Electric cars?

[Chronos-Plutus]

You appear to not have worked out that many who post here have a pretty good idea that things need to change, while you continue to be "winning" a discussion that nobody else is having with you.
I don't think others need to worry about doing your job for you given that it's between you and perhaps your better self.

I think I would be listening to experts who actually produce the reports that I have presented, people who put their real name to their work.

Many who post here have either claimed that the electrical consumption isn't anything to be concerned about or that it will be fine as the vehicles can recharge in off-peak.

Clearly not the case, much policy requires urgent attention for electric vehicles in Australia.

 

[rederob]

@Value Collector - a question, good sir.
If a Tesla had a flat battery, could you pull alongside and "top them up" enough to make to a charging point?

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

That's presently the case. And it will be the case for quite a few years to come, even when load shedding events prevail due to excessive daytime temperatures overloading the system.
Right now it would be great if thousands more EVs were around so that wind curtailment wasn't necessary.
And that's aside from how solar PV curtailment is necessary as more capacity is added and the daytime load is not there.

Presently the case, that is the problem. EVs will compromise the grid if they aren't regulated and slowly introduced.

 

[rederob]

I think I would be listening to experts who actually produce the reports that I have presented, people who put their real name to their work.

Many who post here have either claimed that the electrical consumption isn't anything to be concerned about or that it will be fine as the vehicles can recharge in off-peak.

Clearly not the case, much policy requires urgent attention for electric vehicles in Australia.

You are off the mark.
The KPMG Report has a lot of good information backing it.
However, it suffers the same problem that all "forward looking" reports have, in that it relies on assumptions.
As these change, the less reliable will be their conclusions.

 

[rederob]

Presently the case, that is the problem. EVs will compromise the grid if they aren't regulated and slowly introduced.

Ok, that's a few assumptions.
The rate of take-up will not affect the present grid's capabilities for some years, and while the trend gets clearer over time, the energy operators will be adapting to needs. This is already a well-flagged issue.
An unknown right now is the extent to which HEVs affect any forecasts as they would be substantially cheaper to purchase, but lack a necesssarily expensive supporting infrastructure.
The issue of "regulation" is moot. In what sense are you using it?

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Ok, that's a few assumptions.
The rate of take-up will not affect the present grid's capabilities for some years, and while the trend gets clearer over time, the energy operators will be adapting to needs. This is already a well-flagged issue.
The issue of "regulation" is moot. In what sense are you using it?

I am yet to see a government publication that analyses various scenarios for EV uptake. It is all well and wonderful at the moment; however what is the electrical consumption and capacity requirements for an EV uptake of 30% by 2030 for Australia?

The issue of regulation isn't moot, it is necessary. Introduction of EVs has the serious potential to compromise our grid. It is a national security threat and as such must be appropriately acknowledged and mitigated.

I am happy to have a discussion with you provided that it is sensible, rational and the personal remarks and trolling is left at the door.

 

[rederob]

I am yet to see a government publication that analyses various scenarios for EV uptake. It is all well and wonderful at the moment; however what is the electrical consumption and capacity requirements for an EV uptake of 30% by 2030 for Australia?

This demonstrates that it is not an issue you have followed. EV take-up is under constant review (see page 30).

The issue of regulation isn't moot, it is necessary. Introduction of EVs has the serious potential to compromise our grid. It is a national security threat and as such must be appropriately acknowledged and mitigated.

Nope!
It's a matter of ensuring the technical mix of additional energy supply does not crash the grid.
What are you offering?

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

This demonstrates that it is not an issue you have followed. EV take-up is under constant review (see page 30).
Nope!
It's a matter of ensuring the technical mix of additional energy supply does not crash the grid.
What are you offering?

Powerplants aren't built overnight and this is where the problem is. I don't have an issue with private consumer preference of EVs, provided we have the installed capacity, that the grid isn't compromised, and that the taxpayer isn't subsidizing the EVs. I would like to see a full working paper for EV uptake scenarios in Australia.

A great deal of forward planning is required and there will be an enormous amount of regulation and taxes for EVs.

As far as what I am offering for energy mix solutions, well you will probably never know because I am not here to discuss my ideas with you people

 

[Value Collector]

@Value Collector - a question, good sir.
If a Tesla had a flat battery, could you pull alongside and "top them up" enough to make to a charging point?

The NRMA and other road side assistance groups can do that, I will link an article discussing that below.

But given that it’s common practice to start each day with a full battery it’s unlikely you will run out unless you are being pretty reckless.

but even so, the Tesla gives you loads of warnings if you are getting low, and tells you switch off aircon reduce speed etc. And will try and redirect you to a charging location along your route.

Also, you can plug into any power point, so you always top up at your destination or in a parking lot some where if you have done something silly.

https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/930401/nrma-roadside-service-goes-electric/

 

[rederob]

Powerplants aren't built overnight and this is where the problem is.

Wind and solar can add the same capacity as a conventional coal plant in a fraction of the time, so what you think is a problem is incorrect.
The problem lies in integrating additional capacity into the grid.

A great deal of forward planning is required and there will be an enormous amount of regulation and taxes for EVs.

I don't deal with guesses.
AOMO have a reasonable idea of what is necessary into the future.
Given we have had EVs on the road for many years, what regulation and taxes are you talking about?

As far as what I am offering for energy mix solutions, well you will probably never know because I am not here to discuss my ideas with you people

I am happy to sell you my battery charger which draws static electricity from the atmosphere!

 

[Value Collector]

That's presently the case. And it will be the case for quite a few years to come, even when load shedding events prevail due to excessive daytime temperatures overloading the system.
Right now it would be great if thousands more EVs were around so that wind curtailment wasn't necessary.
And that's aside from how solar PV curtailment is necessary as more capacity is added and the daytime load is not there.

Yep, my personal home solar gets curtailed to 5KWH unless I am using electricity at home, due to a 5kWH export limit.

most days my system will produce over that 5 KWH level for 5 hours peaking above 6.5 KWH for about 3 hours.

So having my car start charging during those times takes nothing away from the grid, instead it’s actually taking advantage of energy that would be lost other wise.

 

[SirRumpole]

Given we have had EVs on the road for many years, what regulation and taxes are you talking about?

A tiny proportion of EV's at the moment.

When the numbers start to threaten fuel excise revenue is when you will see regulation and taxes.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yep, my personal home solar gets curtailed to 5KWH unless I am using electricity at home, due to a 5kWH export limit.

most days my system will produce over that 5 KWH level for 5 hours peaking above 6.5 KWH for about 3 hours.

So having my car start charging during those times takes nothing away from the grid, instead it’s actually taking advantage of energy that would be lost other wise.

So does that extra get diverted to hot water heating at that time ?

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Wind and solar can add the same capacity as a conventional coal plant in a fraction of the time, so what you think is a problem is incorrect.
The problem lies in integrating additional capacity into the grid.
I don't deal with guesses.
AOMO have a reasonable idea of what is necessary into the future.
Given we have had EVs on the road for many years, what regulation and taxes are you talking about?
I am happy to sell you my battery charger which draws static electricity from the atmosphere!

CST and offshore wind is still very expensive. The problem with integration is more big batteries required, then we have transmission networks to run lines all over the country. So wind and solar has its problems also.

I don't deal with guesses either; or the mentality that it will be fine.

The regulation will have to limit EV uptake which will be pegged to the additional installed capacity requirements. EV taxes will need to plug the hole from fuel taxes lost.

As for your sales pitch; I am not in the market to buy, I am in the market to sell.

 

[Value Collector]

So does that extra get diverted to hot water heating at that time ?

In my case I have installed a timer to turn on hotwater system at 11am, and my car begins charging at 9.00am, if you don’t do that it is lost.

I will post two photo of my solar graph, one you will see the graph flattens out, that is the limiter kicking in because I wasn’t using anything.

The only photo shows a more rounded bell curve, where production grows much higher, this is because the car is charging and hotwater system kicked on.

blue is production (dark blue export, light blue used at house)

Orange is usage (dark orange import, light orange solar used)

 

[rederob]

CST and Offshore wind is still very expensive. The problem with integration is more big batteries, then we have transmission networks to run lines all over the country. So wind and solar has its problems.

I don't deal with guesses either; or the mentality that it will be fine.

The regulation will have to limit EV uptake which will be pegged to the additional installed capacity requirements. EV taxes will need to plug the hole from fuel taxes lost.

As for your sales pitch; I am not in the market to buy, I am in the market to sell.

I think you have shown us all how far behind the ball you are playing.
WRT to EV "taxes" the simple mechanism is an actual road use charge, and this has been touted for a long time by industry sectors.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

I think you have shown us all how far behind the ball you are playing.
WRT to EV "taxes" the simple mechanism is an actual road use charge, and this has been touted for a long time by industry sectors.

You couldn't even go a few posts without making provocative remarks.

I am many steps ahead of you. I am thinking decades ahead, when you're mental capacity is clearly limited to the present only.

Road use charges are already in place. I think a direct tax on EVs will come in whether you like it or not.

If you disagree with me that is fine, don't get personal or political, that just highlights your immaturity.

 

[rederob]

You couldn't even go a few posts without making provocative remarks.

I am many steps ahead of you. I am thinking decades ahead, when you're mental capacity is clearly limited to the present only.

Road use charges are already in place.

You wonder why others have ridiculed you?
Your understanding of the issues confronting our energy networks is rudimentary at best.

As to taxes, the federal government has no access to State/Territory taxes to offset loss of the fuel excise, but does not need to, as it could simply adjust disbursement of the GST. Your point about tax on road use is not reflected in revenues as there are no per kilometre, zone or corridor specific charging arrangements in place that I am aware.

 

[Value Collector]

EV’s owners do already contribute to road taxes.

1, we all still pay rates to our local councils to fund local roads whether we drive Petrol, EV or take the bus.

2, EV owners still pay registration fees, just like petrol cars.

3, At the moment most EV’s get hit with the luxury vehicle tax, where as a lot of cheaper petrol cars don’t.

—————-
Sure EV owners don’t pay the fuel excise, but that is Just one part of The taxes vehicle owners pay.

Petrol vehicles do however cause a lot of health problems, air pollution causes billions of dollars a year in extra costs to the government, so it’s probably fair enough that EV’s don’t pay quite as much tax.

however as pointed out by others when the times comes the tax system can just make adjustments to include EV’s more.

Taxation is certainly not an argument against EV’s.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

You wonder why others have ridiculed you?
Your understanding of the issues confronting our energy networks is rudimentary at best.

As to taxes, the federal government has no access to State/Territory taxes to offset loss of the fuel excise, but does not need to, as it could simply adjust disbursement of the GST. Your point about tax on road use is not reflected in revenues as there are no per kilometre, zone or corridor specific charging arrangements in place that I am aware.

Personal attacks once again all because I don't agree with you. This is the reason that the discussion and debate gets detailed.

I don't think you fully grasp and understand the scale and magnitude of this issue at hand. I am not upset that you are struggling either because I can't expect too much of you. It is like trying to teach a 1st grade student year 10 maths.
I have found credible reports and I can speak to many engineers, scientists and various professionals to get their opinion.

I don't need to subscribe to your opinion, because your opinion means very little me.