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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Check out the the illustration at the 1.45 mark, it relates to my argument from a few weeks ago that refining oil uses electricity from the grid that

Bp states that nearly 10% of their carbon emissions come from electricity they purchase from the grid, this is on top of the electricity they generate internally at the oil refineries using oil and gas products.

 
SirRumpole said:
He rambled a bit at the end, but what a great review.
Click to expand...

at the 8.5 minute mark he touched on a fact as if it was a Pro, when I don't think he realised was a massive Con.

He mentions that a 50 Litres of petrol contains about 8 times the amount of energy as a 60 KWH battery, however he doesn't seem to join the dots and notice that 50 Litres of fuel does not drive a car 8 times further than 60 KWH's of electricity, because the petrol motor and drive chain are far less efficient than an EV, almost all of that extra energy is wasted, and the two cars have similar range, even though the petrol car is loaded with 8 times more energy.
 
It's just come to my attention that Jack Rickard has passed away a day or two back..
The thing that's hurtling toward all of us has got him at 65.
His capacity to see what Humanity is hurtling toward way way early made him a fortune few here can imagine.
God speed Jacko'.. you made me a much 'wealthier' human being.

The long back catalogue of EVTV... is there for those how want a lesson in seeing the future.
 
Value Collector said:
He mentions that a 50 Litres of petrol contains about 8 times the amount of energy as a 60 KWH battery, however he doesn't seem to join the dots and notice that 50 Litres of fuel does not drive a car 8 times further than 60 KWH's of electricity, because the petrol motor and drive chain are far less efficient than an EV
Click to expand...

As a general comment efficiency at the point of use is where electricity wins in just about all situations.

Generating electricity is inherently inefficient. The only commercial technology that doesn't waste a large portion of its input energy is hydro, which has always been highly efficient, but we can't run the whole world on that alone. Everything else is far less efficient.

At the point of use though well electricity tends to leave everything else for dead. An electric motor is vastly more efficient than a petrol engine for example and an electric heat pump is ~5 times as efficient as a gas burner and heat exchanger. Don't even try looking at the luminous efficacy of a candle, it's not even in the race.

Comparisons between energy forms can be highly misleading for that reason unless you're aware of and looking for the efficiency differences.
 
Smurf1976 said:
As a general comment efficiency at the point of use is where electricity wins in just about all situations.

Generating electricity is inherently inefficient. The only commercial technology that doesn't waste a large portion of its input energy is hydro, which has always been highly efficient, but we can't run the whole world on that alone. Everything else is far less efficient.

At the point of use though well electricity tends to leave everything else for dead. An electric motor is vastly more efficient than a petrol engine for example and an electric heat pump is ~5 times as efficient as a gas burner and heat exchanger. Don't even try looking at the luminous efficacy of a candle, it's not even in the race.

Comparisons between energy forms can be highly misleading for that reason unless you're aware of and looking for the efficiency differences.
Click to expand...
Heat engines and thermodynamics 101.:xyxthumbs
 
Smurf1976 said:
As a general comment efficiency at the point of use is where electricity wins in just about all situations.

Generating electricity is inherently inefficient. The only commercial technology that doesn't waste a large portion of its input energy is hydro, which has always been highly efficient, but we can't run the whole world on that alone. Everything else is far less efficient.

At the point of use though well electricity tends to leave everything else for dead. An electric motor is vastly more efficient than a petrol engine for example and an electric heat pump is ~5 times as efficient as a gas burner and heat exchanger. Don't even try looking at the luminous efficacy of a candle, it's not even in the race.

Comparisons between energy forms can be highly misleading for that reason unless you're aware of and looking for the efficiency differences.
Click to expand...

yeah, but also refining and transporting petrol is not that efficient either, especially if you factor in the electricity needed to do that.

So as you mentioned petrol is left for dead at point of use, but doesn’t cover itself with glory in its refining process either.
 
Value Collector said:
yeah, but also refining and transporting petrol is not that efficient either, especially if you factor in the electricity needed to do that.

So as you mentioned petrol is left for dead at point of use, but doesn’t cover itself with glory in its refining process either.
Click to expand...
How many petrol or diesel driven large fixed machinery do you see, not many, if you can get a power supply to it electricity kills it.
Even large mobile equipment, uses diesel generators supplying electric motor final drives, I have overhauled haulpack electric wheels and diesel loco's traction motors, over my working career.
I am noticing there seems to be a push happening, to increase the price of petrol driven vehicles, I wonder if this is because they don't expect the price of batteries to drop quickly.
Therefore rather than keep dropping the profit in BEV's, they will crank up the price of ICE vehicles, to make the BEV's more competitive?
 
sptrawler said:
How many petrol or diesel driven large fixed machinery do you see
Click to expand...
Excluding burners to produce heat, I've only ever come across 3 where an actual engine was involved and only one of those didn't have a reasonable excuse.

One was fixed but portable as such, being an amusement ride taken to shows etc in regional areas. Direct drive petrol engine to the rest of the machinery, no electrics involved at all. Normal approach with most rides like that is electric motors and a generator.

One was a petrol driven hydraulic system but it was only as backup to an electrically driven hydraulic pump. They'd chosen to have a separate pump and engine as the backup rather than a generator, thus removing the electric motor or its pump as single points of failure.

Other was truly bizarre being a chair lift powered by a two stroke engine. I kid you not and it gets worse - there was an overhead power line barely 10 meters away. Ridiculous yes. Almost couldn't believe it when I saw them tipping fuel into it from a 20 litre drum with a funnel. :speechless:
 
Smurf1976 said:
Excluding burners to produce heat, I've only ever come across 3 where an actual engine was involved and only one of those didn't have a reasonable excuse.

One was fixed but portable as such, being an amusement ride taken to shows etc in regional areas. Direct drive petrol engine to the rest of the machinery, no electrics involved at all. Normal approach with most rides like that is electric motors and a generator.

One was a petrol driven hydraulic system but it was only as backup to an electrically driven hydraulic pump. They'd chosen to have a separate pump and engine as the backup rather than a generator, thus removing the electric motor or its pump as single points of failure.

Other was truly bizarre being a chair lift powered by a two stroke engine. I kid you not and it gets worse - there was an overhead power line barely 10 meters away. Ridiculous yes. Almost couldn't believe it when I saw them tipping fuel into it from a 20 litre drum with a funnel. :speechless:
Click to expand...
So true, the biggest purely diesel driven machine was a ship, but now most ships use diesel/generator/electric motor propulsion.
Here is a link to the biggest diesel motor built for a ship.
https://www.zmescience.com/science/biggest-most-poweful-engine-world/#:~:text=This jaw-dropper is the,power an entire suburban town.
That is 80MW, amazing mechanical feat, much easier and more versatile to have 4 x 20MW diesels.
I have a valve out of a 13MW diesel in my shed, will make a great stand for a circular coffee table, when I find the time to make it.:roflmao:
 
Opposed-piston diesels are the crazy efficient ones. They're usually train engines.

Most petrol internal combustion engines make about 1/3rd output as work and 2/3rds as heat just FYI. The mercedes F1 hybrid engine was a huge deal when it cracked 50/50, and that's a hybrid.
 
I certainly hope these guys get this H2 car up and running, manufacturing to be based in Port Kembla, interesting article that explains our demise in manufacturing well.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/australia-turns-idled-factories-pull-233646064.html
From the article:
H2X, a startup formed in May, is looking to resurrect local automobile production by making hydrogen cars in Port Kembla, a smelting town about 100km south of Sydney.

Brendan Norman, the company's chief executive who previously worked on hydrogen cars in China, expects a prototype to be ready later this year and production to start in 2022. The operation is looking to employ 100 people by the end of this year, which could ramp up to 5,000 by 2025.

Norman said production could use 80% local content by 2024. That bet is based on a belief that Australia already has most of the skills and materials needed to make items such as supercapacitors and fuel cells, even if the manufacturing scale is not there yet.

"Australia can certainly compete in this because it is high-tech manufacturing and this is something that we feel we should be able to encourage to come back," he said.

"If we're producing the bulk of the world's hydrogen, I'd like to think that we can produce the tools that are required to use it properly."
 
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