David Hicks protests

[2020hindsight]

rederob, lol, makes about as much sense as his charges. (apparently the charge says he got to stand guard beside a Taliban tank - wow bigdeal - almost certainly bought with US finance ??)

whilst on the subject of US credibility... reminds me...
Superman arrives in a rocket wrapped in a bedcloth, to defend "peace, truth, and the American way".
His adopted mum stitches it into his suit using mere earthly thread.
So how come the thread doesn't burn up when he does all his superhero stuff?
You get so many rumours from Hollywood etc you start to lose track of what's credible and what isn't.

Hopefully Mori gets a chance to fully cross-examine the source of second- and third-hand hearsay against him (although Moe Davis implied he wouldn't have to disclose these sources and presumably these "paths")

 

[greggy]

rederob, lol, makes about as much sense as his charges. (apparently the charge says he got to stand guard beside a Taliban tank - wow bigdeal - almost certainly bought with USD ??)

whilst on the subject of US credibility... reminds me...
Superman arrives in a rocket wrapped in a bedcloth, to defend "peace, truth, and the American way".
His adopted mum stitches it into his suit using mere earthly thread.
So how come the thread doesn't burn up when he does all his superhero stuff?
You get so many rumours from Hollywood etc you start to lose track of what's credible and what isn't.

Hopefully Mori gets a chance to fully cross-examine the source of second- and third-hand hearsay against him (although Moe Davis implied he wouldn't have to disclose these sources and presumably these "paths")

It has always surprised me how foolish Mr Hicks was to get caught up in a situation like this (Also, for Mr Bush getting involved in Iraq thinking that it was going to be an easy victory). But just the same, my concern for Mr Hicks is that the delays have been utterly ridiculous and Mr Howard, for whom I voted at the last federal election as Mr Latham was clearly unfit for office, just take a look at his book, should have used his apparent clout with the US to solve the David Hicks issue much earlier on. The sooner he gets natural justice the better.

 

[2020hindsight]

this is a couple of weeks old, and maybe Howard has at last got his suit on, but it's not off topic imo. I mean, I still think Hicks case has the potential to cause major swing against govt
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2007/s1856323.htm

I notice also that Hicks defence team are still pursueing the option of UK citizenship - lol - what a slap in the face that would be to Canberra. Can't see them letting that one go through

 

[greggy]

this is a couple of weeks old, and maybe Howard has at last got his suit on, but it's not off topic imo. I mean, I still think Hicks case has the potential to cause major swing against govt
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2007/s1856323.htm

I notice also that Hicks defence team are stil pursueing the option of UK citizenship - lol - what a slap in the face that would be to Canberra. Can't see them letting that one go through

I reckon that Mr Howard will finally speed up the process so as to nullify the issue by election time. He's a very canny politician.

 

[nizar]

Its tragic whats happening to David Hicks.
Just tragic.
5 years on no charge.

Why is it we just have to always follow those Yanks and their procedures??

Of course now there will have to be a charge on him, so they dont look like idiots.

So what do they do to find this charge?
They torture the f&#k out of other prisoners until they say something, something made up, of course, since they want to survive.
Like that guy that wrote a 148-page document about David Hicks for the US government and then got released from Guanatamo Bay recently on no charge. It was in the Age last week.

What a disgrace.

 

[2020hindsight]

Like that guy that wrote a 148-page document about David Hicks for the US government and then got released from Guanatamo Bay recently on no charge. It was in the Age last week.

Lol, or the one where the pom confessed just to get out of torture, - finally got home to UK - the British MI5 went on to prove that what the USA was saying was impossible because of a cast-iron alibi, different country at the time etc.
Imagine that, actual British taxpayers money being used to defend a British citizen againt the fabricated slurs put out by the USA. Can you imagine Canberra doing that? sickening - just sickening.

You may recall Brockie asking Ruddock the same thing - he sidestepped, finally saying "I would have thought that Hicks would like to go through with the trial - since the nice Americans are giving him the opportunity to clear his name" (paraphrasing) lol. joke joyce.

(personally I find myself comparing all this hoo-har about Rudd meeting Bourke (on the one hand) - with the Hicks question, and I personally find it an easy call to make - but others might disagree I guess).

 

[Kauri]

(personally I find myself comparing all this hoo-har about Rudd meeting Bourke (on the one hand) - with the Hicks question , and I personally find it an easy call to make - but others might disagree I guess).

If you happened to be in the same suburb you could hardly miss him...

 

[nioka]

If Hicks gave support to the terrorists by guarding one of their tanks and this is such a terrible crime then why aren't the American polititions who supplied the tank in prison along with Hicks?

 

[Julia]

Its tragic whats happening to David Hicks.
Just tragic.
5 years on no charge.

Why is it we just have to always follow those Yanks and their procedures??

Of course now there will have to be a charge on him, so they dont look like idiots.

So what do they do to find this charge?
They torture the f&#k out of other prisoners until they say something, something made up, of course, since they want to survive.
Like that guy that wrote a 148-page document about David Hicks for the US government and then got released from Guanatamo Bay recently on no charge. It was in the Age last week.

What a disgrace.

I agree that it's a disgrace that anyone should be held for over five years without charge.

However, aren't you being just a bit unrealistic in not acknowledging that Hicks did train with Al Quaeda whose clearly stated aim is to do harm to Australia amongst other Western nations?
It's not exactly as though he was over in the Middle East as a member of the Boy Scouts, or even just a tourist. He was there with the stated aim of participating in harm towards western nations, his own country amongst them.

Julia

 

[rederob]

I agree that it's a disgrace that anyone should be held for over five years without charge.

However, aren't you being just a bit unrealistic in not acknowledging that Hicks did train with Al Quaeda whose clearly stated aim is to do harm to Australia amongst other Western nations?
It's not exactly as though he was over in the Middle East as a member of the Boy Scouts, or even just a tourist. He was there with the stated aim of participating in harm towards western nations, his own country amongst them.

Julia

Julia
apart from the "Boy Scouts" bit, how much of what you said do you "know" is accurate?

 

[Out Too Soon]

This is the first time I've commented on Hicks.
His incarceration without charge is wrong (an embarrassment to "the land of the free" lol) but there are A LOT of MUCH more worthy causes to support than Hicks.
I feel real sorry for his dad not him.

You want to protest, how about political prisoners in China or people escaping persecution in Papua or Sudan etc being illegally detained offshore by Australia (another "land of the free").

The Hypocrisy of our western govts gos on & on!

 

[nizar]

I agree that it's a disgrace that anyone should be held for over five years without charge.

However, aren't you being just a bit unrealistic in not acknowledging that Hicks did train with Al Quaeda whose clearly stated aim is to do harm to Australia amongst other Western nations?
It's not exactly as though he was over in the Middle East as a member of the Boy Scouts, or even just a tourist. He was there with the stated aim of participating in harm towards western nations, his own country amongst them.

Julia

LOL do you know how many innocent people america, australia and other "western nations" have killed?
When will Bush go on trial for war crimes??
Seriously.

 

[numbercruncher]

LOL do you know how many innocent people america, australia and other "western nations" have killed?

I dont know the answer to this, do you?

And how many innocent people have non-Western nations killed?

If we add up how many innocent people have been killed by non-western nations vs killed by Western nations, will that show us who is more evil or who is less evil?

All i see is a cycle of tit for tat violence and hatred that will surely go on for eternity or until the big bang, i remember reading a statistic that in the last like 2000 years there has been no more than 3 years total peace across the planet, scary hey?

One would have to assume that War is mankinds natural state of being, I think that Multi-Racial societies are mankinds destiny but i fail to see how multi-culturalism (let alone globilisation) is ever truly going to find the status quo.


May Peace be with You.

 

[2020hindsight]

I guess this is what Mori gets for winning the TV debate about Hicks on Insight the other week (in which Moe Davis also had his say). Talk about a loaded system. I would guess that the delay would not be what Howard wants, not that this 6th year is any different to the other 5 really - with the exception of that little word "election".

Howard :- "we are very angry that it's taken so long," he said. "I share the views of millions of Australians that justice delayed is justice denied."

I wonder what John Howard means when he says, "justice delayed is justice denied".? It has been delayed. And Hicks has been denied justice. I would have thought that that old saying was unambiguous - under these circumstances, it is impossible for justice to be resurrected. Like - all over red rover, too late for band-aids.

- especially too late if all they are offering are fake trials with custom- designed military commissions using retrospective rules, and shoddy evidence, and torture chambers. -and now even objecting to the defence lawyer (who didnt play the game and roll over, now may be removed)

I also wonder what Howard meant when he said "the Government would not view another significant delay in the Hicks case as acceptable". I think he went on to say " I won't add any more" implying that there was more to tell. Is he on the red phone asking for Mori not to be sacked,- reason? I mean the real reason? (after 5 years) - maybe because it will have electoral implications for him?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1862642.htm
Hicks's lawyer faces removal from case. The defence lawyer for Guantanamo Bay detainee David Hicks says he may be removed from the case - a move that would delay proceedings again. The US military's chief prosecutor has threatened to charged Hicks's lawyer, Major Michael Mori, under the US code of military justice.

Major Mori has been accused of breaching Article 88 of the US military code. It prohibits contemptuous language against the President, the Vice-President, Secretary of State and Congress.

Major Mori has told ABC Radio's AM program that Hicks will need to seek independent advice about the future of his case. "When the prosecutor uses this tactic of using criminal charges against someone's lawyer, it really could lead to that lawyer having been removed from the case because there's a potential conflict - is the lawyer acting in the best interests of David, in this case, or am I acting in the best interests for myself," he said.

"That's something that David has to be advised on, most likely from a lawyer that's not involved at all in this case." Major Mori says the threat is serious and could have consequences for his client. "It will involve other people to weigh in and unfortunately it's not going to be a speedy thing to get David another lawyer down at Guantanamo," he said. "It's going to be difficult to accomplish this just before the first hearing in 30 days, and may cause a roadblock to that happening - it's very hard to predict."

Howard's view. Prime Minister John Howard says the Government would not view another significant delay in the Hicks case as acceptable. But Mr Howard has told Channel Nine Major Mori's future is an issue for the United States.

"I am not going to interfere in anything that's happening in the United States, except to repeat that we are very angry that it's taken so long," he said. "I share the views of millions of Australians that justice delayed is justice denied."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1862885.htm

Govt must defend Mori, Opposition says
Shadow Attorney-General Kelvin Thomson wants the Federal Government to raise issues about the conduct of David Hicks's defence team with authorities in the United States. The US military's chief prosecutor has questioned Major Michael Mori's lobbying on behalf of his client.

Major Mori says he could be removed from the case, which would further delay proceedings. Mr Thomson says the Government should defend Major Mori's handling of the case. "The Howard Government must now go to the US authorities and say, at the very least, that Major Mori should not be taken off the case," he said. "[The Government] should also say that it has now lost confidence in the legal process at Guantanamo Bay and that David Hicks should now be removed from there to face a US court or an Australian court."

 

[Bobby]

Julia
apart from the "Boy Scouts" bit, how much of what you said do you "know" is accurate?

Now Rob whats accurate?
Your opinion.

You & I don't know the full details of whats what, your ideas are yours as Julia's are hers.

Have you been a naughty boy ? If you feel you have, you can redeem yourself, just say so to Julia.

Regards
Bob.

 

[Julia]

Julia
apart from the "Boy Scouts" bit, how much of what you said do you "know" is accurate?

Rob,
I don't know any more than anyone else does.
I am simply quoting what his own father said in an interview I heard.
That would appear to be the closest thing to an accurate source we have available. It has also been widely reported that he has admitted being happy about 9/11, and before you jump on me for that comment, no I don't necessarily place any credence on that when we have no means of knowing what coercion may have been used to extract such an admission.

I'm just getting a little tired of hearing him discussed as some unwitting innocent who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to resort to the old cliche.




What do you think he was doing over there, Rob?

Julia

 

[Julia]

LOL do you know how many innocent people america, australia and other "western nations" have killed?
When will Bush go on trial for war crimes??
Seriously.

I have no idea and I don't imagine you have either.
That has absolutely nothing to do with my comment about Hicks.
For what it's worth, I regard Bush et al as probably the worst thing to happen to our world in my lifetime, and would never defend anything they have done, nor would I hold our present government in anything but the lowest regard for following Bush and taking Australia into the mess that is Iraq.
So my remarks about Hicks are simply an attempt to bring some balance to those who would see him as some sort of martyr to I don't know what, and absolutely not a reflection of my approval of our government's handling of his situation.

Julia

 

[2020hindsight]

Julia , here's a story about a man also held for 5 years in Guantanamo. and what's the bottom line ?
"US authorities set him free after finding no evidence he had links to Islamic militants"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1863712.htm Former Guantanamo inmate describes interrogations. By Peter Lloyd

A Bangladeshi man held for five years at Guantanamo Bay says guards desecrated the Koran during interrogations, claims that echo allegations made by other former detainees. Mubarak Hussan bin Abul Hasin was arrested in Pakistan after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the US and then flown by the US military to Guantanamo Bay.

The son of a Muslim cleric, Mr Mubarak said he had gone to the city of Peshawar to study at a Madrassa. During his confinement, he claimed guards kicked the Koran and threw it in the toilet.

Mr Mubarak also said he received electric shocks, was deprived of food and subjected to cold temperatures. US authorities set him free after finding no evidence he had links to Islamic militants.

On the one hand, anyone who defends these suspects is blackballed by big business in USA - and/or kicked out of the military (if they are successful). On the other hand, they admit after 5 years of torture/abuse, "he was innocent all along".

 

[billhill]

The bottom line in this whole hicks case regardless of what he did is that he broke no law of the time. What kind of precedent does it set if we backdate laws. The government could turn around tomorrow and outlaw trading on the stock exchange. Then they could backdate the law and everyone on this forum could be put in jail. What the hicks case demonstrates is the amount of power and rights we have willingly handed to our leaders. And what our leaders have shown is what we've known all along, we can't trust them with this sort of power.

 

[carmo]

No fan of Hick's, but I could not beleive it when the 60 minutes team wanted to see him, they were told it would be a violation of his rights.