Electric cars?

[mullokintyre]

Ford have started taking orders for its all electric F100 , the Lightning.
Lightning from Ford

Standard Range vehicles develop a “targeted” 318kW and 1051Nm, enabling an estimated driving range on the US’s strict EPA test cycle of 370km.

Extended Range models up the output to 420kW and 1051Nm, for 483km of estimated EPA range and a projected 0-60mph (97km/h) sprint time in the “mid four-second range” – though recent comments from US President Joe Biden suggest the benchmark dash could fall around 4.3 or 4.4 seconds.

F-150 Lightning buyers are offered four charging options, with the quickest of the bunch enabling a 15 to 80 per cent charge on a 150kW DC fast charger in 44 minutes with the Standard Range pack, or 41 minutes with the larger Extended Range option.

A 10-minute stint on the same charger can add 66km to the Standard Range battery, or 87km to the Extended Range pack.

The first deliveries are slated to start in the second quarter of 2022.
They are taking 7500 orders,.
I would buy one of these in a flash over say a RAM3500, or Diesel F250, or GMS Denali or etcc=.
Unfortunately, there are no plans to make a RHD model.
May have to wait for Tickfords FPV to start importing them and converting to OZ standards.
Would make a great towing vehicle to the van, provided I could keep it charged.
Unfortunately, its not possible to leave the driveway at the moment, much less leave the state.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Would make a great towing vehicle to the van, provided I could keep it charged.
Unfortunately, its not possible to leave the driveway at the moment, much less leave the state.
Mick

There quite a lot of charging locations, and they are growing rapidly.

you could tow a caravan from cairns to Melbourne if you want.

download the plug share app (its free), and you can find all the charging locations.

Also, if Ford does the same as Tesla, then on interstate road trips the car will find its own charging locations, you just put your destination into the navigation, and it plans a route that passes charging sites when needed.

 

[IFocus]

When the neighbour took me for a spin in his Tesla and removed all the wrinkles from my face from the acceleration I haven't stopped dreaming about one day owning one.

It was some thing to behold.

 

[aus_trader]

When the neighbour took me for a spin in his Tesla and removed all the wrinkles from my face from the acceleration I haven't stopped dreaming about one day owning one.

It was some thing to behold.

Yeah heard about that. I am yet to experience the electric motor torque.

 

[Humid]

Ford have started taking orders for its all electric F100 , the Lightning.
Lightning from Ford


The first deliveries are slated to start in the second quarter of 2022.
They are taking 7500 orders,.
I would buy one of these in a flash over say a RAM3500, or Diesel F250, or GMS Denali or etcc=.
Unfortunately, there are no plans to make a RHD model.
May have to wait for Tickfords FPV to start importing them and converting to OZ standards.
Would make a great towing vehicle to the van, provided I could keep it charged.
Unfortunately, its not possible to leave the driveway at the moment, much less leave the state.
Mick

The big thing against these trucks is fuel costs.....this could mean more parking hogs in shopping centres

 

[Value Collector]

The big thing against these trucks is fuel costs.....this could mean more parking hogs in shopping centres

What do you mean?
Charging an EV is much cheaper than buying petrol or diesel. and most people will just be charging at home.

 

[rederob]

When the neighbour took me for a spin in his Tesla and removed all the wrinkles from my face from the acceleration I haven't stopped dreaming about one day owning one.

It was some thing to behold.

This finding will decimate beauty product manufacturers who spend a fortune advertising anti aging and wrinkle eliminating concoctions.
Please send before and after photos to Elon Musk's advertising department to claim a reward.

 

[mullokintyre]

What do you mean?
Charging an EV is much cheaper than buying petrol or diesel. and most people will just be charging at home.

Charging is cheaper than buying petrol or diesel , but you can bet your bottom dollar that states or feds will add a tax, excise, surcharge, stamp duty or whatever they want to call it, so that they can "maintain the roads". The electricity is not free at home either, unless you have solar panels.
Secondly, no one has yet come up with the practical solution to the scalability of electric vehicles.
Everything's fine when there is a small percentage of vehicles that are EV's and want to charge, but there is a certain critical percentage where it all falls apart.
A 2021 tesla model S with the 82KWh motor has a range of around 530 Kms according to tesla.
To charge this Tesla from say half charge to 82 KWH, would take around 17 hours at a continuous 10 amp supply, which is what most household power points are rated at.
If you wanted a fast charge, say 2 or 3 hours, you are going to need 60 to 90 amps of current. Very few houses have a supply that is rated to take that sort of current. The other issue is that OZ network has set up so that a single transformer supplies 4 to six houses, and none of them are designed for one or more houses to extract that sort of current from the network. An average daily use for a house is 19 KW/h per day, but of course in summer when aircons, the pool pump, etc are running, it can shoot up to 40+ kwh, which is about half the 82kw/h that our Tesla needs. Energex has a standard that says 42kVa per household in new developments, so that is what people get, unless they pay for "prestige home access " of 7.0 kva. Most older housing developments would have planning designed much less usage than that. It will be difficult to see how large scale EV charging is going to take place under these limitations.
Mick

 

[qldfrog]

Charging is cheaper than buying petrol or diesel , but you can bet your bottom dollar that states or feds will add a tax, excise, surcharge, stamp duty or whatever they want to call it, so that they can "maintain the roads". The electricity is not free at home either, unless you have solar panels.
Secondly, no one has yet come up with the practical solution to the scalability of electric vehicles.
Everything's fine when there is a small percentage of vehicles that are EV's and want to charge, but there is a certain critical percentage where it all falls apart.
A 2021 tesla model S with the 82KWh motor has a range of around 530 Kms according to tesla.
To charge this Tesla from say half charge to 82 KWH, would take around 17 hours at a continuous 10 amp supply, which is what most household power points are rated at.
If you wanted a fast charge, say 2 or 3 hours, you are going to need 60 to 90 amps of current. Very few houses have a supply that is rated to take that sort of current. The other issue is that OZ network has set up so that a single transformer supplies 4 to six houses, and none of them are designed for one or more houses to extract that sort of current from the network. An average daily use for a house is 19 KW/h per day, but of course in summer when aircons, the pool pump, etc are running, it can shoot up to 40+ kwh, which is about half the 82kw/h that our Tesla needs. Energex has a standard that says 42kVa per household in new developments, so that is what people get, unless they pay for "prestige home access " of 7.0 kva. Most older housing developments would have planning designed much less usage than that. It will be difficult to see how large scale EV charging is going to take place under these limitations.
Mick

Stop it Mick, you are so boomer...reality is not restricted on a smartphone...
But true, good analysis..has been discussed a lot here

 

[mullokintyre]

Charging is cheaper than buying petrol or diesel , but you can bet your bottom dollar that states or feds will add a tax, excise, surcharge, stamp duty or whatever they want to call it, so that they can "maintain the roads". The electricity is not free at home either, unless you have solar panels.
Secondly, no one has yet come up with the practical solution to the scalability of electric vehicles.
Everything's fine when there is a small percentage of vehicles that are EV's and want to charge, but there is a certain critical percentage where it all falls apart.
A 2021 tesla model S with the 82KWh motor has a range of around 530 Kms according to tesla.
To charge this Tesla from say half charge to 82 KWH, would take around 17 hours at a continuous 10 amp supply, which is what most household power points are rated at.
If you wanted a fast charge, say 2 or 3 hours, you are going to need 60 to 90 amps of current. Very few houses have a supply that is rated to take that sort of current. The other issue is that OZ network has set up so that a single transformer supplies 4 to six houses, and none of them are designed for one or more houses to extract that sort of current from the network. An average daily use for a house is 19 KW/h per day, but of course in summer when aircons, the pool pump, etc are running, it can shoot up to 40+ kwh, which is about half the 82kw/h that our Tesla needs. Energex has a standard that says 42kVa per household in new developments, so that is what people get, unless they pay for "prestige home access " of 7.0 kva. Most older housing developments would have planning designed much less usage than that. It will be difficult to see how large scale EV charging is going to take place under these limitations.
Mick

I made a typo (actually probably made lots typos, hey I'm slysdexic). I said Energex has a standard that says 42kVa, should have read 4.2 kva.
Thats better.
Mick

 

[rederob]

Charging is cheaper than buying petrol or diesel , but you can bet your bottom dollar that states or feds will add a tax, excise, surcharge, stamp duty or whatever they want to call it, so that they can "maintain the roads". The electricity is not free at home either, unless you have solar panels.
Secondly, no one has yet come up with the practical solution to the scalability of electric vehicles.
Everything's fine when there is a small percentage of vehicles that are EV's and want to charge, but there is a certain critical percentage where it all falls apart.
A 2021 tesla model S with the 82KWh motor has a range of around 530 Kms according to tesla.
To charge this Tesla from say half charge to 82 KWH, would take around 17 hours at a continuous 10 amp supply, which is what most household power points are rated at.
If you wanted a fast charge, say 2 or 3 hours, you are going to need 60 to 90 amps of current. Very few houses have a supply that is rated to take that sort of current. The other issue is that OZ network has set up so that a single transformer supplies 4 to six houses, and none of them are designed for one or more houses to extract that sort of current from the network. An average daily use for a house is 19 KW/h per day, but of course in summer when aircons, the pool pump, etc are running, it can shoot up to 40+ kwh, which is about half the 82kw/h that our Tesla needs. Energex has a standard that says 42kVa per household in new developments, so that is what people get, unless they pay for "prestige home access " of 7.0 kva. Most older housing developments would have planning designed much less usage than that. It will be difficult to see how large scale EV charging is going to take place under these limitations.
Mick

Using your figures the total time needed for the average driver to charge an EV would total 7 hours a week or less than 2 hours per day:

It's hard to see that as a problem.

 

[mullokintyre]

Using your figures the total time needed for the average driver to charge an EV would total 7 hours a week or less than 2 hours per day.

At rate? At what starting point of charge? To what capacity?
Mick

 

[rederob]

At rate? At what starting point of charge? To what capacity?
Mick

Let's assume a car was charged over the weekend and ready to go anywhere on Monday.
The average driver will travel 11,100 km/year, or 215 km per week. That leaves a range of over 300 km available at the end of each week.
The maths on recharging to a 530km range suggest only 7 hours charge time is needed each week, using the average distances as a metric.

 

[mullokintyre]

It's hard to see that as a problem.

Yeah, well I guess if everything is average it would not.
But the real world is significantly different, and that there are peaks and troughs, days when demand is almost nil, and days when its over the top. if everything conformed to averages, we would never have blackouts or floods or lack of water crises or gridlocked freeways.
Not everyone lives in big cities with subsidsed public transport, nice roads, etc. There are some people who have drive 60 kms just to buy the groceries.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

Let's assume a car was charged over the weekend and ready to go anywhere on Monday.

Well theres ya problem straight away. Scalability. If everyone charges over the weekend, you have a massive spike in demand.
Averages, as useful as t1ts on a bull.
Mick

 

[rederob]

Well theres ya problem straight away. Scalability. If everyone charges over the weekend, you have a massive spike in demand.
Averages, as useful as t1ts on a bull.
Mick

This is old ground in this thread. Electricity demand on weekends is low, just as it is in the evenings during the week:

EV owners take advantage of the off peak rates each day - not just weekends - and it will take many millions of EVs to alter the present cycles. In perspective, less than a million new vehicles are sold in Australia each year, so even if every car from today was a BEV, our electrical supply could cope for the next 10 years with only some modification. I think we are capable of planning for BEV's such that it won't be a problem.

 

[Value Collector]

Charging is cheaper than buying petrol or diesel , but you can bet your bottom dollar that states or feds will add a tax, excise, surcharge, stamp duty or whatever they want to call it, so that they can "maintain the roads". The electricity is not free at home either, unless you have solar panels.
Secondly, no one has yet come up with the practical solution to the scalability of electric vehicles.
Everything's fine when there is a small percentage of vehicles that are EV's and want to charge, but there is a certain critical percentage where it all falls apart.
A 2021 tesla model S with the 82KWh motor has a range of around 530 Kms according to tesla.
To charge this Tesla from say half charge to 82 KWH, would take around 17 hours at a continuous 10 amp supply, which is what most household power points are rated at.
If you wanted a fast charge, say 2 or 3 hours, you are going to need 60 to 90 amps of current. Very few houses have a supply that is rated to take that sort of current. The other issue is that OZ network has set up so that a single transformer supplies 4 to six houses, and none of them are designed for one or more houses to extract that sort of current from the network. An average daily use for a house is 19 KW/h per day, but of course in summer when aircons, the pool pump, etc are running, it can shoot up to 40+ kwh, which is about half the 82kw/h that our Tesla needs. Energex has a standard that says 42kVa per household in new developments, so that is what people get, unless they pay for "prestige home access " of 7.0 kva. Most older housing developments would have planning designed much less usage than that. It will be difficult to see how large scale EV charging is going to take place under these limitations.
Mick

I have owned a Tesla Since 2019 so understand the ins and outs of charging better than most, and have already had marathon debates in this thread explaining the exact points you raised so I don’t want to go over everything in depth again, but here a a few points where you are mistaken.

1, there is more than enough capacity on the grid to charge EV vehicles provided most of it is done during off peak times such as at night, during the middle of the day, or weekends.

2, If you install the Tesla wall charger that comes with the car rather than plug into a wall socket, you can easily charge over night, if you can charge at up to 22kwh depending on how you get your electrician to set it up, but 6kwh charging is standard when it’s on its own circuit. But if you really drive a lot you can pay to get up to 22 kWh, it’s more expensive to set up, but if you drive enough that you need it, the fuel savings more than cover the cost.

3, most people only go to the petrol station once a week, so even using the slow power point charger they could easily maintain charge.

4, The fast chargers will go from 0% to 80% in about 15 mins if you need to top up out on the road, not 2-3 hrs.

5, again very few people would be using the full 82kwh every day, think about it, if you aren’t going to the petrol station every day now, then you won’t be using a full battery every day.

6, smart chargers could easily be used to balance out charging loads if needed, my Tesla can accept any charge from 1kwh up to 22kwh through the home Tesla charger, and over 200kwh at a fast charger, these speeds could be controlled by the grid to balance demand as needed.

7, the underlying cost of electricity is far cheaper than the underlying cost of petrol once you remove the petrol tax, so even with an added tax electricity would be cheaper, for example currently it costs me about 25cents to charge with the equivalent of 1 litre of petrol, adding a 30cent tax to that only brings it up to 55cents, and it would be cheaper when I use solar which I do 95% of the time, or if I connected my charger to the off peak circuit.

 

[Value Collector]

Well theres ya problem straight away. Scalability. If everyone charges over the weekend, you have a massive spike in demand.
Averages, as useful as t1ts on a bull.
Mick

Did you know some electricity retailers give free power on the week ends between 12pm and 2pm because of negative electricity prices on the week end, the weekends have large solar and wind gluts normally.

charging on the week end would be very good for the system.

 

[Value Collector]

This is old ground in this thread. Electricity demand on weekends is low, just as it is in the evenings during the week:
View attachment 127679
EV owners take advantage of the off peak rates each day - not just weekends - and it will take many millions of EVs to alter the present cycles. In perspective, less than a million new vehicles are sold in Australia each year, so even if every car from today was a BEV, our electrical supply could cope for the next 10 years with only some modification. I think we are capable of planning for BEV's such that it won't be a problem.

Yep to put it in perspective, my hot water system consumes more power each day than my car, and the off peak circuit turns on at 10pm each night in my area, so most hot water systems would be finished heating by midnight, that’s a lot of spare capacity sitting idle till 6am.

then you have the solar excess here in Qld that squashes prices from 10am to 2pm each day.

Energex here in Qld installed a solar limiter on my solar system to limit my exports, so if I don’t charge my car at certain times I have power that just gets wasted.

 

[Value Collector]

Right now as I type this Qld has negative electricity prices, and exports to NSW are maxed out, and it’s only 11.30. You can bet they would love have a hundred thousand EV’s plugged in right now to soak up supply.

I could be exporting an additional 1.6 KWh from my solar system, but I am being limited to exporting only KWH.