Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

Yes, Tesla should own all the charging stations like Toyota should own all the petrol pumps.

Commonality of charging adapters should be sorted out before it gets out of control.

No, I am in favour of anyone building and owning charging stations, its just he chose a vehicle from a manufacturer that hasn't invested in building any charging infrastructure, which limits his options.

If he instead chose a Tesla, he could still have charged at all those third party locations he ended up stopping at, however he would have also had access to Teslas chargers as well, doubling his options, and the car would have planned the route and stops for him, he wouldn't have had to be googling things etc like he had, and wondering if he would make it.

 

[Value Collector]

In 1901 40% of cars were electric and 20% were petrol, the difference is development of ICE engines has come a long way, batteries haven't, but I'm sure that will change in the near future.

Baker Motor Vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

History of the electric vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also the fact that the electric light bulb was putting the USA oil industry out of business and kerosine sales plummeted, so the oil industry supported and pushed the automotive industry towards gasoline as a way to save their businesses.

But, just like almost none one today would prefer a kerosine lamp over an electric light bulb, so to will people prefer electric cars soon enough.

People probably thought wiring houses and creating a national electric grid was a crazy idea when electricity first started out, compared to building a national electric grid from scratch installing car chargers seems easy.

 

[sptrawler]

Also the fact that the electric light bulb was putting the USA oil industry out of business and kerosine sales plummeted, so the oil industry supported and pushed the automotive industry towards gasoline as a way to save their businesses.

But, just like almost none one today would prefer a kerosine lamp over an electric light bulb, so to will people prefer electric cars soon enough.

People probably thought wiring houses and creating a national electric grid was a crazy idea when electricity first started out, compared to building a national electric grid from scratch installing car chargers seems easy.

No actually it was range anxiety, same as today, but as I said batteries will improve rapidly now the requirement for ICE to be phased out.
It is a very interesting history.

From the wiki article I posted:
Acceptance of electric cars was initially hampered by a lack of power infrastructure, but by 1912, many homes were wired for electricity, enabling a surge in the popularity of the cars. In the United States by the turn of the century, 40 percent of automobiles were powered by steam, 38 percent by electricity, and 22 percent by gasoline. A total of 33,842 electric cars were registered in the United States, and the U.S. became the country where electric cars had gained the most acceptance.[37] Most early electric vehicles were massive, ornate carriages designed for the upper-class customers that made them popular. They featured luxurious interiors and were replete with expensive materials. Sales of electric cars peaked in the early 1910s.

In order to overcome the limited operating range of electric vehicles, and the lack of recharging infrastructure, an exchangeable battery service was first proposed as early as 1896.[38] The concept was first put into practice by Hartford Electric Light Company through the GeVeCo battery service and initially available for electric trucks. The vehicle owner purchased the vehicle from General Vehicle Company (GVC, a subsidiary of the General Electric Company) without a battery and the electricity was purchased from Hartford Electric through an exchangeable battery. The owner paid a variable per-mile charge and a monthly service fee to cover maintenance and storage of the truck. Both vehicles and batteries were modified to facilitate a fast battery exchange. The service was provided between 1910 and 1924 and during that period covered more than 6 million miles. Beginning in 1917 a similar successful service was operated in Chicago for owners of Milburn Wagon Company cars who also could buy the vehicle without the batteries.

Acceptance of electric cars was initially hampered by a lack of power infrastructure, but by 1912, many homes were wired for electricity, enabling a surge in the popularity of the cars. In the United States by the turn of the century, 40 percent of automobiles were powered by steam, 38 percent by electricity, and 22 percent by gasoline. A total of 33,842 electric cars were registered in the United States, and the U.S. became the country where electric cars had gained the most acceptance.[37] Most early electric vehicles were massive, ornate carriages designed for the upper-class customers that made them popular. They featured luxurious interiors and were replete with expensive materials. Sales of electric cars peaked in the early 1910s.

After enjoying success at the beginning of the 20th century, the electric car began to lose its position in the automobile market. A number of developments contributed to this situation. By the 1920s an improved road infrastructure improved travel times, creating a need for vehicles with a greater range than that offered by electric cars. Worldwide discoveries of large petroleum reserves led to the wide availability of affordable gasoline, making gas-powered cars cheaper to operate over long distances. Electric cars were limited to urban use by their slow speed (no more than 24–32 km/h or 15–20 mph[37]) and low range (50–65 km or 30–40 miles[37]), and gasoline cars were now able to travel farther and faster than equivalent electrics.

 

[SirRumpole]

No, I am in favour of anyone building and owning charging stations, its just he chose a vehicle from a manufacturer that hasn't invested in building any charging infrastructure, which limits his options.

So should Tesla charging stations be required by law to service any make of ev ? Otherwise it would be like Toyota owning petrol stations that only served Toyotas ?

Electricity is the "fuel" that should be accessible to anyone, the same as petrol.

 

[Value Collector]

No actually it was range anxiety, same as today, but as I said batteries will improve rapidly now the requirement for ICE to be phased out.
It is a very interesting history.

From the wiki article I posted:
Acceptance of electric cars was initially hampered by a lack of power infrastructure, but by 1912, many homes were wired for electricity, enabling a surge in the popularity of the cars. In the United States by the turn of the century, 40 percent of automobiles were powered by steam, 38 percent by electricity, and 22 percent by gasoline. A total of 33,842 electric cars were registered in the United States, and the U.S. became the country where electric cars had gained the most acceptance.[37] Most early electric vehicles were massive, ornate carriages designed for the upper-class customers that made them popular. They featured luxurious interiors and were replete with expensive materials. Sales of electric cars peaked in the early 1910s.

In order to overcome the limited operating range of electric vehicles, and the lack of recharging infrastructure, an exchangeable battery service was first proposed as early as 1896.[38] The concept was first put into practice by Hartford Electric Light Company through the GeVeCo battery service and initially available for electric trucks. The vehicle owner purchased the vehicle from General Vehicle Company (GVC, a subsidiary of the General Electric Company) without a battery and the electricity was purchased from Hartford Electric through an exchangeable battery. The owner paid a variable per-mile charge and a monthly service fee to cover maintenance and storage of the truck. Both vehicles and batteries were modified to facilitate a fast battery exchange. The service was provided between 1910 and 1924 and during that period covered more than 6 million miles. Beginning in 1917 a similar successful service was operated in Chicago for owners of Milburn Wagon Company cars who also could buy the vehicle without the batteries.

Acceptance of electric cars was initially hampered by a lack of power infrastructure, but by 1912, many homes were wired for electricity, enabling a surge in the popularity of the cars. In the United States by the turn of the century, 40 percent of automobiles were powered by steam, 38 percent by electricity, and 22 percent by gasoline. A total of 33,842 electric cars were registered in the United States, and the U.S. became the country where electric cars had gained the most acceptance.[37] Most early electric vehicles were massive, ornate carriages designed for the upper-class customers that made them popular. They featured luxurious interiors and were replete with expensive materials. Sales of electric cars peaked in the early 1910s.

After enjoying success at the beginning of the 20th century, the electric car began to lose its position in the automobile market. A number of developments contributed to this situation. By the 1920s an improved road infrastructure improved travel times, creating a need for vehicles with a greater range than that offered by electric cars. Worldwide discoveries of large petroleum reserves led to the wide availability of affordable gasoline, making gas-powered cars cheaper to operate over long distances. Electric cars were limited to urban use by their slow speed (no more than 24–32 km/h or 15–20 mph[37]) and low range (50–65 km or 30–40 miles[37]), and gasoline cars were now able to travel farther and faster than equivalent electrics.

If we went back 120 years, early adopters of ICE cars would have faced the same arguments from horse owners as EV drivers do toady from ICE car owners.

EG. if you were an early adopter of an ICE car, people would have thought a national Highway network of high speed refuelling stations was a pipe dream, and most towns wouldn't have had petrol stations, and you can bet you would have had range anxiety.

But building petrol stations as the number of cars grew wasn't an issue, and neither will building charging locations, because its its quicker and easier to build charging stations, and you can have your own private one at home.

 

[sptrawler]

If we went back 120 years, early adopters of ICE cars would have faced the same arguments from horse owners as EV drivers do toady from ICE car owners.

EG. if you were an early adopter of an ICE car, people would have thought a national Highway network of high speed refuelling stations was a pipe dream, and most towns wouldn't have had petrol stations, and you can bet you would have had range anxiety.

But building petrol stations as the number of cars grew wasn't an issue, and neither will building charging locations, because its its quicker and easier to build charging stations, and you can have your own private one at home.

No one is disagreeing with you, it is just you said the oil companies put the electric cars behind the 8 ball, they didn't.
120 years ago batteries limited the usefulness of electric cars, the same as batteries limited the usefulness of early electric power tools, batteries have improved to the point that battery operated cars and power tools are viable.
You don't need to be so sensitive, it is called technological improvement, who knows battery cars may be a short lived phase.
At this point in time they seem great, but 100 years ago ICE cars seemed great, time will tell.
I think my next vehicle will be a BEV, by the way.

 

[Value Collector]

So should Tesla charging stations be required by law to service any make of ev ?

I don't think so, that would just make other car companies lazier than they already are, and clog up our network.

Otherwise it would be like Toyota owning petrol stations that only served Toyotas ?

I would be fine with that, especially if Toyota was operating them on a not for profit basis such as Tesla, and didn't force Toyota owners to use them.

Electricity is the "fuel" that should be accessible to anyone, the same as petrol.

You can't buy fuel at Costco unless you are a member, some trucking companies have private refuelling locations, the Army has private refuelling locations, I don't see why anyone that builds a petrol pump or charging station privately should be forced to open them to others by law, unless they are in the business of selling fuel publicly.

Food should be accessible to anyone also, however that doesn't me I can shop for baked beans at Costco without being a member, or dine at a private club without being member.

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Also, its only the super chargers that are dedicated to Tesla cars, the Tesla destination chargers (which there are many more of) can be used by anyone.

 

[Value Collector]

Let Me Explain a little about the different levels of Tesla Branded Charging and which are open to anyone and which aren't.


These are Tesla Super Chargers - These are Only available to Tesla owners, and can add about 50% charge to you battery in around 15mins, thats enough for about 3 hours driving, or they can take you from 0% - 100% in about 50mins (the last 20% from 80% to 100% slows down so its best just to charge to 80% and hit the road and stop at another charger for 15mins 3 hours down the road.

Tesla Super charger (just for Tesla brand cars)




But there are also Tesla destination chargers located in many locations such as shopping centres, parking lots, cafes, hotels etc etc.
These are slower chargers, but are often free. They charge at different speeds depending on what power source is hooked up, eg 3 phase power will charge at around 22 KW/H, but some only charge at 6 KW/H, but as the name suggests they are"destination chargers" designed to charge your car while you shop, work, sleep, eat , etc not so much for road trips where you are in a rush.

Tesla Destination Charger. (open to any brand of car)

 

[Value Collector]

I forgot to mention, Every Tesla sold comes with its own destination charger for free, you just have to pay an electrician to install it.



It also comes with a free mobile charger you can plug into any standard power point, good for travelling if you want to charge at a friend or families house, or other such spot, but its limited to 2 KW/h

 

[Smurf1976]

People probably thought wiring houses and creating a national electric grid was a crazy idea when electricity first started out

FWIW there was indeed massive scepticism about that one and a politics not dissimilar to today's.

When Tasmania decided in 1914 to jump in head first and build the first transmission grid in the southern hemisphere, the Australian Government issued some "official" and very stern warnings that the state would not be bailed out financially if this "risky" venture failed as the feds thought it would.

The state pressed ahead and the rest is history.

There's always been scepticism about pretty much everything electrical right from the start.

 

[qldfrog]

In 1901 40% of cars were electric and 20% were petrol, the difference is development of ICE engines has come a long way, batteries haven't, but I'm sure that will change in the near future.

Baker Motor Vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

History of the electric vehicle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

sadly, we have been saying that for a long time: and even the latest Tesla batteries, a HUGE step forward remain very very expensive
The amount of embedded energy in a litre of diesel or fuel is actually incredible.not as much as in a kg of uranium but still
The laws of physics are hard to break

 

[sptrawler]

Toyota to develop a fuel cell heavy haulage semi, for the North American market.

Toyota adds to hydrogen bet with North American fuel cell truck

The automaker did not provide a timeline for beginning sales of the Class 8 truck but said it would debut a prototype in the first half of 2021.

www.japantimes.co.jp

 

[Value Collector]

Wallmart has tripled their order of Tesla Semi Trucks, and has committed to make 20% of their fleet electric by 2022.

 

[qldfrog]

Toyota to develop a fuel cell heavy haulage semi, for the North American market.

Toyota adds to hydrogen bet with North American fuel cell truck

The automaker did not provide a timeline for beginning sales of the Class 8 truck but said it would debut a prototype in the first half of 2021.

www.japantimes.co.jp

based on requirement, H2 is the way, not batteries for that specific use

 

[orr]

Most contributers here are well aware of Sandy Munro. His latest corprate presentation on the EV future, for anyone not familar, is in my humble opion of worthy note...
cheers all..

 

[sptrawler]

Wallmart has tripled their order of Tesla Semi Trucks, and has committed to make 20% of their fleet electric by 2022View attachment 112832.

The more to the party, the merrier. The more manufacturers that enter the space, the faster things improve, which is better for the buyer.

 

[ghotib]

Errr... For a non-contributor who never heard of Sandy Munro till this morning, where are the corporate presentations and which one is the latest?

Thanks

 

[orr]

Thanks for caring Ghoti... And yes music helps, EVH has held the headlines and he was good, But I deeply deeply lament the loss of John MacGeoch, now some time back.

enough of the small talk...Sandy Munro? Just pump his name into YouTube. But Know who he and his associates are; Appreciation of the pedagree and all.

 

[over9k]

 

[over9k]

Anybody else buy nio? I bought at $17.76.