Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 22.1%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 40.0%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 36 18.5%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.3%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.2%
  • Total voters
    195
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SirRumpole said:
Scary thought. Switching on cameras, microphones etc. Has great possibilities for Orwellians.
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I don't work in IT; however I could probably find someone that can do something like it. Not whole countries but a few select devices, haha.

I find IT boring to be honest, I started a network engineering course and didn't like it. I am more interested in Information Management.
 
Smurf1976 said:
Nothing new about that.

The electricity industry has tried to do it since the 1890's and has been reasonably successful since the 1930's.

Airlines, suburban public transport, removalists, freight companies, cinemas, nightclubs, tourist resorts, builders and many others have all done it for a very long time and the basic concept is at the very heart of all markets.

So do petrol retailers in most of Australia's cities via what's known as the price cycle.

The basic concept of trying to make better use of infrastructure or manage stock levels or workload by altering price is well established and nothing new. :2twocents
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And you wouldn’t really have to alter a persons behavior, they will just still plug in when they get home and the find the car charged in the morning, they won’t care that the electricity company picked the exact minute or hour the car began charging.

the is already a charger you can buu called a “Zappi” charger that regulates the cars charging based on your solar production, people that only need the equivalent of 1 tank of petrol a week will be ok with irregular charging patterns if it means they save money or utilize their personal solar more.
 
Here is the Zappi charger I mentioned.

it allows you to control how you want to charge your car.

the Eco+ setting means your car only charges when you have excess solar to send to it.

 
Also don't think the government will just let the fuel taxes vanish if there is a major move to EVs. Electricity is going to become a lot more expensive.

I think we have finished watching Alice In Wonderland; back to reality now.
 
Chronos-Plutus said:
Also don't think the government will just let the fuel taxes vanish if there is a major move to EVs. Electricity is going to become a lot more expensive.

I think we have finished watching Alice In Wonderland; back to reality now.
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The subject of taxes on ev's has been discussed quite a bit in this thread.

I think you are right, new taxes on EV's will be on the way, in fact I think that's why the silence is deafening from this government on the subject of ev's.

Remember Michalea Cash and the ute killing EV's ?


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...l-of-utter-shamelessness-20190409-p51ch8.html
 
SirRumpole said:
The subject of taxes on ev's has been discussed quite a bit in this thread.

I think you are right, new taxes on EV's will be on the way, in fact I think that's why the silence is deafening from this government on the subject of ev's.

Remember Michalea Cash and the ute killing EV's ?


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...l-of-utter-shamelessness-20190409-p51ch8.html
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Not sure if you had time to read the article that I posted from the peak industry body. This is a real beauty:

"KPMG’s Victorian analysis shows if 100 per cent uptake of battery EVs occurs by 2046, total electricity consumption will increase by about 50 per cent. In a scenario where EV drivers are exposed to price incentives to discourage peak charging, the modelling shows required additional generation capacity of 12,669 MW – 120 per cent of existing installed capacity of the Victorian system. In a non-incentivised scenario, an extra 15,513 MW is needed."

Haha, my assumptions aren't so bad after all.

Definitely EV taxes; no way in the world the government are going to leave a massive fuel tax black hole.
 
Value Collector said:
And you wouldn’t really have to alter a persons behavior, they will just still plug in when they get home and the find the car charged in the morning, they won’t care that the electricity company picked the exact minute or hour the car began charging.
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Indeed, it can certainly be made to work.

There's a few different approaches being taken by the industry at present:

Some are going with really cheap pricing at specific times. Red Energy (one of the retail brand names of Snowy Hydro) and Powershop have both used that approach. No change to the metering as such, but you get a really cheap period the times of which are fixed and the intent is that's when you charge the EV. Obviously they'll be collecting data to see what consumers actually do in practice.

AGL tried an "all you can eat" approach. Flat monthly charge for an EV, not charging directly for the electricity as such. So the same concept as mobile phone or broadband internet pricing. As part of that separate metering has been installed.

There's another significant player in the industry (I won't name them since it's not publicly announced but it's a familiar name not a startup company) very much looking at "EV charging as a service" which would work exactly as you describe. You just plug it in, they work out when to charge it but you'll have a "charge now" option at a premium price for atypical usage scenarios.

So quite a few are looking at it yes. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
Indeed, it can certainly be made to work.

There's a few different approaches being taken by the industry at present:

Some are going with really cheap pricing at specific times. Red Energy (one of the retail brand names of Snowy Hydro) and Powershop have both used that approach. No change to the metering as such, but you get a really cheap period the times of which are fixed and the intent is that's when you charge the EV. Obviously they'll be collecting data to see what consumers actually do in practice.

AGL tried an "all you can eat" approach. Flat monthly charge for an EV, not charging directly for the electricity as such. So the same concept as mobile phone or broadband internet pricing. As part of that separate metering has been installed.

There's another significant player in the industry (I won't name them since it's not publicly announced but it's a familiar name not a startup company) very much looking at "EV charging as a service" which would work exactly as you describe. You just plug it in, they work out when to charge it but you'll have a "charge now" option at a premium price for atypical usage scenarios.

So quite a few are looking at it yes. :2twocents
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EVs at the moment are really just little toys that drain significant electricity.

As the KPMG analysts have estimated in Victoria, the serious challenges of electrical capacity are too great for these little toys to be rolled out across Victoria.

When you get the electrical capacity in place, then we can have a proper discussion and start taxing EVs to make up for the fuel tax difference.
 
Chronos-Plutus said:
Not sure if you had time to read the article that I posted from the peak industry body. This is a real beauty:

"KPMG’s Victorian analysis shows if 100 per cent uptake of battery EVs occurs by 2046, total electricity consumption will increase by about 50 per cent. In a scenario where EV drivers are exposed to price incentives to discourage peak charging, the modelling shows required additional generation capacity of 12,669 MW – 120 per cent of existing installed capacity of the Victorian system. In a non-incentivised scenario, an extra 15,513 MW is needed."

Haha, my assumptions aren't so bad after all.

Definitely EV taxes; no way in the world the government are going to leave a massive fuel tax black hole.
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Not saying that the report is bull****, but how do they come to that "incentivised vs unincentivised" figure? And how does 50% more demand need 120% more capacity?

And more capacity in the system can be dealt with by the current infrastructure, at what point does the current infrastructure start to creak & need upgrading?
 
over9k said:
Not saying that the report is bull****, but how do they come to that "incentivised vs unincentivised" figure? And how does 50% more demand need 120% more capacity?

And more capacity in the system can be dealt with by the current infrastructure, at what point does the current infrastructure start to creak & need upgrading?
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Capacity Factor of the windmills :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:.

Remember it was the Victorian government that asked KPMG to do the study! :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

My rough assumptions are not bad considering it only took me a few minutes, haha.
 
over9k said:
Not saying that the report is bull****, but how do they come to that "incentivised vs unincentivised" figure? And how does 50% more demand need 120% more capacity?

And more capacity in the system can be dealt with by the current infrastructure, at what point does the current infrastructure start to creak & need upgrading?
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Mate; I think I would take the word of a team of KPMG analysts, with their report being reviewed and published by the peak energy industry association in Australia ; rather than people that don't know what they are talking about like Smurf, Basilio and Value Collector.

It's over, over9k. I win and my assumptions weren't that bad after all.
 
Chronos-Plutus said:
Mate; I think I would take the word of a team of KPMG analysts, with their report being reviewed and published by the peak energy industry association in Australia ; rather than people that don't know what they are talking about like Smurf, Basilio and Value Collector.

It's over, over9k. I win and my assumptions weren't that bad after all.
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Some of the people you mentioned might know more about what they are talking about than you think.
 
SirRumpole said:
Some of the people you mentioned might know more about what they are talking about than you think.
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Mate, they were pretty rude and nasty to me. When my assumptions weren't that bad from the start.

Validation can be bitch when you're on the wrong side. My assumptions were OK; we are dealing with TWs of electrical capacity and trillions of dollars in the USA for 100% EVs.

In fact why not just use the KPMG figures, which have been reviewed and published by the Australian energy peak association, as rough estimate for other states and nations; just to get a rough idea!
 
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