Electric cars?

[Userman]

Ideanomics Sponsorship in NACFE, Prepares to Launch Medici Motor Works in North America​

NACFE sponsors represent a broad range of EV-related stakeholders from manufacturers, OEMs, fleet operators, energy companies, utilities, government and non-government agencies.

NEW YORK, -- Ideanomics (NASDAQ: IDEX) announced its sponsorship in the North American Council for Freight Efficiency (NACFE). As Ideanomics prepares to launch its heavy truck and specialty electric vehicle unit, Medici Motor Works, in North America in 2021, it was imperative that the Company work with stakeholders and advocacy groups to understand the opportunities unique to the region.

NACFE is an unbiased, non-profit, organization that works with major stakeholders across North America's freight industry. It works with fleet operators, manufacturers, shippers, software providers, governments, associations, etc., and its mission is to double freight efficiency and progress towards zero-emissions. NACFE conducts studies and uses data analysis to drive the development and adoption of efficiency-enhancing, environmentally beneficial, and cost-effective technologies, services, and methodologies.

"NACFE takes a holistic approach to electric vehicle (EV) adoption and brings together important and influential companies in the freight industry," said Ideanomics CEO Alf Poor. "Our participation in NACFE will enable us to better understand the North American market at both a local and national level and, with this knowledge, improve the development and growth of our businesses in the EV space, which includes our MEG division, Medici Motor Works, and WAVE."

Ideanomics Announces Its Sponsorship in NACFE, a Non-Profit Organization Focused on the North American Freight Industry

Ideanomics (NASDAQ: IDEX) ("Ideanomics" or the "Company") is pleased to announce its sponsorship in the North American Council for Freight Efficiency (NACFE). As Ideanomics prepares to launch its...

investors.ideanomics.com

 

[Value Collector]

No, but you do get to see exactly how he is doing everything, if you build and fit out the factory for him.
Well worth the pocket change it would have cost the Chinese Government, also you keep abreast of any developments that come about.
All you haven't got a handle on is the chip, which is where you spend your R&D, not on the whole article.
Only my thoughts.

Why bother reverse engineering when you can just tax the operation and get 30% of the profits anyway.

 

[over9k]

Cross-post:

TSMC's beat even the hugely inflated expectations:

 

[sptrawler]

Why bother reverse engineering when you can just tax the operation and get 30% of the profits anyway.

Thats easy, they dont want the money, they are a regulated currency so it means nothing, they can just print it with out worrying about cross rate problems.
They are trying to become world leaders in manufacturing, the issue they have is what Japan had in the 1960s, Jap crap Chinese junk.
It took the Japanese a long time to develop the technology and have it accepted.
So China just want to fast track the process, what better way, than build your best competitors a manufacturing plant?
Tesla wont care, tbey get the profit margin and can shut down the U.S plant.
I read the other day Tesla has been offered a deal to build a space x launch facility in Indonesia.
It will be interesting to see if Tesla build a second plant in the U.S as demand ramps up.

 

[over9k]

It will be interesting to see if Tesla build a second plant in the U.S as demand ramps up.

Not a shadow of doubt in my mind that we'll see that.

TSMC were just approved for a U.S based microchip plant too: https://www.extremetech.com/electro...open-3-5-billion-semiconductor-fab-in-arizona

There's a LOT of proposed/planned factories (for all types of things) in the US's approval queue.

The world is moving back to a build-where-you-sell model.

 

[sptrawler]

Not a shadow of doubt in my mind that we'll see that.

TSMC were just approved for a U.S based microchip plant too: https://www.extremetech.com/electro...open-3-5-billion-semiconductor-fab-in-arizona

There's a LOT of proposed/planned factories (for all types of things) in the US's approval queue.

The world is moving back to a build-where-you-sell model.

Well it is the only way that living standards will be improved, sharing the manufacturing base, shares the profits and share s the wages.

 

[Value Collector]

Thats easy, they dont want the money, they are a regulated currency so it means nothing, they can just print it with out worrying about cross rate problems.
They are trying to become world leaders in manufacturing, the issue they have is what Japan had in the 1960s, Jap crap Chinese junk.
It took the Japanese a long time to develop the technology and have it accepted.
So China just want to fast track the process, what better way, than build your best competitors a manufacturing plant?
Tesla wont care, tbey get the profit margin and can shut down the U.S plant.
I read the other day Tesla has been offered a deal to build a space x launch facility in Indonesia.
It will be interesting to see if Tesla build a second plant in the U.S as demand ramps up.

You can be the world leader in manufacturing by attracting the world best manufacturers to build their plants in your country.

you don’t need to be reverse engineering.

but at the end of the day, brand is important Coca Cola out sells it competitors not because of the secret formula in the safe in Atlanta but because of marketing and brand loyalty.

 

[over9k]

It's young people which are the consumers in an economy. China's had a baby bust, ergo no young consumers, ergo it needs to do something to attract business investment.

If you aren't an attractive place to invest, you need to do something to change that - it can be as simple as tax breaks.

 

[over9k]

SOXL ran 6.5% and then a further 1.2% in aftermarket trading last night on the TSMC news just for everyone's information.

I still haven't sold and I won't until there's any kind of news of manufacturing catching up to backorders.

 

[over9k]

Other musings about electric cars:

There's way more copper in an electric car (for what I would hope are obvious reasons) so more electric cars = more copper demand. Not effecting things dramatically now, but once electric cars sell in significant numbers...

Might be worth buying copper miners as a long term play. It's the exact same follow-on effect as microchips that we were discussing, and for the same reasons.

Copper itself is already at a 7 year high.

 

[Value Collector]

Other musings about electric cars:

There's way more copper in an electric car (for what I would hope are obvious reasons) so more electric cars = more copper demand. Not effecting things dramatically now, but once electric cars sell in significant numbers...

Might be worth buying copper miners as a long term play. It's the exact same follow-on effect as microchips that we were discussing, and for the same reasons.

Copper itself is already at a 7 year high.

with BHP you get Copper and Nickel, both of which will increase in demand with EV’s.

 

[over9k]

Mmm might need to spend a morning looking into who supplies what.

 

[Value Collector]

Mmm might need to spend a morning looking into who supplies what.

Bhp have some of the largest copper deposits in the world, and are making big investments to expand their Western Australia nickel exports, not to mention they have an iron ore business that’s booming at the moment.

there are plenty of smaller speculative players out there also, but and established company like BHP with a good dividend policy is good to have in a portfolio.

 

[over9k]

Agreed. But I'm a degenerate, so I'm looking for some growth plays as well.

 

[Value Collector]

Agreed. But I'm a degenerate, so I'm looking for some growth plays as well.

Nothing wrong with that, provided it doesn’t impede your over all results at the end of the day.

it can be easy to chase fads and promises, and end up wasting lots of time and resources that could have been used in more solid investments.

 

[over9k]

Facetiousness aside, growth has absolutely massacred value lately:



With that being said, I'm not so silly as to misunderstand why. Interest rates will not be at 0 forever. The question is whether there's actually an organically driven growth play to be had, and if there is, I suspect copper is it.

All the other electric vehicle derived stuff like microchips & lithium have already shot up on account of what's gone on over the short term, the question just becomes whether the market's priced the long term in as well. Semiconductors, lithium, and copper are all at huge highs already with semiconductors and lithium in fact at all time highs. Copper, however, is "only" at a 7 year high so the question is whether that still has legs in it or not. Currently, electronic gadget demand is playing merry hell with chip and copper supply but that will eventually subside once we can all spend our money on, well, anything else again. Chips have very strong long term tail winds behind them even ignoring coronavirus (i.e there's the massive organically driven chip demand increase from tech changes in cars that we've already discussed), copper I'm still not so sure about.

Ideally I'd get both value and growth like I did with FMG (bought it as a value, it's been a growth as well) but things rarely work out that well.

Bottom line is that this require more, er, digging.

 

[over9k]

And in a beautiful dovetail of the previous discussion of supply security/the world moving back to a "build where you sell" model and this discussion about copper, wouldn't you know it, BHP & RIO are already trying to get a massive copper mine approved in, you guessed it, the united states:

BHP, Rio Tinto's new copper mine under threat

Mining giants Rio Tinto and BHP have a lot riding on this new venture, but now face a lawsuit from the indigenous community.

www.fool.com.au

And the challenge to stop it has just been thrown out literally yesterday:

https://www.mining.com/judge-denies-native-american-bid-to-block-rio-tintos-copper-project/


Looking at BHP's share price, it has tracked the rest of the market near perfectly with the dip into late october and then all the elections/vaccines/stimulus package/more elections news has just sent it, along with everything, up & up & up so to the uninitiated observer it'd just look like a simple market tracking parallel but if what I've mentioned above is true then there's much more to this/it probably should have run even more than it already has.

Yet, it hasn't. So either I've figured out something that the rest of the market hasn't yet, or I'm wrong.

 

[Value Collector]

Facetiousness aside, growth has absolutely massacred value lately:

View attachment 118547

With that being said, I'm not so silly as to misunderstand why. Interest rates will not be at 0 forever. The question is whether there's actually an organically driven growth play to be had, and if there is, I suspect copper is it.

All the other electric vehicle derived stuff like microchips & lithium have already shot up on account of what's gone on over the short term, the question just becomes whether the market's priced the long term in as well. Semiconductors, lithium, and copper are all at huge highs already with semiconductors and lithium in fact at all time highs. Copper, however, is "only" at a 7 year high so the question is whether that still has legs in it or not. Currently, electronic gadget demand is playing merry hell with chip and copper supply but that will eventually subside once we can all spend our money on, well, anything else again. Chips have very strong long term tail winds behind them even ignoring coronavirus (i.e there's the massive organically driven chip demand increase from tech changes in cars that we've already discussed), copper I'm still not so sure about.

Ideally I'd get both value and growth like I did with FMG (bought it as a value, it's been a growth as well) but things rarely work out that well.

Bottom line is that this require more, er, digging.

(at the risk of going over a topic I have written about many times on this forum)

“growth investing” and “value investing” are not two different things, they are one and the same.

a value investor doesn’t ignore growth, expected growth is part of a valuation.

if you think growth had massacred value, you probably don’t understand what it means to value a company.

but don’t just take my word for it, here is one of the worlds best value investors to explain it in 1 minute.

If you decide to put $1 into what you would call a growth company today, you should be basing your expectations on some sort of arithmetic on what you think the expected growth will be, how long that growth will take, and the eventual share holder earnings that growth will produce, and that my friend is value investing.

infact the calculations you are doing above where you were trying to decide if something is “priced in” is value investing.

 

[over9k]

I think you're taking the terms literally, not in their jargon-sense.

 

[Value Collector]

I think you're taking the terms literally, not in their jargon-sense.

I am just explaining what value investing is, and in the process explaining what I mean when I call my self a value collector, if you go back in this thread a little and see the post where I was estimating how many cars Tesla would have to sell to justify its current market valuation, that is value investing thinking.

“Jargon” or not, anyone that tries to tell you that “value and growth” are different things is just plan wrong or just trying to sell you something without understanding it.

if by “value investing” they really mean “net asset investing” or some other thing that sometimes gets confused with value investing they should just say that.