Either way, we've seen how vile the practices are where one species is shown crammed into a cage, under, above, to the side of neighbouring cages housing totally different animal species. All different animals are lumped together hodgepodge, hosed down (hence the word "wet" in "wet market") with debris overflowing or outflowing into the surrounds. Animals defecate over each other and between the bars of the individual cages, so poos and other dirt from one species spread and contaminate others. Those conclusions wouldn't be a long bow.
Economic implications of a SARS/Coronavirus outbreak
- Thread starter greggles
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It's not the only country with them, just the only one whose national government claimed they were the cause of having stuffed almost every country on earth and which then allowed them to re-open.
China is provoking serious conflict over this one and they couldn't possibly fail to realise that.
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It's not the only country with them, just the only one whose national government claimed they were the cause of having stuffed almost every country on earth and which then allowed them to re-open.
China is provoking serious conflict over this one and they couldn't possibly fail to realise that.
Every reasonable country should refuse to accept visitors from China until those markets are closed down.
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If China say it escaped from the markets, well that is a problem because it is obviously difficult to guarantee it won't happen again.It's not the only country with them, just the only one whose national government claimed they were the cause of having stuffed almost every country on earth and which then allowed them to re-open.
China is provoking serious conflict over this one and they couldn't possibly fail to realise that.
If it escaped from a laboratory, well then that is easier to regulate and put in better safeguards.
So I guess when they finally work out where it originated, the solution will be obvious.
Just my opinion.
Sdajii
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It's pretty clear you've never actually been to a wet market. The often don't even have live animals, and it's pretty common for them to only have live fish. I shopped at them for years for my staples. I'd have been to one today, yesterday and I'd be going to one tomorrow if I wasn't stuck in Australia, I've been to wet markets in several countries in Asia over the last few months, so I'm not sure why you're feeling the need to describe them to me, and since what you're describing sounds like a description of an extreme example you saw on shock value media (and yes, I have been to such places, they do exist).
Bottom line, the vague story is that either 'the market sold infected bats to people' or 'the market mixed bats with pangolins, creating a virus, and that's how people got it'. The story makes no sense though because that species of bat doesn't come from anywhere remotely near that market and the market doesn't sell bats. Plus, people had COVID-19 before COVID-19 first arrived at that market.
It's also worth mentioning that most outbreaks have come from domesticated animals, not wild animals. Swine flu (domestic pigs), bird flu (domestic fowl), MERS (domestic camels), mad cow disease (domestic cattle)... yet a fake story about a wet market which doesn't even sell the type of animal they claim the virus comes from and everyone wants to shut down Chinese wet markets (ignoring the fact that wet markets exist all over Asia, and most certainly won't be going away in a hurry).
Sdajii
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It's not the only country with them, just the only one whose national government claimed they were the cause of having stuffed almost every country on earth and which then allowed them to re-open.
China is provoking serious conflict over this one and they couldn't possibly fail to realise that.
We should indeed hold them accountable, the CCP is absolutely undeniably guilty of many crimes against humanity and this absolutely counts as one of them, but we should focus on where the problem actually comes from and not where the lies of the guilty party point to. Since there is ample evidence to show that the virus didn't actually start at the wet market, our focus shouldn't be on closing down wet markets. That's just a distraction from the real issue.
Sdajii
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Every reasonable country and human being should demand the CCP be held accountable, but focussing on the wet markets is stupid. If I am negligent and allow people to die from poison I'm putting on my land, then cover it up for a while and allow more people to die, then blame my mechanic with a false story about him adding something to my fuel which made the car blow toxic fumes, I shouldn't be forgiven if I dispose of my car!
Should every country boycott every country with wet markets? Or should they just boycott China? Should countries with shared land borders with China such as India, Laos, Vietnam etc also refuse Chinese visitors? I've been to wet markets in these countries.
How does punishing the people of a country for the inaction of its government make sense? If wet markets/poor hygiene are reason for banning visitors from that country, you're going to have a very long list of travel bans, much longer than Trump's proposed list of countries whose citizens were not welcome, which I assume you weren't fond of.
What exactly does closing down wet markets mean anyway? I've been to countless towns and villages where the town wet market is the place where everyone gets their food. You're not going to set up a big Woolworths supermarket out there, and in those villages a wet market is literally the only option. How are people with no other option supposed to have a food market? Perhaps more relevant, why should we tell them they can't have one? Should Europe be banned from having cattle (mad cow disease), the middle east banned from having camels (MERS), should Mexico/North America be banned from having pigs (swine flu)?
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And this focus on the wet market..which is the official CCP explanation is probably pure BS propaganda, even if it was mot engineered ..my view..it comes from a lab
https://www.news.com.au/world/evide...s/news-story/2ad3e982151581735b85aebe5102cf9f
But let's blame the market..you can not sue a bat a snake a pangolin can you, or adopt diplomatic or trade reprisal against animals
https://www.news.com.au/world/evide...s/news-story/2ad3e982151581735b85aebe5102cf9f
But let's blame the market..you can not sue a bat a snake a pangolin can you, or adopt diplomatic or trade reprisal against animals
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Yes.
It doesn't really matter whether I've been or not, and I wasn't talking about fish markets and those that deal only in fish which is what you seem to be partial to.
I didn't even mention bats. But there has been research showing that the virus most likely originated from an animal. Maybe the genes were tinkered with at some time afterwards; I don't know. But wasn't the point. We're talking about the practices of keeping and selling exotic meats. Who knows, maybe there was no first instance in a wet market but was propagated there anyway. It doesn't matter.
Funny how when someone is disgruntled about unbiased reports of goings-on in their neck of the woods, they feel the need to label it as "fake news", just like the Chinese ambassador to Australia who came on Q&A to label the Uyghur situation "fake news".
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@hja, so why is everyone swallowing whole the official CCP story of originating from a wet market?
The labs where this most probably originated is where the focus should be, yes people meet there so it was a propagation area but not the cause,
Should we blame the cruise carriers as the cause of the virus, ban them..instead of China
Well it seems many are unable to go to the root
And more politically correct for the ccp minions, or even just leftist minded you can enroll with a few pictures of skinned animals...with a disclaimer of course for sensitive snowflakes.
I do not support the sale of endangered species for meat or otherwise..like in africa BTW..bush meat..
But covid-19 has nothing to do with these market..
Once again, China has won...
Why is the west so dumb when dealing with the rise of China.Trump with all his orange hair is the only one i remember having even started to face the threat
Sdajii
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The display of naivety and insanity required to say this is extreme.
Sdajii
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It matters because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about yet feel inclined to not only have an opinion about something you have no concept of, but you feel that this unfounded opinion should be pushed on others. The majority of wet markets contain a variety of fruits and vegetables, fish (often live), chicken (often live), pork (occasionally live), insects, prawns etc. The smaller and poorer the towns and villages, the more often you see things like reptiles, snails, frogs, squirrels, bats, rats, game birds, civets, etc. If you're in a remote village where many people eat mainly bamboo and rice and are lucky to catch a few insects and wild animals to supplement their diets, you can hardly blame them for wanting to eat something else. If I dumped you into a remote area for a few months where you were forced on to a diet of little more than bamboo and rice, you'd be pretty angry if I told you that you weren't allowed to eat any of the animals you occasionally manage to obtain. It's a world you clearly have no idea about, and I guarantee that if you spent years in that environment like I have you would have a completely different way of seeing things. I would love to watch you struggle to cope in the first few weeks as you came to terms with the realities you were faced with, and with a comfortable armchair expert attitude, you'd totally deserve it.
And the sky is blue and water gets things wet.
It does matter, it's literally the entire point about the discussion in relation to wet markets! If you think they have nothing to do with the virus (and for this virus, they don't) then you agree it's an entirely unrelated issue which we should not be discussing in terms of this virus outbreak. If you think it's an animal welfare issue that's a separate issue, perhaps with some validity, but as someone who clearly demonstrates you have absolutely no concept of what wet markets are like, you have no reason to have a say in it. To have a valid opinion you first need something to base it on. In any case, as an irrelevant (even if important) topic, it shouldn't be discussed here.
Who is the person disgruntled about unbiased reports you are referring to?
I have something more than an idea just like you. And I have an opinion that just doesn't coincide with the one your spouting here. But like the next person, I'm perfectly capable of keeping abreast with what the score is now, having access to the same sources as you whether its footage, eyewitness accounts, etc. So don't give me the holier than thou speech because you think your circumstance is "privileged".
Let's not play with terminology. We're talking about markets whether they're wet or dry (this doesn't matter) that are home to exotic, jungle, wildlife beasts in proximity to other animals and people.
Yeah well everyone has an opinion just as each has an exhaust orifice. You're no different and are holding a flame precariously close it. So too bad if you're disgruntled or worked up about "wet", but I'm not naive to have some concept of what wet is dealing with. I'm aware it's the watering down of surfaces epsecially where meat has been cut/prepared and there's the strong implication of rampant cross-contamination.
You're one to talk; did you just turn on your computer or device since last month?
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/apr/16/what-is-a-wet-market-coronavirus
...
The now-infamous Wuhan South China seafood market, suspected to be a primary source for spreading Covid-19 in late 2019, had a wild animal section where live and slaughtered species were for sale, including snakes, beavers, badgers, civet cats, foxes, peacocks and porcupines among other animals.
The Wuhan market was closed in January and the Chinese authorities placed a temporary ban on all trade in wildlife. But according to recent news reports, some wildlife markets in southern China have reopened amid the pandemic, selling dogs, cats, bats, lizards and scorpions among other species.
Many Chinese continue to believe in the health benefits of consuming meat from wild animals. Two leading Hong Kong microbiologists, Professor Yuen Kwok-yung and Dr David Lung, last month condemned the continuing practice of consuming wild game, warning that “Sars 3.0” could materialise if people do not refrain from eating wild animals.
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Reading through recent comments I sense that there is an underlying message from all, that we need to make China accountable for the virus, however it was caused. How do we do we make them accountable??
The cause of the existence of the virus would be clouded (probably deliberately) and at one point blamed on as a 'natural occurrence'. This then would remove the blame from the community/nation. Was That Wet Market in particular set up as a red herring (natural cause) to hide the root cause, who knows? The wet market being reopened seems to undo the belief or excuse that the market is the root cause, due to other facts, that has exposed the 'red herring'.
Then of course people can be justified in their annoyance that that particular wet market has reopened, without the root cause being discovered.
Where China needs to be held accountable are the actions that were selectively not taken to spread the virus elsewhere. An example (apparently) China closing internal travel in China while allowing international travel. (I see something along those line claimed by Peter Dutton, who is not my favourite politician).
The cause of the existence of the virus would be clouded (probably deliberately) and at one point blamed on as a 'natural occurrence'. This then would remove the blame from the community/nation. Was That Wet Market in particular set up as a red herring (natural cause) to hide the root cause, who knows? The wet market being reopened seems to undo the belief or excuse that the market is the root cause, due to other facts, that has exposed the 'red herring'.
Then of course people can be justified in their annoyance that that particular wet market has reopened, without the root cause being discovered.
Where China needs to be held accountable are the actions that were selectively not taken to spread the virus elsewhere. An example (apparently) China closing internal travel in China while allowing international travel. (I see something along those line claimed by Peter Dutton, who is not my favourite politician).
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I have highlighted just one word so you can understand, "suspected".
Proof of evidence prevails.
Do you have any proof, that this virus emanated from the wet markets?
Address facts not hearsay, it helps with the discussion.
Country Lad
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Regardless of whether it was engineered or was been researched in a lab, the outcome is the same, China is culpable.
Lets just say it did come from a lab, we have a couple of scenarios that are plausable.
1. They engineered it
1a. They were sloppy and the virus shows the necessary traits of being engineered. Highly unlikely, the Chinese are toooooo smart
1b. They are very clever and can engineer a virus and no known method of science can determine that it was engineered, plausible maybe, not an expect in the field
2. They were researching viruses that could potentially jump from animals to humans.
2a. Make sense, defending against potential/future pandemics. Getting a head of the curve.
2b. They manage in the name of research to get a virus to infect human cells, thus jumping in the name of research, more than likely
I hope for humanity, that it is option 2 and it accidentally escape from so called secure facilities.
There is an option 3, whether it was option 1 or 2, they found a virus and unleashed onto the world. They are many valid reasons why they might have done this, world domination a little bit over the top, agro at Tumpy, maybe.
Regardless, until it can be proven either way, it is all speculation.
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How come we haven't had a massive financial disruption as a consequence of the virtual closure of the major world economies./ ? Just good luck perhaps ?
Not at all. This is a Long Read but given the focus of ASF on financial issues well worth the effort.
How coronavirus almost brought down the global financial system
Illustration: Peter Reynolds
The crisis has brought the economy to a near halt, and left millions of people out of work. But thanks to intervention on an unprecedented scale, a full-scale meltdown has been averted – for now. By Adam Tooze
In the third week of March, while most of our minds were fixed on surging coronavirus death rates and the apocalyptic scenes in hospital wards, global financial markets came as close to a collapse as they have since September 2008. The price of shares in the world’s major corporations plunged. The value of the dollar surged against every currency in the world, squeezing debtors everywhere from Indonesia to Mexico. Trillion-dollar markets for government debt, the basic foundation of the financial system, lurched up and down in terror-stricken cycles.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...most-brought-down-the-global-financial-system
Not at all. This is a Long Read but given the focus of ASF on financial issues well worth the effort.
How coronavirus almost brought down the global financial system
Illustration: Peter Reynolds
The crisis has brought the economy to a near halt, and left millions of people out of work. But thanks to intervention on an unprecedented scale, a full-scale meltdown has been averted – for now. By Adam Tooze
In the third week of March, while most of our minds were fixed on surging coronavirus death rates and the apocalyptic scenes in hospital wards, global financial markets came as close to a collapse as they have since September 2008. The price of shares in the world’s major corporations plunged. The value of the dollar surged against every currency in the world, squeezing debtors everywhere from Indonesia to Mexico. Trillion-dollar markets for government debt, the basic foundation of the financial system, lurched up and down in terror-stricken cycles.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...most-brought-down-the-global-financial-system
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