Or just pricing, petrol stations used to do cheaper fuel on tuesdays to avoid the pay day rush, no reason electricity companies can’t do the same.Legislative requirement ?
Who's sitting at home all day charging the car?
If we do go electric then it wouldn't surprise me if they jack up overnight rates. As everyone that works is going to charge overnight. This dream that there will be enough chargers at parking stations for everyone is just that. Then you add in factory parking etc and no doubt a shorter driving range on poor man's vehicles. Well there's a lot to sort out.
Lots of people, most people only fill up their car with fuel once a week, and could do that on the week ends, while they have a sleep in, or even while they are at their office, think about all the real estate agents, dentists, lawyers, etc etc operating out of neighbourhood type offices with parking out the back where their cars sit all day.Who's sitting at home all day charging the car?
If we do go electric then it wouldn't surprise me if they jack up overnight rates. As everyone that works is going to charge overnight. This dream that there will be enough chargers at parking stations for everyone is just that. Then you add in factory parking etc and no doubt a shorter driving range on poor man's vehicles. Well there's a lot to sort out.
Agreed.Mr Smurf,
I seriously doubt the issue is as simple as you assume.
Point one: the 40/60 split from the study is not representative of the population.who has EV now?
We have sprinkler days based on house number (legislated ? or forced by watercorp ?), why not nighttime recharge hours based on house numbers and just use a $5 ‘widget thingy’ on the power cable to ‘click on’ at a specific time.I didn’t expect the article link to prompt so much debate...
If the law permitted forcing consumers onto time-based pricing then almost certainly that would lead to a lot more choosing to charge their EV at times when it creates no issues. It brings about the price-induced fix referred to.
The problem at the moment however is that the majority are on flat rates, same price anytime, and in most of the country the law doesn't allow a distributor or retailer to force a change unless the consumer wants it. Some exceptions but in general that’s the case.
As per the research, a large portion of consumers aren't choosing to change of their own accord and therein lies the problem.
The issue is ridiculously simple to resolve but not actually being resolved. Hence the calls for action - but the trouble is the politics surrounding EV's isn't ideal there which complicates what ought to be straightforward.
And the other advantage is that you could over.charge a specific tariff for ev, with a road levy, an accident levy, etc etc once a sheeple, always a sheeple,. Sorry taxpayer...W
We have sprinkler days based on house number (legislated ? or forced by watercorp ?), why not nighttime recharge hours based on house numbers and just use a $5 ‘widget thingy’ on the power cable to ‘click on’ at a specific time.
charging during the day is cheaper with the sun out, or your own created electricity from your panels.
I think this is more the issue and is where the ground work is really being done, also where the investment outcomes are produced.Here is a short video explaining the zappi charger.
Not everyone has the luxury of being a lazy bugger like me, that basically rolls around when he wants.Lots of people, most people only fill up their car with fuel once a week, and could do that on the week ends, while they have a sleep in, or even while they are at their office, think about all the real estate agents, dentists, lawyers, etc etc operating out of neighbourhood type offices with parking out the back where their cars sit all day.
the fact is you don’t actually have to think about it, you just plug in and it will just charge when conditions are right through out the week, and if you notice it’s getting low you press the button and boost it up over night.
Also you only have to look at the timings of peak hour traffic flows to see that there are a lot less cars on the road in the middle of the day than there are in the mornings and late afternoon, so people could be charging while at work or after the morning school run etc.
Most people drive their car for less than 2 hours day, that’s alot of opportunity to be charging.
Easy, as I explained 9-5’ers can charge at night, there is plenty of time to charge between 10pm and 6am to recover the daily drive, remember not every one uses an entire tank of fuel every day, most use less than a 1/4 of a tank, so would use less than a 1/4 of a battery.Not everyone has the luxury of being a lazy bugger like me, that basically rolls around when he wants.
My biggest concern is 9-5'ers that are being pushed out of cities already and travel greater distances. With housing you now have two people working so both cars are somewhere else during the day. Or if you have millions of kids like me then you have multiple vehicles.
Separate question for the techies:
If you had a block of units with 100 car spaces or more and they were all fitted with chargers (obviously not every one is on charge). Then you get a hot summers night with all the aircon cranked. In a high density area with similar going on. Will this become a problem or is it manageable?
If we truly are speeding towards this direction, it doesn't feel like we are doing enough at this stage.
If you have multiple Tesla chargers in one location all connected to the same power circuit, they communicate with each other and adjust charging rates as that they don’t overload the circuit, I imagine it’s not difficult for other charger brands to do the same. Aircons would be a different circuit.Separate question for the techies:
If you had a block of units with 100 car spaces or more and they were all fitted with chargers (obviously not every one is on charge). Then you get a hot summers night with all the aircon cranked. In a high density area with similar going on. Will this become a problem or is it manageable?
If you ever travel to the colder parts of the USA, you will see entire parking lots fitted with power points used to keep engines warm in winter.This dream that there will be enough chargers at parking stations for everyone is just that. Then you add in factory parking etc and no doubt a shorter driving range on poor man's vehicles. Well there's a lot to sort out.
The short answer in a typical situation is:Separate question for the techies:
If you had a block of units with 100 car spaces or more and they were all fitted with chargers (obviously not every one is on charge). Then you get a hot summers night with all the aircon cranked. In a high density area with similar going on. Will this become a problem or is it manageable?
After spending a while in the startup pitch world, i can recognise pure BS from afar and this definitively oneI think this is more the issue and is where the ground work is really being done, also where the investment outcomes are produced.
Chargers are important, but having chargers that are compliant with energy providers is probably more important, if the customer wants to get any return.
I guess it is like everything, finding the sweet spot, not too early, not too late.
From the article:
About OVO
OVO is a collection of companies driving progress to net zero carbon living through harnessing clean, affordable energy for everyone. Across the group, OVO serves nearly 5 million customers with intelligent energy technology solutions to decarbonise homes. Founded in 2009 by Stephen Fitzpatrick, OVO redesigned the energy experience to be fairer, greener and simpler for all. Today, OVO is on a mission through its sustainability strategy, Plan Zero, to tackle the most important issue of our time - the climate crisis.
www.ovo.com
About Kaluza
Part of OVO, Kaluza is a leading intelligent energy platform powering the future of energy. From revolutionising billing to smart electric vehicle charging, Kaluza’s technology is empowering some of the biggest energy suppliers to better serve millions of customers. Its real-time cloud platform transforms supplier operations, reducing cost to serve and boosting customer engagement. Powered by Kaluza, suppliers can invest in innovating for tomorrow’s customers and drive decarbonisation with smart, low carbon technologies that not only reduce energy bills, but lay the foundations for a more flexible energy system.
The overall fundamental issue i see is from a general concept one..The short answer in a typical situation is:
If it's managed such that they don't all charge at once whilst the air-conditioning and other loads are at maximum then no problem, it's doable.
If they do all charge at once then, in the absence of a supply upgrade, it'll trip the breakers / blow the fuses and there goes all power to the building. An electrician should refuse to install such an arrangement if it's not up to scratch, but if it's just plugged into existing power points well then nobody can really stop that being done.
Same concept at a whole of town, state or national level.
Eg 45 degree day in Adelaide - there's effectively zero spare capacity in the grid around 7pm (indeed the infrastructure is barely able to cope as is fairly well known locally) but after that capacity gradually becomes available as load declines and by the early morning putting even 1,000,000 kW into EV's across the state wouldn't be a real drama, any issues would be purely local ones (eg a dozen EV's in the one garage etc). On a mild day it's not as extreme but the same basic pattern applies, there's a peak 6 - 7pm and far lower demand at other times.
Same basic pattern in all states with minor differences in the timing.
This chart of the load on centralised electricity supply, that is all sources except rooftop solar, for NSW shows the issue pretty clearly. So long as the charging isn't adding to the peak then no problem but if it does add to the peak, on a hot / cold day when demand already spikes, then that's a huge issue.
Green = load with scale on the right, purple = market price at the time with scale on the left. Solid line represents actual data for the past day, dotted line is forecast for tomorrow.
In states with a greater use of solar, eg SA, minimum load is around the middle of the day not overnight as in NSW (although NSW load around midday is certainly coming down as more rooftop solar is installed).
Source = AEMO
View attachment 126641
So there's spare capacity outside the peaks not only with generation but in the network as well and, given that there's generally no particular reason why an EV needs to charge straight away, it seems logical to make use of that existing spare capacity to do the job. That's the cheap and easy approach.
It's the same basic logic as saying that if you wanted to move lots of big wide loads at 20 km/h through the city well then police and transport authorities will be happy to facilitate it being done at a time when few others are on the roads, but they'd likely outright refuse to allow it if you wanted to do it during the commuter traffic peak when it would cause outright chaos. Much the same concept, if you're going to put a big load on and timing isn't critical then it's sensible to do it when not many others are using it.
That is of course assuming that the aim is to do it in the most economical and environmentally friendly way that works. More infrastructure could certainly be built, nothing precludes that, but it's $ and not without at least some environmental impact.
As you, @Smurf1976 and @Value Collector keep pointing out, there are existing solutions to every issue raised in this thread.I think this is more the issue and is where the ground work is really being done, also where the investment outcomes are produced.
Chargers are important, but having chargers that are compliant with energy providers is probably more important, if the customer wants to get any return.
I guess it is like everything, finding the sweet spot, not too early, not too late.
From the article:
About OVO
OVO is a collection of companies driving progress to net zero carbon living through harnessing clean, affordable energy for everyone. Across the group, OVO serves nearly 5 million customers with intelligent energy technology solutions to decarbonise homes. Founded in 2009 by Stephen Fitzpatrick, OVO redesigned the energy experience to be fairer, greener and simpler for all. Today, OVO is on a mission through its sustainability strategy, Plan Zero, to tackle the most important issue of our time - the climate crisis.
www.ovo.com
About Kaluza
Part of OVO, Kaluza is a leading intelligent energy platform powering the future of energy. From revolutionising billing to smart electric vehicle charging, Kaluza’s technology is empowering some of the biggest energy suppliers to better serve millions of customers. Its real-time cloud platform transforms supplier operations, reducing cost to serve and boosting customer engagement. Powered by Kaluza, suppliers can invest in innovating for tomorrow’s customers and drive decarbonisation with smart, low carbon technologies that not only reduce energy bills, but lay the foundations for a more flexible energy system.
Great site, great story. Watching how a city of 12million people can totally electrify their buses and taxis in a few years is impressive. The last few clips are also inspiring.As you, @Smurf1976 and @Value Collector keep pointing out, there are existing solutions to every issue raised in this thread.
On the other hand there are not enough EVs to cause a problem in Oz at the moment, nor a federal government that wants to proactively create a climate that facilitates a transition to EVs that has been underway in many countries for years.
Sadly we remain a backwater, and despite the government's rhetoric about innovation and job creation it has done very little to assist market sectors which have shown considerable growth overseas due to decarbonisation policies.
Or simply understand where the future lies:
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