self funded in a similar way,

e.g they set a price of 44 cents per Kilowatt of electricity, which is almost double the price of home charging, but about half the price of using petrol.

The extra revenue generated has allowed Tesla to built the largest charging network in the world, without any government subsidies.

there are smaller charging networks in Australia that sell electricity for as low as 20 cents, but these networks are slower, have less stalls, and in a lot of cases have received incentives to set up.
 
Tesla is implementing the upgrades and new battery technology they highlighted at battery day in Sept 2020.
Essentially they are introducing much cheaper, more stable and longer life Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries for the current Model 3 and Model Y cars. These batteries have no nickel or cobalt and far less likely to have runaway thermal reactions

They are also bringing to commercialisation a much improved larger Lithium Ion 4680 battery which will initially power the top range vehicles and heavy trucks. These are the new tabless batteries with zero cobalt which is a big deal.
While this video focuses on their use in cars they will also be critical in the mass battery packs Tesla will use for energy storage.



en.wikipedia.org

Lithium iron phosphate battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
The U.S and E.U not signing up to the U.K's push for the stopping the production of ICE cars by 2035.
www.smh.com.au

US won’t sign up to British push to ban new petrol cars by 2035

The Biden administration fears backlash over any pledge to phase out fuel-guzzlers as the President struggles to get his climate bill through Congress.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

From the article:
The United States is refusing to sign up to plans led by the UK for a global deal to end the sale of new petrol and diesel cars during talks at the Cop26 climate summit.

Germany, Europe’s largest car manufacturer, cannot sign up to the agreement while it is still stuck in coalition talks, which could take weeks.

The UK wants all countries to commit to ending the sale of new polluting cars by 2035 for richer countries and 2040 for developing countries, in a major announcement expected in Glasgow on Wednesday. But it has been in last-minute talks with the Biden administration team which is resisting the commitment because of concerns of domestic political backlash as President Joe Biden struggles to get his climate agenda through Congress.

China is also expected to reject the agreement, partly because Beijing is reluctant to sign a UK-led agreement while relations between the two countries remain at a low point.

The EU’s own deadlines on phasing out petrol and diesel cars are locked in negotiations among member states over its decarbonisation package, although individual states can join.

In the US, Biden has only this year set a deadline for half of all car sales to be electric by 2030 and reversed moves by Donald Trump to loosen pollution standards.
 
sptrawler said:
The U.S and E.U not signing up to the U.K's push for the stopping the production of ICE cars by 2035.
www.smh.com.au

US won’t sign up to British push to ban new petrol cars by 2035

The Biden administration fears backlash over any pledge to phase out fuel-guzzlers as the President struggles to get his climate bill through Congress.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

From the article:
The United States is refusing to sign up to plans led by the UK for a global deal to end the sale of new petrol and diesel cars during talks at the Cop26 climate summit.

Germany, Europe’s largest car manufacturer, cannot sign up to the agreement while it is still stuck in coalition talks, which could take weeks.

The UK wants all countries to commit to ending the sale of new polluting cars by 2035 for richer countries and 2040 for developing countries, in a major announcement expected in Glasgow on Wednesday. But it has been in last-minute talks with the Biden administration team which is resisting the commitment because of concerns of domestic political backlash as President Joe Biden struggles to get his climate agenda through Congress.

China is also expected to reject the agreement, partly because Beijing is reluctant to sign a UK-led agreement while relations between the two countries remain at a low point.

The EU’s own deadlines on phasing out petrol and diesel cars are locked in negotiations among member states over its decarbonisation package, although individual states can join.

In the US, Biden has only this year set a deadline for half of all car sales to be electric by 2030 and reversed moves by Donald Trump to loosen pollution standards.
Click to expand...
Its not about the climate, its about the politics.
mick
 
The Government sounds like it is going to subsidies V2G home chargers.
www.abc.net.au

PM says he won't force Australians out of their cars, as government launches its electric vehicle strategy

The federal government has announced its long-awaited strategy on electric cars — but it won't be setting a date for the country to go all-electric.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
From the article:
The federal government will partner with the private sector to fund 50,000 charging stations in Australian homes, in a bid to encourage more people to buy electric vehicles.
 
Another article on the current proposals.
www.smh.com.au

Grid upgrades, infrastructure rollout planned to handle electric car surge

The Prime Minister will on Tuesday reveal his government’s main priority will be ensuring the nation’s electricity system can handle the large-scale take-up of battery-electric vehicles over the coming decade while remaining reliable and affordable for all Australians.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
From the article:
The main priority will be ensuring the nation’s electricity system can handle the large-scale take-up of battery-electric vehicles over the coming decade while remaining reliable and affordable for all Australians.
The policy will include further taxpayer investment in emerging charging technologies that promote grid security and unlock additional value for consumers and electricity market participants.

Experts have warned Australia’s ageing energy grid could struggle if future EV charging is unco-ordinated, with additional generation and network investment likely to be required, increasing total electricity system costs.

Domestic sales of electric cars have risen at record levels in the past six months amid state government incentives as the industry forecasts greater price parity and consumer choice over the next two years.
While Australia’s take-up of battery-electric and plug-in hybrid cars has laggedmany European and Asian nations, new car sales data released in August showed 8688 battery and plug-in EVs were sold in the first half of 2021, which is more than in any calendar year.
Since last year, six more models under $65,000 have been launched in the Australian market, bringing the total available under that price to 14.
The federal government has been heavily criticised by carmakers and advocacy groups for its refusal to set targets in the sector and previous public ridicule of the technology. It earlier this year ruled out subsidising new cars to encourage their widespread take-up.
Federal Labor in March promised it would remove government charges on non-luxury EVs, including import taxes and fringe benefits tax, to drive down the sticker price for Australians who want to drive electric cars.

But instead, the federal government has let the states do the heavy lifting, with Victoria setting a sales target of 50 per cent of new vehicles to be zero emissions by 2030 while NSW announced an EV strategy to increase sales to 53 per cent by 2030-31. Both states and several others have also introduced financial rebates of up to $3000 for new EV purchases while some jurisdictions will waive stamp duty and registration fees.
Mr Morrison said the federal government would bring forward a package of priority market reforms to state and territory energy ministers to ensure the electricity grid was EV-ready. While the list of reforms is likely to grow as new issues emerge, it will start with exploring network tariff reform to encourage charging behaviour and infrastructure rollout that will support optimal grid operation, promoting smart chargers in households and tasking energy market bodies with partnering with governments on grid integration.

As part of a “fleet-first” strategy, which will encourage companies to invest in low-emissions cars and in turn flood the second-hand market with EVs, the Australian Taxation Office will investigate issuing updated guidance for business on the tax treatment of low-emissions vehicles to provide clarity for fleet purchasing.
 
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