Electric cars?

[Chronos-Plutus]

But it doesn't have to though dude, you can just use normal hydro/coal/nuclear/geothermal/whatever produced electricity? And then just charge your vehicle overnight? I don't know why you're so hung up on renewables?

The only thing electric vehicles can't currently do is day/road trips and that's just a battery tech thing. Like you said, there's no way they'll build those supercharger stations everywhere (and all the $$$$ infrastructure necessary to power them) when they could just pump the same money into battery R&D and render said supercharger stations redundant.

I'd own an EV no problem at all if the batteries didn't die after ten years (or whatever it is) and need replacing for $lots, and the cars themselves were a lot cheaper obviously.

So we are going to charge/recharge how many batteries to ensure supply of electricity for EVs now? Large scale battery storage from solar and wind farms, home battery storage for roof-top solar, car batteries

There must be a fair bit of electricity lost with all the battery charging.

 

[Value Collector]

I found the other cable, you just unclick the one that’s in the block now and click this one in.

 

[Value Collector]

What about your rooftop solar? Don't you have a home battery?

nope, I don’t have a battery.

 

[moXJO]

How much did the Tesla cost VC?

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

nope, I don’t have a battery.

So you feed back into the grid?

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Where is the QLDFrog? Are we going to finish our exercise?

 

[Value Collector]

It is a way of life. You can choose to run an electric vehicle. I will choose hydrogen.

hydrogen fuel cell cars are electric vehicles, it’s just that they get their electric current via a hydrogen fuel cell rather than a battery.

That’s why I said it’s more efficient to Use your solar to charge a battery directly and only lose 5% in conversion, rather than lose 60% of your electricity converting it to hydrogen and running compressors etc.

ofcourse existing oil companies would rather you have a hydrogen vehicle, because they want to use their natural gas to make the hydrogen, and they want you to attend their fuel stations rather than charge at home.

 

[Value Collector]

So you feed back into the grid?

yep, what ever I don’t use myself I sell for 17cents back to the grid, and at night I purchase for 23 cents.

May the moment that’s cheaper than having a home battery, especially because I can use my car to absorb during the day.

 

[Value Collector]

There must be a fair bit of electricity lost with all the battery charging.

you lose about 5% in battery charging, not much at all compared to other options.

I mean even pumping petrol from one tank to another which happens multiple times between the oil field and the petrol bowser requires energy loss from electric pumps

 

[sptrawler]

Let's take the edge off here for a moment:

Can someone tell me why my whole "plug it into the charging stations in the hotel carpark" scenario won't come to pass? The hotel already has a beefy power connection, so just flick them a few extra bucks, plug it in, and have a fully charged car in the morning?

Same goes for just plugging it into the wall of your house's garage, worst case getting 3 phase electricity installed? Battery tech is already good enough for a commuting, runabout etc car?

I just don't see how much really needs to be done at all if we can get battery tech to the point of being able to do a day trip in one charge.

A lot of the issues will revolve around the ability of the electrical distribution system, to be able to cope with the increased load, most distribution systems were set up years ago so their infrastructure will be probably unsuitable in most cases and require upgrading.
The other aspect on the same issue, will be the ability for cars to not only import electricity, but to also export electricity. The advent of electric cars and house batteries, has in reality turned the suburban electrical distribution system on its head.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

hydrogen fuel cell cars are electric vehicles, it’s just that they get their electric current via a hydrogen fuel cell rather than a battery.

That’s why I said it’s more efficient to Use your solar to charge a battery directly and only lose 5% in conversion, rather than lose 60% of your electricity converting it to hydrogen and running compressors etc.

ofcourse existing oil companies would rather you have a hydrogen vehicle, because they want to use their natural gas to make the hydrogen, and they want you to attend their fuel stations rather than charge at home.

But you don't lose only 5% when charging your battery? Go have a read on the Tesla forums.

Electrolysis conversion 70% to 80% efficiency.

Yes, the hydrogen vehicles overall aren't as efficient as an electric vehicle under certain applications and scenarios. However, as I said; I don't want to be waiting or having to remember to recharge my battery overnight, or having to worry about grid failure. I want to pop into a station, top up the tank in a couple of minutes and be on my way; or I want to have some hydrogen stored in my backyard to refill in an emergency within minutes.

Minutes are crucial in an emergency!

 

[Value Collector]

Don't forget to plug in before you go to bed . You might be late to work, or the kids might be waiting an hour or two to get dropped off or picked up from school.

The average family doesn’t go to the petrol station every day, so they wouldn’t need to charge everyday either, if would matter if you went a few days without charging, however it just becomes a habit to plug in every time you park the car and you will have a full battery every morning, no need to go to then petrol station, unless it’s to inflate tyres and grab a coke.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

https://www.reportlinker.com/market-report/Refined-Products/6828/Hydrogen?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=High_Tech_And_Media&utm_adgroup=Hydrogen_Market_Reports&msclkid=ab53151acda910f2335f4a1780c06e1b&utm_term=+hydrogen +production&utm_content=Hydrogen Market Reports

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

The average family doesn’t go to the petrol station every day, so they wouldn’t need to charge everyday either, if would matter if you went a few days without charging, however it just becomes a habit to plug in every time you park the car and you will have a full battery every morning, no need to go to then petrol station, unless it’s to inflate tyres and grab a coke.

It is an inconvenient way to live; people are going to choose hydrogen fuel cell cars, which are just electric vehicles with a hydrogen fuel tank, if you like.

 

[Value Collector]

But you don't lose only 5% when charging your battery? Go have a read on the Tesla forums.

Electrolysis conversion 70% to 80% efficiency.

Yes, the hydrogen vehicles overall aren't as efficient as an electric vehicle under certain applications and scenarios. However, as I said; I don't want to be waiting or having to remember to recharge my battery overnight, or having to worry about grid failure. I want to pop into a station, top up the tank in a couple of minutes and be on my way; or I want to have some hydrogen stored in my backyard to refill in an emergency within minutes.

Minutes are crucial in an emergency!

Tesla hand book says 8% is lost during charging, I rounded it down to 5% because slow charging doesn’t require the cooling system to operate.

your figures for hydrogen electrolysis don’t include running a compressor to compress the hydrogen into your tank.

Think about all the extra equipment and plumping you need to produce and compress hydrogen, verses just plugging an ev in.

 

[over9k]

View attachment 105960 View attachment 105961 View attachment 105962

here is some photos, I tried to find the 16 amp plug that interchanges with the plug I am using now but I don’t know where I put it, basically it just has a fatter earth plug.

No, the wall charger isn’t a battery, it is just a charger you mount to the wall that can accept higher voltages, you can run a dedicated line to it or you can run 3 phase to it to get 32 amps.

super chargers are fine for the battery, it’s only people that are running their Tesla’s like taxis and supercharging every day That has issues, it even then it’s only slightly reduces the battery capacity, and Tesla have programmed the superchargers to slow the charge a bit on the batteries that have been supercharged a lot.

but they won’t need as many superchargers as we have petrol stations, because 99% of people will charge at home, it’s only road trips you need super chargers.

you can see on the bottom right of the photo my last supercharger session was back in March on a trip to from Brisbane to Sydney, $7.98 pretty cheap haha

I found the other cable, you just unclick the one that’s in the block now and click this one in.

View attachment 105964 View attachment 105965

Yep that's a 15 amp plug. Will obviously charge in 2/3rds the time compared to a normal 10 amp one. Pretty easy to get a 15 amp circuit installed by an electrician

So we are going to charge/recharge how many batteries to ensure supply of electricity for EVs now? Large scale battery storage from solar and wind farms, home battery storage for roof-top solar, car batteries

There must be a fair bit of electricity lost with all the battery charging.

No I mean you just charge the car overnight by plugging it into the wall. Use all existing infrastructure. You just plug it in when you park it in the garage or at the hotel carpark. Done.

Why couldn't we do that?

A lot of the issues will revolve around the ability of the electrical distribution system, to be able to cope with the increased load, most distribution systems were set up years ago so their infrastructure will be probably unsuitable in most cases and require upgrading.
The other aspect on the same issue, will be the ability for cars to not only import electricity, but to also export electricity. The advent of electric cars and house batteries, has in reality turned the suburban electrical distribution system on its head.

Couldn't we just charge in off-peak times? Just like how the internet at the moment is absolutely fine during the day with everyone working from home because it was designed to deal with the peak evening time which is still way above daytime use now?

It is an inconvenient way to live; people are going to choose hydrogen fuel cell cars, which are just electric vehicles with a hydrogen fuel tank, if you like.

How is plugging your car into the wall a big inconvenience?

 

[Value Collector]

It is an inconvenient way to live; people are going to choose hydrogen fuel cell cars, which are just electric vehicles with a hydrogen fuel tank, if you like.

No, it’s actually More inconvenient to have to pull into a service station and spend 10 minutes fueling and paying instead of just spending 10 seconds to plug into your garage.

think about it, if you had a system set up in your garage that slowly filled your car up with petrol every night while you slept, and it was 4 times cheaper than going to the service station, would you actually ever Choose to go to the service station?

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Tesla hand book says 8% is lost during charging, I rounded it down to 5% because slow charging doesn’t require the cooling system to operate.

your figures for hydrogen electrolysis don’t include running a compressor to compress the hydrogen into your tank.

Think about all the extra equipment and plumping you need to produce and compress hydrogen, verses just plugging an ev in.

The average person isn't interested in that. They are interested in saving money, practicality and convenience. That equals ICE vehicles for a very long time. If I had to choose between an electric vehicle or a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle; I choose hydrogen. However I don't even have a car or drive; public transport is adequate for me.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Yep that's a 15 amp plug. Will obviously charge in 2/3rds the time compared to a normal 10 amp one. Pretty easy to get a 15 amp circuit installed by an electrician





No I mean you just charge the car overnight by plugging it into the wall. Use all existing infrastructure. You just plug it in when you park it in the garage or at the hotel carpark. Done.

Why couldn't we do that?


Couldn't we just charge in off-peak times? Just like how the internet at the moment is absolutely fine during the day with everyone working from home because it was designed to deal with the peak evening time which is still way below daytime use now?



How is plugging your car into the wall a big inconvenience?

Mate; owning and driving a car is even an inconvenience for some people. I don't even own a car or drive.

 

[Chronos-Plutus]

Tesla hand book says 8% is lost during charging, I rounded it down to 5% because slow charging doesn’t require the cooling system to operate.

your figures for hydrogen electrolysis don’t include running a compressor to compress the hydrogen into your tank.

Think about all the extra equipment and plumping you need to produce and compress hydrogen, verses just plugging an ev in.

The hydrogen fuel cell automotive industry segment is in its infancy. As I said, in a decade or two, we can't say with any certainty that full EVs will still be around.