Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

Oh frog. Don't you know that the only reason anyone ever gets well off is privilege/unfairness/etc? Intellect, work ethic, decision making, sensibility with money etc etc have nothing to do with it.

You are spot on @over9k , the plebs think becoming well off is all about luck, then they head off to the pokies to find some.?

 

[Value Collector]

The other thing is, garbage especially recycling is very light by volume, so EV garbage trucks probably make a lot of sense. I have a mate who is a garbo, I will run it past him and see what he reckons.

And with most landfills having landfill gas electric generation, you could say the garbage trucks are fueled by garbage, hahaha

 

[basilio]

The other thing is, garbage especially recycling is very light by volume, so EV garbage trucks probably make a lot of sense. I have a mate who is a garbo, I will run it past him and see what he reckons.

EV garbage trucks are an exceptionally clear candidate for EV power
1) Very quiet. Big point when running around in the early hours.
2) Garbage pick up is a stop and start operation. Challenging on ICE technology. Excellent on batteries
3) Short overall trips. Don't need a huge battery for long trips. Can be recharged at base quickly

Honestly I'm surprised we havn't seen it happen already. I think the figures would make this an open and shut case. But it is coming.

Electric Garbage Trucks Are Finally Coming in 2021 With the Battery-Powered Mack LR

It might not seem like a huge deal, but this is a significant leap for cities and sanitation fleets alike.

www.thedrive.com

Australia's first fully electric rubbish trucks clean up in Casey

The first 100% electric rubbish trucks in Australia hit the streets in Melbourne's outer city council of Casey.

thedriven.io

 

[over9k]

You are spot on @over9k , the plebs think becoming well off is all about luck, then they head off to the pokies to find some.?

Nah nah trawler it's privilege.

 

[Smurf1976]

I would disagree for garbage trucks: perfect target low noice..think city night early morning traffic, start stop on regen brakes,etc

Garbage collection in urban areas is the most extreme example around of a large vehicle making very short trips. The average distance from start to stop is less than a minute's walk after all, the vehicle doesn't even get up to speed before the brakes are applied once again. Also there's a lot of time with the engine idling, doing minimal work driving only the hydraulics, whilst the bin is emptied into the truck.

Add in considerations of noise and that emissions are directly into densely populated urban areas and it's an absolutely perfect application of electric drive and regenerative braking plus a small diesel-driven generator running at constant load if needed to extend range.

Urban public transport buses are less extreme version of the same thing. They also do short distances between stops, operate in densely populated areas and spend considerable time with the engine idling. Not as extreme as a garbage truck but still the same basic pattern of use.

Both also have the common aspect of being parked for considerable periods each day at a depot. They aren't on the road 24/7 and they don't have a sudden unforeseen need to go somewhere in a hurry, their operation is entirely predictable and known in advance.

Buses and garbage trucks also have the aspect that their physical form does provide some gaps and spaces into which batteries or other equipment can be placed. Unlike a car or motorcycle where space is extremely limited.

 

[SirRumpole]

EV garbage trucks are an exceptionally clear candidate for EV power
1) Very quiet. Big point when running around in the early hours.
2) Garbage pick up is a stop and start operation. Challenging on ICE technology. Excellent on batteries
3) Short overall trips. Don't need a huge battery for long trips. Can be recharged at base quickly

Honestly I'm surprised we havn't seen it happen already. I think the figures would make this an open and shut case. But it is coming.

Electric Garbage Trucks Are Finally Coming in 2021 With the Battery-Powered Mack LR

It might not seem like a huge deal, but this is a significant leap for cities and sanitation fleets alike.

www.thedrive.com

Australia's first fully electric rubbish trucks clean up in Casey

The first 100% electric rubbish trucks in Australia hit the streets in Melbourne's outer city council of Casey.

thedriven.io

You could say the same for the Commonwealth , State and local government car fleets. Ferrying politicians from Parliament House to the airport and back is an ideal application for EV's. Why do they insist on inefficient petrol BMW's when a Tesla or Nissan Leaf would be much more efficient ?

 

[Smurf1976]

You could say the same for the Commonwealth , State and local government car fleets.

There was a case for governments to "buy local" when Holden etc were manufacturing in Australia but with that gone, buying something that sends the right message about emissions etc seems like a better idea than sticking to imported petrol cars.

 

[basilio]

You could say the same for the Commonwealth , State and local government car fleets. Ferrying politicians from Parliament House to the airport and back is an ideal application for EV's. Why do they insist on inefficient petrol BMW's when a Tesla or Nissan Leaf would be much more efficient ?

I agree. It does make sense in many ways and is well worth pursuing. But as Smurf pointed out the Garbage trucks and local buses are even more obvious cases for a change.

In the same vein check out the case for converting Toyota Land cruisers/HiLuxes into all electric vehicles for working in mines.

TEMBO – Global Leaders in Electric Conversion of Fleets

Tembo electric light vehicles are the premier 100% electric solution for fleet owners in mining, agriculture, utilities, government, humanitarian and tourism.

www.tembo4x4-elv.com

GB Auto signs $330 million deal to distribute Tembo all-electric ute kits in Australia

GB Auto secures deal to become exclusive Australian distributor of Tembo electric ute conversion kits, targeting A$330 million in sales by 2025.

thedriven.io

 

[Value Collector]

Electric cars will still have the same running gear as petrol powered vehicles i.e
gearbox,crankshaft,pistons and diffs etc so basically the mechanicals would be the same.

Nope, they don’t have any of those things.

 

[qldfrog]

There was a case for governments to "buy local" when Holden etc were manufacturing in Australia but with that gone, buying something that sends the right message about emissions etc seems like a better idea than sticking to imported petrol cars.

@Smurf1976 il would not take you long to prove that CO2 emissions of their Tesla is higher than their beemer while in Australia
.the extra cost ..(as i doubt that they would buy Nissan leaf or MGs) would bring a backlash..deserved in my opinion

 

[over9k]

 

[sptrawler]

VW to develop charging robots, interesting concept.

Volkswagen's mobile EV charging robot unveiled

Will this speed up the adoption of electric cars?

www.drive.com.au

From the article:
With many people lacking access to charging stations at home or the office – and limited charging spots available in car parks – VW believes its mobile charging robot is what the EV market needs to quickly expand charging infrastructure and drive wider consumer uptake of electric vehicles.

Focusing on restricted parking areas such as underground car parks and apartment blocks, VW’s mobile robot will be able to charge multiple vehicles at once, all without the need for specific charging spaces or drivers plugging in the car themselves.

Starting via an app or through the vehicle’s onboard Car-to-X functionality, the robot will autonomously navigate to the car to communicate with and charge it, including opening the charging flap, connecting the plug and uncoupling it when complete.

Capable of charging multiple EVs simultaneously, the robot moves a mobile energy storage unit to each vehicle, automatically connects it and leaves the battery pack with the car. Meanwhile, it will steer other mobile units around to other EVs needing a top up. Once charging is finished, the robot collects each unit and returns it to the central charging station.

Volkswagen claims the system will remove the need for dedicated charging spots and allow car park owners and operators to ‘electrify’ every parking space without the need for extensive construction.

I wonder if it will have hoon avoidance mode, so it can get away, when being chased by a hoon driving a V8. ?

 

[qldfrog]

VW to develop charging robots, interesting concept.

Volkswagen's mobile EV charging robot unveiled

Will this speed up the adoption of electric cars?

www.drive.com.au

From the article:
With many people lacking access to charging stations at home or the office – and limited charging spots available in car parks – VW believes its mobile charging robot is what the EV market needs to quickly expand charging infrastructure and drive wider consumer uptake of electric vehicles.

Focusing on restricted parking areas such as underground car parks and apartment blocks, VW’s mobile robot will be able to charge multiple vehicles at once, all without the need for specific charging spaces or drivers plugging in the car themselves.

Starting via an app or through the vehicle’s onboard Car-to-X functionality, the robot will autonomously navigate to the car to communicate with and charge it, including opening the charging flap, connecting the plug and uncoupling it when complete.

Capable of charging multiple EVs simultaneously, the robot moves a mobile energy storage unit to each vehicle, automatically connects it and leaves the battery pack with the car. Meanwhile, it will steer other mobile units around to other EVs needing a top up. Once charging is finished, the robot collects each unit and returns it to the central charging station.

Volkswagen claims the system will remove the need for dedicated charging spots and allow car park owners and operators to ‘electrify’ every parking space without the need for extensive construction.

I wonder if it will have hoon avoidance mode, so it can get away, when being chased by a hoon driving a V8. ?

So remind me:
Grid to robot battery
16% energy loss
,robot burning energy to go from car to car

then

Robot battery to car battery
Another 16%

And car battery to motor
,And another 16% conservatively before powering the motor
You are nearing ICE waste now, just been charged more pun intended

 

[over9k]

I know electric stuff gets all kinds of subsidies but at the same time, I also like to think that electrical engineers know what they're doing frog.

I long ago thought it all hinged on battery tech and my opinion hasn't changed. So with that being said, battery tech's going to get endless funding (both public and private) until we figure it out. Like money for nasa to land a guy on the moon, money is just going to keep pouring in until it's done.



I hold all four, no intentions of selling any. You can guarantee that the first biden budget has a massive renewable-this, green-that etc etc provision in it.

Even china, india etc want electric cars just as a smog/air quality thing. There's massive tax subsidies and so forth even over there. This stuff is not going away no matter what any of our opinions on it are.

Just ride the wave.

 

[Smurf1976]

I long ago thought it all hinged on battery tech and my opinion hasn't changed.

Ultimately what it all comes down to is making batteries that are physically smaller and lighter per unit of capacity than at present.

That's it really.

Electric cars as such work.

Batteries work.

Problem is that a battery able to store enough energy to move the car a long distance is heavier and physically larger than is desirable and it's also rather expensive. Those are the bits where improvement is desirable.

It's much the same as other technology. Lots of things were able to be done years or even decades before they became common, the limiting factor to widespread use was finding a way to make the equipment small and cheap enough to be practical. Pretty much all modern technology went through that before it saw mass adoption.

 

[qldfrog]

I know electric stuff gets all kinds of subsidies but at the same time, I also like to think that electrical engineers know what they're doing frog.

They do, and as an engineer and it geek, the ai, tech for the robots are amazing.it is just that i am fed up of the narrative EV are green good for the environment etc etc
As they are most EVs are as polluting as ICE, just not in the location.Which can be a plus aka smog etc
But please let's stop this charade about caring for the planet and buying an EV.
It is a general problem, since people started branding diesel as bad vs petrol in the name of environment, any half decent engineer knows the efficiency are by far favoring diesel.
So be it ev, diesel vs petrol, co2 effect in CC or more lately covid numbers, i am just fed up of narratives winning over truth every time, and a dumb population swallowing it all.journalists are no where to be seen and any real scientist has to sjut up or loose his/her professional future.only old farts like me can speak up as they do not need a new contract but ehh we are old farts so can not know
In that case,these charging robots are great but do increase by 2 the losses due to battery charge discharge and in term of CC might end up comparable to ice useage.
It is a solution but not to CC.

 

[rederob]

As @qldfrog has me blocked, I will nevertheless comment on his claims which time and again have been scientifically debunked:

"As they are most EVs are as polluting as ICE, just not in the location. Which can be a plus aka smog etc​

But please let's stop this charade about caring for the planet and buying an EV."​

First, if the electrical power source is mostly fossil fuel, then BEVs only advantage is to the driver's locality via cleaner air. Nevertheless, health system advantages of cleaner air in cities can be seen in literally thousands of scientific papers, so it's unwise to discount this clear benefit.
Second, as the renewables mix increases, the CO2 footprint begins to significantly favour BEVs over ICEs.
Third, much of the data sets a limit of "x" km for their respective vehicle comparisons. However, batteries are already being repurposed after they have ben removed from BEVs, so the CO2 footprint of battery manufacture should be factored in via "life cycle" comparisons, but never is.
Last, FCEVs may well be the long term winner despite BEV's current advantage, so there is not a lot of sense in continuing to back fossil fuel based losers.

"So be it ev, diesel vs petrol, co2 effect in CC or more lately covid numbers, i am just fed up of narratives winning over truth every time, and a dumb population swallowing it all.journalists are no where to be seen and any real scientist has to sjut up or loose his/her professional future.only old farts like me can speak up as they do not need a new contract but ehh we are old farts so can not know"​

Science has been winning in all the cases @qldfrog mentions. For posters to be credible, they need to show what information they are relying on. I have in the past provided dozens of links on these matters. The thing is, since then the case for EVs in general has only improved. Battery production is not just getting cheaper, but energy output is also improving.

"In that case,these charging robots are great but do increase by 2 the losses due to battery charge discharge and in term of CC might end up comparable to ice useage.​

It is a solution but not to CC. "​

Grateful for a translation into a meaningful sense.

 

[moXJO]

I'm not seeing battery tech getting much cheaper at the moment on domestic stuff. We haven't seen anything new in battery tech for about a decade thats made it to mass market.

Generally you see it on battery tools first where it gets put through the paces. I think dewalt was the last with the 54v that could switch to 18v. Same batteries though. Its still just a bunch of aa batteries lumped together.

 

[rederob]

I'm not seeing battery tech getting much cheaper at the moment on domestic stuff. We haven't seen anything new in battery tech for about a decade thats made it to mass market.

Generally you see it on battery tools first where it gets put through the paces. I think dewalt was the last with the 54v that could switch to 18v. Same batteries though. Its still just a bunch of aa batteries lumped together.

Not sure what your reference base is, but there is this to prove a point:


Battery megafactories (or as Tesla calls them, "gigafactories") are getting more price competitive as not only more are being built - mostly in China - but as more productivity improvements are being made to them, aside from improvements in battery technology itself.

 

[moXJO]

Not sure what your reference base is, but there is this to prove a point:
View attachment 117772

Battery megafactories (or as Tesla calls them, "gigafactories") are getting more price competitive as not only more are being built - mostly in China - but as more productivity improvements are being made to them, aside from improvements in battery technology itself.

Is it translating to the domestic market because I'm not seeing a lot of change. It wasn't a statement of fact. More that I haven't seen much development on the consumer side. In fact I've had more battery problems then I've had previously.

You're the man to go to when I want green tech hope.
or an argument...