Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 22.1%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 40.0%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 36 18.5%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.3%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.2%
  • Total voters
    195
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over9k said:
He says, to the guy that's literally been trained to perform the calculations he's trying to make his claim with.

Answer the question.
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You are definitely in Plato's cave;



The IEA report has done the calculations, don't worry about my overnight, back on the napkin numbers.

Stay in the cave, I don't care.
 
Chronos-Plutus said:
You are definitely in Plato's cave;



The IEA report has done the calculations, don't worry about my overnight, back on the napkin numbers.

Stay in the cave, I don't care.
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I asked you a question about rainfall. I'd like you to answer it. Answer it any way you like - calculations, reports, witchcraft, anything.
 
over9k said:
I asked you a question about rainfall. I'd like you to answer it. Answer it any way you like - calculations, reports, witchcraft, anything.
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Going off our discussions so far, the reports that you write wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on.

Start a new thread on rainfall if you like.
 
Chronos-Plutus said:
Going off our discussions so far, the reports that you write wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on.

Start a new thread on rainfall if you like.
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I haven't written a report on it. I'm not going to compare it to a report I've personally written or something like that. This isn't a trick question.

Please, answer the question.
 
So what do you reckon about this Osbourne Effect? I'm not interested in buying another ICE car and will wait for an EV that is similar on price.



Although in the mean time, not keen on getting bent over to pay $1700 for a dealer water pump replacement on a VW. A bit of back and forth ended up $600. That crap will be gone!
 
Sir Burr said:
So what do you reckon about this Osbourne Effect? I'm not interested in buying another ICE car and will wait for an EV that is similar on price.



Although in the mean time, not keen on getting bent over to pay $1700 for a dealer water pump replacement on a VW. A bit of back and forth ended up $600. That crap will be gone!
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Powerful stuff isn't it ?

Yes this is a clearly Tesla funded program. But that doesn't change the reality of what they are saying in terms of the future of cars. It will only be EV (or perhaps hydrogen ?) within a relatively short period of time. I suspect the announcement and production of the cost effective million mile battery in September will be the hammer blow.

In practical terms other car makers will survive. They will just have to move very quickly to EV cars. But the challenge to make this profitable is still there.

We shouldn't see Tesla as some sort of munificent God in this deal. They are there to make a big buck. They too will find ways to control their product and extract maximum value. But this is the future. IMV.
 
Chronos-Plutus said:
You are definitely in Plato's cave;


..

Stay in the cave, I don't care.
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What a head spinner we have here...:eek:

Chronos trotting out the Allegory of Platos Cave as he steadfastly attempts to "prove" that EV cars are wildly expensive in terms of energy infrastructure which in any case should be 3 squillion nuclear power stations.

And yet it just isn't. And this economic and physical reality has been repeatedly demonstrated across almost all people who have direct experience in the field.

Plato has a point. Interestingly enough a world that finally recognizes that clean renewable energy is the only way to proceed versus polluting, planet destroying finite fossil fuels is definitly a Plato moment.

And whatever one thinks there is no way Plato would countenance making 1 and 1 equal some fantastical amount - simply to justify some preconceived vision.
 
I think Chronos is copping a bit more flack than he deserves, what he is saying has merit, it is just everyone is jumping on like stacks on the mill.
The electric car is going to arrive and of that there is no doubt, however what Chronos says is correct also, it will change the demand profile but how that is managed is the key.
The problem is, just replacing existing power generation which is available on call 24/7 at the press of a button, with an intermittent source of energy and a finite amount of storage is a huge excercise.
Just meeting the existing demand will be incredibly difficult, add to that a rapid take up of increased demand due to electric car charging and the problem compounds.
The electric cars will eventually be a part of the storage answer, but initially they will just add to the demand problem, because there wont be enough to actually coordinate the charging regime.
An electric car on a fast charger is like a really big air conditioner switching on, lets not forget it wasn't long ago, that remotely operated switches had to be fitted to all air conditioners sold in Australia so they could be switched off if the system required it.
Like I've said before and I'm sure smurf will correct me if I'm wrong, this isn't going to happen quickly, but it has to be done correctly. There is no quick fixes if it is stuffed up, it has to be progressive steady and technically robust, it can't be done seat of the pants.
Just my opinion.
 
sptrawler said:
I think Chronos is copping a bit more flack than he deserves, what he is saying has merit, it is just everyone is jumping on like stacks on the mill.
The electric car is going to arrive and of that there is no doubt, however what Chronos says is correct also, it will change the demand profile but how that is managed is the key.
The problem is, just replacing existing power generation which is available on call 24/7 at the press of a button, with an intermittent source of energy and a finite amount of storage is a huge excercise.
Just meeting the existing demand will be incredibly difficult, add to that a rapid take up of increased demand due to electric car charging and the problem compounds.
The electric cars will eventually be a part of the storage answer, but initially they will just add to the demand problem, because there wont be enough to actually coordinate the charging regime.
An electric car on a fast charger is like a really big air conditioner switching on, lets not forget it wasn't long ago, that remotely operated switches had to be fitted to all air conditioners sold in Australia so they could be switched off if the system required it.
Like I've said before and I'm sure smurf will correct me if I'm wrong, this isn't going to happen quickly, but it has to be done correctly. There is no quick fixes if it is stuffed up, it has to be progressive steady and technically robust, it can't be done seat of the pants.
Just my opinion.
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Agree more a matter of form than substance, being technically realist is an issue for some and so the backlash but his error is a pretty insulting style.my view only,sadly he joined my list of ignore
Will check in a while
 
sptrawler said:
I think Chronos is copping a bit more flack than he deserves, what he is saying has merit, it is just everyone is jumping on like stacks on the mill.
The electric car is going to arrive and of that there is no doubt, however what Chronos says is correct also, it will change the demand profile but how that is managed is the key.
The problem is, just replacing existing power generation which is available on call 24/7 at the press of a button, with an intermittent source of energy and a finite amount of storage is a huge excercise.
Just meeting the existing demand will be incredibly difficult, add to that a rapid take up of increased demand due to electric car charging and the problem compounds.
The electric cars will eventually be a part of the storage answer, but initially they will just add to the demand problem, because there wont be enough to actually coordinate the charging regime.
An electric car on a fast charger is like a really big air conditioner switching on, lets not forget it wasn't long ago, that remotely operated switches had to be fitted to all air conditioners sold in Australia so they could be switched off if the system required it.
Like I've said before and I'm sure smurf will correct me if I'm wrong, this isn't going to happen quickly, but it has to be done correctly. There is no quick fixes if it is stuffed up, it has to be progressive steady and technically robust, it can't be done seat of the pants.
Just my opinion.
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I think he's realised he's cocked up and has dug his hole so far he needs to dig it back to plato.

He does not understand the very report he's using as his hill to die on.

Sir Burr said:
So no to ID.3?

BTW $50 extra for genuine and 2 year warranty clinched it over the VW expert down the road. Was an easy choice.
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Aftermarket parts are usually higher quality for lower cost. Hate to break it to you man but car dealerships make far more money servicing their cars & selling the parts for $ridiculous markup than they do selling the cars.

It's like how printers are cheap but the money is made in selling you the ink for 10,000% markup.
 
qldfrog said:
Agree more a matter of form than substance, being technically realist is an issue for some and so the backlash but his error is a pretty insulting style.my view only,sadly he joined my list of ignore
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I'll post something more detailed in a more relevant thread, let's keep this one for things with wheels on them as others have said, but I'll simply say this now.

I've never met anyone of reasonably normal intelligence who can't grasp the basic concepts when explained in layman's terms.

So long as you grasp that electricity has to be produced in real time as it is consumed, AC power cannot itself be stored, at best we can store the means to produce it, then beyond that it's simply a numbers game. So long as the ability to generate is always equal to or higher than actual consumption, and the network itself isn't overloaded, then it all works.

Since consumption is variable and supply has to be able to meet the peak, there's an opportunity to increase the use of existing infrastructure by adding load outside peak times. That's when water gets heated or in some areas pumped and it's when EV charging would ideally take place.

As a concept it's the same as the more familiar one of roads. During the commuter rush roads are at or over capacity in many areas but even in the inner city, you could certainly put more traffic through in the middle of the night without any real issue. Roads aren't running at capacity most of the time, it's only during the peaks when they are in most places.

I'll post more in an appropriate thread. :2twocents
 
over9k said:
Aftermarket parts are usually higher quality for lower cost. Hate to break it to you man but car dealerships make far more money servicing their cars & selling the parts for $ridiculous markup than they do selling the cars.

It's like how printers are cheap but the money is made in selling you the ink for 10,000% markup.
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Never truer words said.:xyxthumbs
 
Smurf1976 said:
I'll post something more detailed in a more relevant thread
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https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/the-future-of-energy-generation-and-storage.29842/page-221

From that post which is rather long:

So that's a real example for a day when Vic was very close to the limit, the weather was properly hot, but there was some wind generation running and coal+gas+hydro combined worked a bit better than should be expected and no major drama resulted.

Even on that day, just two hours after the peak demand had dropped ~1000 MW, after 3 hours it was down ~2000 MW and after 4 hours it was down ~3000 MW from the peak. So there's plenty of opportunity to charge EV's overnight even on an extreme day when supply was very tight at the peak.
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The detail and numbers are in the other thread for those interested in the maths but in short, there's big drama in generating power to charge EV's even in Victoria, the state that's in the worst position at present, so long as it's not adding to peak demand.:2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/the-future-of-energy-generation-and-storage.29842/page-221

From that post which is rather long:



The detail and numbers are in the other thread for those interested in the maths but in short, there's big drama in generating power to charge EV's even in Victoria, the state that's in the worst position at present, so long as it's not adding to peak demand.:2twocents
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Save the maths. I'm reading "big drama" an "Victoria"; how do I back-up my super into that?
 
I am more worried by the last mile than actual overall production
Very very similar actually to internet delivery issues and NBN
But let's stick to the wheeled ones.or the fact you can get quasi free ev on lease in the EU
 
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