Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

Mercedes unveil hydrogen fuel cell long haul truck, should be in full production this decade, smaller trucks to be battery powered. Things are certainly moving along.

Mercedes-Benz previews fuel-cell semi with GenH2 Truck concept

The Mercedes-Benz GenH2 Truck concept previews a fuel-cell semi-trailer truck due to enter customer trials in 2023.

www.motorauthority.com

 

[Smurf1976]

Well whatever he is we need entrepreneurs like him to at least take some of the boredom out of life and make us believe that there are better times ahead.

Looking at what's holding EV's back, the reason why 99% of people don't have one, it's far more about "business" than "technology".

Supply chain, infrastructure, price. The solutions to them might be engineering ones but they're business problems as such.

Bill Gates didn't single handedly invent computers but what he did play a big role in was putting a computer on everyone's desk, that was Gates' stated aim at one point and ultimately achieved with a notable point that his own company didn't manufacture the hardware but rather, provided a platform upon which anyone could manufacture suitable machines that would all work exactly the same.

Likewise with EV's we need common charging infrastructure that works with them all, we need the public and governments to see the benefits and want it to happen and so on. If self-driving becomes a thing then they all need to play nicely together etc. Conceptually that's not too far removed from MS, Windows and the evolution of computing. It's about bringing it all together, new tech being relevant only so far as it's necessary to make that happen but EV's as such are already good enough technically.

 

[moXJO]

So both Steve and Elon have built multiple Billion $$$ companies, To say either are muppets is wrong in my opinion.

I didn't say they were "Muppets". I said they were wankers.

 

[SirRumpole]

Bill Gates didn't single handedly invent computers but what he did play a big role in was putting a computer on everyone's desk, that was Gates' stated aim at one point and ultimately achieved with a notable point that his own company didn't manufacture the hardware but rather, provided a platform upon which anyone could manufacture suitable machines that would all work exactly the same.

True , but they all used the Microsoft operating system so every computer sold was an income for Microsoft.

I wonder how much technology in electric vehicles is exclusive to Tesla ? Maybe the self drive software, but that could be subject to hacking and cloning. So whether the proliferation of electric vehicles by other manufacturers will be to Tesla as computers were to Microsoft remains to be seen.

 

[moXJO]

Huawei is going head to head with Tesla in making evs apparently.

 

[over9k]

This guy is starting to sound like a real piece of work.

 

[Value Collector]

True , but they all used the Microsoft operating system so every computer sold was an income for Microsoft.

I wonder how much technology in electric vehicles is exclusive to Tesla ? Maybe the self drive software, but that could be subject to hacking and cloning. So whether the proliferation of electric vehicles by other manufacturers will be to Tesla as computers were to Microsoft remains to be seen.

I think Tesla is more like Apple than it is Microsoft.

by that I mean that Apple and Tesla are both primarily hardware manufacturers, but also control the software side of things as well.

and Apple also makes money through services eg music, cloud, movies etc, and Tesla has similar options in the future eg robo taxi and virtual power grids etc.

 

[Value Collector]

Huawei is going head to head with Tesla in making evs apparently.

there is room for a few manufacturers, I mean there has to be a Samsung vs IPhone, coke vs Pepsi etc etc.

 

[sptrawler]

there is room for a few manufacturers, I mean there has to be a Samsung vs IPhone, coke vs Pepsi etc etc.

Absolutely there has to be competition, that is why microsoft had to bail out apple, one manufacturer taking over the whole shooting match doesn't work, Tesla outsourcing manufacturing to China will help advance electric vehicle development enormously.
China has a bottomless pit of money, their R&D will supercharge the uptake of EV's IMO, what manufactured product has gone up in price when China start making them. ?
Reverse engineering saves a ton of time.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think Tesla is more like Apple than it is Microsoft.

by that I mean that Apple and Tesla are both primarily hardware manufacturers, but also control the software side of things as well.

Agreed but I'll add "whilst having systems which need to work nicely with others".

An Apple device needs to access the same websites and send the same emails that a MS device does and it needs to be seamless.

A Tesla car needs to be charged using the same infrastructure that works with a Hyundai. If self-driving and cars communicating to each other becomes a thing then it needs to integrate flawlessly with BMW's and Fords for example.

Fail on that point of compatibility and the term which comes to mind isn't Apple or Microsoft but rather, Betamax (and every other proprietary format that Sony tried and failed with).

If there's one lesson from the past 40 years of technology it's to avoid proprietary formats that aren't compatible with generic mainstream ones.

 

[Value Collector]

Agreed but I'll add "whilst having systems which need to work nicely with others".

An Apple device needs to access the same websites and send the same emails that a MS device does and it needs to be seamless.

A Tesla car needs to be charged using the same infrastructure that works with a Hyundai. If self-driving and cars communicating to each other becomes a thing then it needs to integrate flawlessly with BMW's and Fords for example.

Fail on that point of compatibility and the term which comes to mind isn't Apple or Microsoft but rather, Betamax (and every other proprietary format that Sony tried and failed with).

If there's one lesson from the past 40 years of technology it's to avoid proprietary formats that aren't compatible with generic mainstream ones.

yeah, all new Tesla’s now use the CCS2 charger, which Is probably going to end up as the dominant plug, so Tesla’s can charger using most new infrastructure, however even though the plugs are the same, other brands can’t use Tesla superchargers (yet)

unless another brand starts investing and rolling out super charger network like Tesla does, and decides to do mutual charging relationship, it would be crazy for Tesla to allow other brands to clog up our network, when they aren’t making the investment themselves.

——-
off course though we can still charge using other chargers with simple adapters, if you want to road trip around areas that don’t have a ccs2 out let a $20 adapter can allow you to use the other networks.

but as I always say, most charging will be done at home.

 

[Smurf1976]

however even though the plugs are the same, other brands can’t use Tesla superchargers (yet)

This I see as an undesirable situation.

It means that, so far as other brands are concerned, those charging locations don't exist. Good for Tesla, not good for EV's as an overall concept.

Ultimately I'd rather see it pan out like pretty much everything else.

My generic branded desktop PC is working just fine connected to my HP monitors, Canon printer, IBM speakers and with an Apple iPhone plugged into it for example. It all works together despite the different manufacturers.

Or more to the point, my car runs just fine whether I put BP, Shell, Caltex or whatever other brand of petrol into it, I don't have to go looking for any particular brand of service station just the first one I see will do.

In saying that I'm looking at the end product, a world where pretty much all vehicles aren't using petrol or diesel, I'm not focusing simply on right now or a few years' time.

 

[Value Collector]

This I see as an undesirable situation.

It means that, so far as other brands are concerned, those charging locations don't exist. Good for Tesla, not good for EV's as an overall concept.

Ultimately I'd rather see it pan out like pretty much everything else.

My generic branded desktop PC is working just fine connected to my HP monitors, Canon printer, IBM speakers and with an Apple iPhone plugged into it for example. It all works together despite the different manufacturers.

Or more to the point, my car runs just fine whether I put BP, Shell, Caltex or whatever other brand of petrol into it, I don't have to go looking for any particular brand of service station just the first one I see will do.

In saying that I'm looking at the end product, a world where pretty much all vehicles aren't using petrol or diesel, I'm not focusing simply on right now or a few years' time.

There is nothing physically stopping other brands using Tesla super chargers, except for the fact that Tesla doesn’t allow them.

Quite simply no other manufacturer is putting in the effort to invest in a global network of chargers, so Tesla has no reason to allow other brands to use their network when those brands aren’t interested in building charging stations for us.

I mean if BMW started a major program of installing 100’s of chargers a year and were willing to open them up to Tesla’s, Maybe we would be willing to allow them to use ours.

but if the other manfacturers expect to sell cars and piggy back off Tesla’s charging network, they can forget it.

—————
Other brands do already have access to Tesla destination chargers, they aren’t locked, it’s just the superchargers they can’t use.

 

[moXJO]

there is room for a few manufacturers, I mean there has to be a Samsung vs IPhone, coke vs Pepsi etc etc.

They would hit the cheap end of the market surely. High end is pretty full.


Another I noticed was that shopping centres started taking out the ev charging stations?

 

[Value Collector]

Another I noticed was that shopping centres started taking out the ev charging stations?

Really??? If anything I have seen more getting installed.

maybe some abandoned chargers from a defunct company have been removed some where, but the Tesla super charger network has been expanding quite rapidly, and the destination chargers are popping up all over the place.

 

[moXJO]

Really??? If anything I have seen more getting installed.

maybe some abandoned chargers from a defunct company have been removed some where, but the Tesla super charger network has been expanding quite rapidly, and the destination chargers are popping up all over the place.

A few were taken out. One I know were getting vandalised. Not sure why the others were taken out. I don't think they were Tesla. Maybe waiting on higher adoption?

 

[Value Collector]

A few were taken out. One I know were getting vandalised. Not sure why the others were taken out. I don't think they were Tesla. Maybe waiting on higher adoption?

I do know one of the early for profit companies that started installing paid chargers has gone broke, and their chargers are being removed, you actually needed an adapter to charge your Tesla on them so they were ideal for Tesla’s.

but yeah there will never be super high usage of public chargers except for the ones on road trip routes or free ones, simply because most people charge at home.

 

[moXJO]

Some evs available in Australia:

https://myelectriccar.com.au/evs-in-australia/

 

[PZ99]

I've been looking for a EV with a 1000k range.

Something like this... https://auto.hindustantimes.com/aut...20-miles-on-single-charge-41597389288083.html

But it needs to go faster

 

[Value Collector]

I've been looking for a EV with a 1000k range.

In my opinion cars with extreme range like that are not necessary and will have more drawbacks than positives.

There is almost no real world practical benefits to having 1000 Km range, think about it, do you ever actually drive 1000 km's without stopping for 15 mins or so to use the bathroom and stretch your legs? probably not, you probably make multiple stops on that 1000km trip anyway, so you are better off having a 500 or 600 km range battery, and charge for 15mins somewhere along the way on a usual pee break you will make anyway, and then your battery will be 40% lighter, which makes your car more efficient over all and saves unnecessary tyre wear.

-----------------------
If you had 600km of range at the start of a trip (because you charged at home), you 1000km road trip would look something like this.

Drive for 500km (5 hours)
< charge for 15mins while you pee >
Drive for another 300km (3 hours)
< charge for 10 mins while you pee and grab a coffee >
Drive for another 200km (2 hours)


You will probably find that you normally stop for much longer than that in your petrol car anyway.

----------------

Last weekend I did a two vehicle road trip with family, Me in my Tesla the sister and brother in-law's car was petrol, people often mistakenly think that in such a road trip the Tesla will be the car causing the delays and inconvenience, however before the road trip even began my brother in-law had to make a special trip to the petrol station before we left that morning, where as my Tesla was full having charged over night, when we arrived in the town I was able to plug my car into a free charger right in the centre of town and walk away and enjoy family time, so I picked up a free charge and didn't suffer any time loss. (if there was no free charge 10mins at the Tesla supercharger would have been enough for the return trip)

Once we got home, I just plugged the car into my home charger and hit the shower, however the brother in-law was on empty by the time we got home and had to make a special trip to the servo and waste another 10 - 15mins of his time so he had full to go to work the next day.

The simple point is that refuelling a petrol car is something that most people a desensitised too, however when you look at it from the EV perspective, petrol stations are not at all convenient most of the time, and wastes alot of time, 8 hours a year on average, where as it only takes 20 seconds to plug into your garage once you get home, and road trips you charge the car while your off doing other things (bathroom, food, stretching etc etc)