Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
- Joined
- 13 January 2014
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Tesla closed at $880, and I thought I was probably paying to much when I bought mine 3 months ago at $425.View attachment 118036
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Truly meteoric.
But if you thought that was good, well...
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It should be interesting to see if Tesla or Nio changes their charging model, or they manage to co exist, very similar situation to the old 8 track and 4 track cassette argument.
Thanks for the info VC, it is still good that there is robust competition, it all ends up improving the product for the consumer.If I had to guess, I would say Nio will drop the battery change concept, or limit it to a very small number of locations, the battery change model offers almost no practical advantages in real world life, but is alot more expensive to setup along with other draw backs.
Tesla already played with the battery change idea, Nio probably originally got the Idea from Tesla, but Tesla abandoned it.
I know driving up and swapping the battery seems like it would be super convenient, but in reality you would be far better off having the company install regular fast chargers, think about it...
1, When was they last time you used a full tank of fuel in one day, where stopping and supercharging for 15 minutes at some point that day would have been inconvenient? probably never, provided there is super chargers along your route.
2, If you did have an electric car, would you find it more convenient have the company install multiple fast chargers around the city in locations convenient to you, or max out its capital on one super impressive battery change facility on the wrong side of town?
Here is a video of Tesla doing a battery swap 8 years ago, as I said they have been there and done that, realised its not necessary, most people will never use chargers outside their home unless on a road trip, and on road trips they will use fast charging locations, so what is important is more fast chargers, not a few battery swap locations. People that can't charge at home will also prefer a wider distribution of fast or medium speed chargers at shopping centres etc rather than a small number of battery swap facilities.
Thanks for the info VC, it is still good that there is robust competition, it all ends up improving the product for the consumer.
Maybe a combination of both might work as in delivery vans, if they are sitting idle they are on charge, but if it is a hectic day with no idle time a three minute swap out may be advantageous.
The same with taxis, or maybe company pool cars, the advantage of having the option may be a slight advantage for some people.
The other thing of course is the ability to lease the battery pack and keep the car, just say you are like me retired and really only using the car intermittently.
If I could buy a car but not the battery, I could lease a battery that suits my needs, if it is only for trips to the shop etc a small battery would suffice so the lease cost would be minimal.
If I want to do regular country runs a large battery pack would probably be the option, which obviously would cost more to lease.
Both would be able to be charged via normal charging outlets.
Interesting times ahead IMO.
The difference is if I buy the car without the battery it would probably cost 40% less, so that leads to the issue do you buy a BEV for $60k with a range of 400klm, or do you buy a car for $35k and choose the battery range you want and can upgrade or change the battery lease at anytime?
It's getting a bit like mobile phone's and internet data plans, in the holiday house or indeed your own home, do you have the NBN connected at $65/month or do you run a dongle at 365GB/yr for $365?
Agreed, but when it comes to China they have as big a bottomless pit of money as the U.S, they don't have a floated currency.Check out this video of an actual Nio battery swap location, you will see it is not quite as fast or seamless as the animations make them look.
You will also notice there is some regular fast chargers right next to the swap booth, considering the time that the swap actually took, and considering the fact that it would require the driver to be there, I think on a road trip I would just choose to park my car at the regular charger and walk away, rather than mess about for 7 minutes swapping the battery and then have to park the car some where else anyway while I take care of my bodily functions.
I think the projected savings there are way higher than what they would be in reality.
It also explains why collective governments throughout asia (china especially) are throwing everything including the kitchen sink at electric car production as electric cars can indirectly run on the much more supply-secure coal whereas ICE cars cannot.
I believe it's also much more energy efficient to burn diesel etc in a generator and convert it into electricity than it is to burn it in an ICE vehicle too, so the fossil fuels literally go a lot further that way as well.
You are both right IMO, large diesel generators are around 50% efficient, combined cycle turbine generators are around 50% efficient. The difference being the diesel can go instantly to maximum continuous rating, whereas the combined cycle has to get correct steam temperatures before steam can go to the turbine on the steam set.Yes burning the diesel in a large generator is more efficient than using it to power an engine linked to a mechanical drive chain,... however skipping the whole refining crude into diesel part is even more efficient, eg just burning the entire barrel of crude in a super efficient combined cycle power plant.
Depends what you are burning the fuel through, a boiler not a lot of difference, the heavy fuel oil requires fuel oil heaters whereas light fuel oil doesn't, also it may require a change of fuel oil guns depending on the boilers.Ah yep, here I thought you were talking about still burning refined fuels like they're currently doing with all the on-site generators.
Do you know much about the big crude burning power plants? I'd be interested to hear if they need to be designed differently for different grades of crude, light/heavy, sweet/sour etc etc?
To my mind it would be very silly to have a plant that could run on light/sweet but not heavy/sour but I'm not a powerplant engineer so I have no idea if such a thing is actually possible.
I ask because shale crude (which I suspect you know) is a very different grade to conventional crude and shale crude, whilst it might be expensive if the conventional stuff is no longer available, may soon be the only stuff the asians can actually get their hands on, so if a powerplant can't actually use it then they'd be in quite the jam.
If powerplants can't run on all grades of crude then that would only give them even more impetus to get off oil entirely.
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