ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

Sean K · 3 March 2007

I'm not sure if voting either way really influences the way we live here in Australia.

I am philosphically Liberal, but Labor has slid so far right that I'm not sure of the difference.

It's all a search for the middle vote now. Ideologies have been sacrificed to the Packer/Fairfax/Murdock/Stokes Gods.

(not sure if this is good or bad yet)

Plus, do we really think that we are now in control of our tiny little space in the world? A crappy rumour circulates on the trading room floors in a developing nation causing sound international markets to crumble overnight.....I digress...

Back to Liberal or Labor:

I don't think there is any doubt that if you are a true share trader and/or investor then you are a capitalist and a fundamental Liberal. Stop kidding yourself amd admit it.

Please.

Your false atruism is killing me.

Smurf1976 · 3 March 2007

2020hindsight said:
Initially I thought it was "1 fish - 1 vote" - targetting the intellectuals lol. - then I realised it was "I fish I vote" - completely different!

Looks like they've caught onto "environment versus conservation" too judging by their website. Now there's a debate that dumbfounds most and gets outright anger going real fast if anyone dares mention it.

Smurf1976 · 3 March 2007

kennas said:
Ideologies have been sacrificed to the Packer/Fairfax/Murdock/Stokes Gods.

Worst thing that has ever happened to this country IMO. It's at the point now where major capital city newspapers are refusing to print what is known to be an established fact because it's either too difficult to comprehend or doesn't fit their story. Talk about dumbing down the population.

Julia · 3 March 2007

After the mudslinging engaged in by the Libs this week towards Kevin Rudd about his meetings with Burke, I'm immensely amused to see that one of their own - Campbell- has today had to resign his Cabinet post after being outed for also meeting with said Burke!

Tony Abbott: "Kevin Rudd has been supping with the Devil"!
What will he say about Mr Campbell?

However, no one can say John Howard is indecisive. It seems immediately the engagement between Campbell and Burke became public, Campbell's "resignation" was in.

How did others react to the mud slinging by the Libs this week?
Before then, had an election been held yesterday, I would have voted Liberal, being somewhat ambivalent about Rudd, but following their grubby attacks, I probably would have voted for Kevn Rudd, who at least had the sense to admit an error of judgement.

Julia

Sean K · 3 March 2007

Julia said:
How did others react to the mud slinging by the Libs this week?
Before then, had an election been held yesterday, I would have voted Liberal, being somewhat ambivalent about Rudd, but following their grubby attacks, I probably would have voted for Kevn Rudd, who at least had the sense to admit an error of judgement.
Julia

Hi Julia, long time, no speak....

Do you really think Rudd is Labor?

He's a junior Jonnie, with more foreign policy creds.....

chops_a_must · 4 March 2007

kennas said:
I am philosphically Liberal, but Labor has slid so far right that I'm not sure of the difference.

Back to Liberal or Labor:

I don't think there is any doubt that if you are a true share trader and/or investor then you are a capitalist and a fundamental Liberal. Stop kidding yourself amd admit it.

International actual liberal, or false advertising Australian Liberal?

I think people forget there used to be small "l" liberals (which were more left than current Labor) as well as big "L" Liberals like under Howard. I think one of the worst things that has happened to the country in the last 20 years is Hewson not being elected.

Along the way, somehow, democracy has gone from a vote for the benefit of the whole, to the benefit of the individual.

Kimosabi · 4 March 2007

The best thing Howard did was pay off Government debt.

I don't think the introduction of the GST was such a bad thing to do either, but they need to get rid of State Goverments Stamp Duty/Taxes etc.

Worst Thing - War in Iraq was a mistake.

After Howards comments about Obama and the US Democrats, I'm beginning wonder if he is actually a NeoConservative.

Labour is going to inherit another 'Recession we had to have' due to stock market/housing inflation booms, etc. If it wasn't for the resources boom, we'd already be in recession, WA is going to be particularily hard hit once commodities come off the boil and people start leaving, loosing jobs etc.

Bomba · 4 March 2007

i hate voting .... i hate politicians ... i always donkey vote

Sean K · 4 March 2007

Kimosabi said:
After Howards comments about Obama and the US Democrats, I'm beginning wonder if he is actually a NeoConservative.

Kimo, To tell you the truth, haven't read the comments, but I suspect that this could be true...K

2020hindsight · 4 March 2007

Kennas you make a comment back there "Lib being the natural choice of investors" and adding (?) that "false atruism killing me" (sent to the ether).

I don't think that Labour would be so detrimental to the market. We are after all enjoying some of the plus-es of Labour decisions (the big ones like floating the dollar, tariff reduction etc).

Conversely, If it is a disaster in the wings , then should we be factoring in the possibility (call it 50-50 whatever) of Labour winning end of year? I guess too far out.

Maybe you can use your influence with Joe and get spellcheck here lol, but

Altruism is an interesting word - lovely ethical questions - e.g. in the study of animal behaviour , eg birds, where a "messenger" sacrifices itself to warn the rest of the flock of presence of danger.

An "Altruistic Trader" then is presumably one who would post in here saying "XYZ has been wiped out by a herd of elephants - tomorrow first thing I'm gonna sell XYZ" lol, - only to find the market depth at opening next day heavily loaded with sellers

(it could even be argued that there are two types of posts in here , altruistic or ramping? )

Compare Buddhism with Ayn Rand (If you prefer Ayn Rand to Buddha - that's your choice mate, me I'm interested in living with my conscience first, and getting rich second - but getting off the topic of Lib vs Labour I concede - as perhaps your initial comment was? ) :-
http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Altruistic

Altruism is selfless concern for the welfare of others. It is a traditional virtue in many cultures, and central to many religious traditions. In English, this idea was often described as the Golden rule of ethics. In Buddhism it is considered a fundamental property of human nature.
Altruism can be distinguished from a feeling of loyalty and duty. Altruism focuses on a motivation to help others or a want to do good without reward, while duty focuses on a moral obligation towards a specific individual (for example, a God, a king), a specific organization (for example, a government), or an abstract concept (for example, patriotism etc). Some individuals may feel both altruism and duty, while others may not. Pure altruism is giving without regard to reward or the benefits of recognition.

.........

Philosophers who support egoism have argued that altruism is demeaning to the individual and that no moral obligation to help others actually exists. Nietzsche asserts that altruism is predicated on the assumption that others are more important than one's self and that such a position is degrading and demeaning. He also claims that it was very uncommon for people in Europe to consider the sacrifice of one's own interests for others as virtuous until after the advent of Christianity. Ayn Rand argued that altruism is the willful sacrifice of one's values, and represents the reversal of morality because only rationally selfish ethics allow one to pursue the values required for human life.

2020hindsight · 4 March 2007

I was going to add that pollies had little in common with (the extremes of) Ayn Rand or Buddha these days - then I remembered Brian Burke who seems to have done the impossible - a lot in common with both (see Kauri's photo #347 on Hicks thread).

Also trading posts in here probably come under "mutual altruism" I guess - sharing info for mutual gain.

wayneL · 4 March 2007

2020hindsight said:
Maybe you can use your influence with Joe and get spellcheck here lol,

A slight digression:

Firefox 2.0 has a built in spell checker. It steadfastly refused to acknowledge English/Australian spelling as correct (color - colour etc) and offers no suggestions, it does however highlight mistakes by underlining in red.

Noskcid · 5 March 2007

The Fishing Party aiyyyy!!!!!

ummmmm....

noirua · 12 March 2007

NSW Election, "wikipedia". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_general_election,_2007

News: http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/election/

noirua · 13 March 2007

NSW Opposition Leader: http://www.peterdebnam.com.au

Labor Premier NSW: http://www.morrisiemma.com.au

noirua · 13 March 2007

Up to date information on the NSW Elections from "The Australian": http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/index/0,20671,5006784,00.html

noirua · 16 March 2007

Despite the poll by "the australian" it looks as if Labor are all but home and dry. The Liberals and Co., just do not stand-up.

2020hindsight · 16 March 2007

surely the NSW libs are on a hiding to nothing - big gaff by Debnam choosing a "typical family" as one with 8 investment houses but that in turn will probably make it more difficult for Rudd in 8 months time (imo). who would choose to have the entire country (state and fed) under one party ?

2020hindsight · 16 March 2007

Lol, I forgot the other 60 trading transactions as well !!!
let's face it !! - (many) pollies are a couple of rungs up the ladder from bald-faced lying ... "baddies" lol

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1874031.htm PM 'angry and disappointed' with Santoro
The Prime Minister says his Minister for Ageing, Santo Santoro, had no choice but to resign after failing to disclose dozens of share transactions.

John Howard says he is angry and disappointed Santo Santoro breached disclosure rules in relation to up to 60 share transactions. "This incident is embarrassing, I don't like and I don't mince words, I don't like it at all," Mr Howard said. "This is a very annoying thing to me, I'm angry about it and I'm entitled to feel both annoyed and angry."

He says Senator Santoro had no alternative but to quit after inquiries from the Prime Minister's office sparked the latest revelations about his share holdings. Mr Howard says his Government is not falling apart, despite the resignation of a second minister in a fortnight.

"I don't like incidents like the Santoro one and they're not helpful, but they don't alter the fundamentally competent character of and fundamentally strong, forward-looking direction of the Government," he said.

Senator Santoro has moved to limit the fallout. "We're talking about my judgement, we're not talking about the Prime Minister's judgement," he said.

"You know I tried to do the accounting part of it myself - if I can put it in that way, which of course you know because I focussed on other responsibilities - it's obvious from today that I neglected, but that's no excuse. "It's a matter of fact that I failed in a very considerable extent in my disclosure obligations." Senator Santoro would not reveal the value of the share trades but says there was never a conflict of interest with his portfolio.

"I never made any statements, extended favour, either overtly, covertly or in any other way," he said. The Prime Minister says he will now write to every minister to make sure all of their obligations are in order.

and ? did I hear correctly ? maybe the "charity" he gave the $6K profit to for the initial breach was given to Family Council (into political lobbying etc) whose president (seems) gave him the tip for CBIO in the first place ?!! lol.

http://search.abc.net.au/search/search.cgi?query=santoro&collection=abcnews&form=simple&num_ranks=20 Santoro under fire over new share revelations. 15/03/2007. ABC News Online
Summary: ... Brisbane biotechnology company. Senator Santoro has admitted a technical breach of the ministerial code of conduct. ... It has now been revealed that Family Council president Alan Baker, who is also an investment adviser, offered Senator Santoro the shares in CBIO

Julia · 16 March 2007

2020hindsight said:
Lol, I forgot the other 60 trading transactions as well !!!
let's face it !! - (many) pollies are a couple of rungs up the ladder from bald-faced lying ... "baddies" lol

and ? did I hear correctly ? maybe the "charity" he gave the $6K profit to for the initial breach was given to Family Council (into political lobbying etc) whose president (seems) gave him the tip for CBIO in the first place ?!! lol.

Well, how interesting. Thanks 2020.
I can't begin to imagine how furious John Howard must be with Santoro.
To suggest he has "overlooked" 72 share transactions is beyond belief. What a fool.

Julia

ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

Who do you think will win the next election Labor or Liberal?

Labor (Kevin Rudd)

Liberal (John Howard)

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ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

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VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

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